[The Fantasist]

I thought it might be good to have a discussion about which country is best for guys like us. I bring the subject up because I see so many topics and threads about the Ukraine but hardly any about the other two. I presume that the primary reason is the lack of visa issues with the Ukraine and hence it's popularity. Would that be why most people consider the place above the others?

Personally I rate the countries in this order:
1st: Russia
2nd Ukraine
3rd Belarus

I rate Russia as the best as I have found on my trips there that the women are the most open and DTF,I do best there by far. It's still quite easy to go to towns where foreigners have not been before in any kind of numbers ( I mean almost zero ). Up in places like the north of Komi Republic,Tuva,Kamchatka etc. it's virgin territory for us except for the lone old aged internet bride hunter who has travelled out to meet his future spouse ( I've met them in the strangest of places ). This has always helped me I believe. You can still have crowds form around you asking questions just because you're foreign,I never had that in Ukr/Bel. Russian Slavic women I have also felt are the most westernised in their outlook and hence the easiest to talk to,they can be quite ballsy which I quite like. No doubt though that Russia is more expensive then the other two countries but not significantly so outside of the major cities ( Moscow can kill anyone's wallet if you live it up ). It's still cheaper then back home in our own countries and much so in the smaller towns.

Looks wise I would say maybe Ukraine comes out tops but that is in part due to the fact that Russia has so many non Slav races that it dilutes the quality somewhat. However if you just take a Ukrainian Slav and sit her next to a Russian Slav there is no difference in my experience. Belarusian women as I mentioned before are the least attractive imo but I strongly believe it's due to the lack of fashion and make up skills not because of poorer genes.

The Rus/Bel visa no doubt puts people off but there is no need for it to. Both are equally as easy to get if you use an agency to do everything for you. Just pay 150 EUR max and get a one month visa for either country with no pre booking of accommodation needed. You can stay in Russia for 180 days a year ( in two chunks of 90 days ) or Belarus for 90 which is enough for most of us.

Belarus is hard to categorise because you need to split in half down the middle in terms of game because the eastern half is so difficult compared to the western half. But overall due to the conservative mindset prevailing it is much harder then Rus/Ukr. It also has very little of interest away from game. No coast,no mountains,no happening towns outside of Minsk. It is certainly the safest of the three though if that is something you take into account on your travels.

So what are people's opinions on their favourite country of the three and why do so many choose the Ukraine above the others?

[Deb Auchery]

I always imagined that Russians were hotter than Ukrainians, but I haven't made it to Russia as yet. Maybe those who have been to both places would like to give their opinion, Kamaki perhaps?

As for Belarus, I was disappointed with the browsing i did on mamba/vk, but if the foreigner status Is suitably high then one could solely concentrate on top tier.

[Richie]

With Russia isn't our biggest stumbling block still the language barrier? I feel like its the only thing really putting players off going there.
Vorkuta - where would you recommend a newbie go to in Russia for the first time? Are SNLs possible with above average girls? I dont think this is possible in Ukraine.

[Deb Auchery]

People told me not to go to Ukraine because.I didn't speak the language, good.job I'm so pig headed sometimes.

Russia.really only has two.main cities, especially for the time limited tourist.

I have found Ukraine very good for SNL especially Kiev where girls.go out to drink and Fuck, much the same as English girls, but.higher quality of course.

[The Fantasist]

Richie: I think language is the biggest stumbling block in all three countries tbh. Having said that I usually find girls even in out of the way places that speak enough English for us to have simple conversations or needing me to become a mime artist.

As an aside I don't know if anyone does this but I learnt a lot of my Russian from my Belarusian LTR which means that I have to remind myself not to speak as she did with girls as it's too effeminate. I am constantly saying things like 'moi zhivotik balet' instead of 'zhivot' which is so un-alpha. Or instead of 'chort' for example I always say 'blin'. I've been told by a few girls laughingly that it sounds wrong for a big lump like me to speak like that : )

For a newbie I'd say stick to places like Moscow or Peter on a first trip where you will find plenty of English speakers to ease you into it. Then as you have picked up a few words and maybe taken an online course in Russian for a couple of months,return and head off into the wilds. SNL in my experience are not common,I've had them but I usually have to have a couple of dates to get laid. Truth be told though,I'm a little different to many members here in that I'm not too bothered about banging quickly so I don't push hard. I like meeting Russian women,building a little intimacy over a couple of dates and then closing the deal. If I went to more clubs and didn't rely pretty much solely on day game I'd definitely have more SNL's I think.

[Greek kamaki]

Russia:The best place however Russian police and local flatheads combined with bureocracy can cause problems.Also more expensive than the rest due to higher value of Russian ruble.
Ukraine:Very good like Russia without the harassment but appearance level of women is lower(maybe due to malnutrition)
Blarus:Very interesting place however women there are more shy and closed than Russian and Ukrainian women.Belarus is for the experenced FSU hunter it is not for newbie.

[Richie]

Bugger all this 2nd tier nonsense then. Im going to Moscow and Kiev


I'm with you on the SNL thing Vorkuta but if I only have a limited amount of time in a place... ie a week then I cant afford to date girls. I'm not sure I am prepared to spend a lengthly amount of time in these countries - we shall see. I spent a month in Poland and only slept with 2 girls. They were both very high quality and it took me that long to date and sleep with them.

[Blunt]

Russia is nice, but the visa thing is a bit of a pain. If you're at home and you want to get the visa, its not a big deal but it is difficult if not impossible to get the visa while abroad.

Most of my experience in Russia has been in 2nd/3rd tier cities, they definitely are not for an FSU newbie unless you are a sadist. I don't regret it, but I would advise that you study Russian for 3 months, 1 hour a day at least before attempting to go beyond Peter or Moscow.

You can find girls that speak English in Russia anywhere, but in my experience, the smaller the city the more likely the girl is going to be nerdy, unattractive, or annoying. That is the trend anyways, but there are certainly exceptions that ended up being girlfriends. The most attractive girls are usually the ones that never gave a fuck about learning English because they have it relatively made already, even in a shithole.

I'm considering going to Ukraine soon, possibly Belarus if I can get the visa so I'll try and post how they compare.

[Deb Auchery]

It could be best to visit the EE countries that Pierre Woodman pillaged during the 90's, from.looking at his video collection(a few thousand times) he most worked in Hungary, Slovakia, Ukraine, Russia etc.

Although these places are not the puss paradise they were in the 90s, budget airlines and the internet.have had a.negative effect.

That guy probably knows.more.than anyone about banging EE sluts

[slubu]

I've been to Russia for a week (Moscow/Peter) and Belarus (Minsk) for a night. From that limited experience, Russian girls completely blew away the girls in Minsk in terms of looks. Even Polish girls (Warsaw/Krakow) were better than Minsk girls.

I've actually never seen the quality that I saw in Russia, anywhere..ever. But I have not been to Serbia, Ukraine, Slovakia, etc..

[The Fantasist]

(05-12-2012 12:53 PM)Richie Wrote:  

I spent a month in Poland and only slept with 2 girls. They were both very high quality and it took me that long to date and sleep with them.

No shame in those numbers at all Richie if they are high quality girls,it's an accomplishment. Quality over quantity for me every time. Would rather bang a couple of 9's a month then ten 7's tbh.

[oldnemesis]

I don't think it makes sense to discuss the countries.
Moscow is very different from Suzdal.
Lviv is different from Kiev.
Brest is different from Minsk.
You need to be more specific.

[The Fantasist]

(05-12-2012 05:19 PM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

I don't think it makes sense to discuss the countries.
Moscow is very different from Suzdal.
Lviv is different from Kiev.
Brest is different from Minsk.
You need to be more specific.

Oldnem cheers for your input,was hoping you would join in.

Do you mean a better thread would be something like comparing second tier towns in the three countries as opposed to the three countries as a whole? I think that is a good point.

I do have something I've been meaning to ask you: what do you think of Ukrainian women? I know you like it in Asia and prefer the women over there but I was wondering if you see the same things in Ukrainian women that us non Salvs do. Or due to proximity do you not get turned on by them at all and don't see what all the fuss is about and why so many of us head there? Would be interesting to hear a Ukrainian's perspective.

[oldnemesis]

(05-12-2012 05:41 PM)Vorkuta Wrote:  

Do you mean a better thread would be something like comparing second tier towns in the three countries as opposed to the three countries as a whole? I think that is a good point.

No, my point was more about that Russia is so huge and diverse that saying "I scored in Russia" is meaningless. It would be like "I scored in South America". It indeed makes more sense to compare the cities, or at least the regions.

Quote:

I do have something I've been meaning to ask you: what do you think of Ukrainian women? I know you like it in Asia and prefer the women over there but I was wondering if you see the same things in Ukrainian women that us non Salvs do. Or due to proximity do you not get turned on by them at all and don't see what all the fuss is about and why so many of us head there?

Little interest overall. I only have the surge to go for them when I'm visiting Ukraine and coming directly from the States - this remains me how the women look like - but it fades away after 3-4 days. I've been quite successful there in past, so there is little incentive. Yes, they're attractive, and yes, once you have been with a few hundreds of them you'll start recognizing their similar traits, and will be annoyed by them. But this probably happens everywhere. They do make good wives though.

[BTman]

I have been to Russia(Moscow/St. Pete)and Ukraine(Kiev) and in my opinion Russia hands down wins. The thing about Ukraine is that there are many cheap flights there and there are tons of guys that go there and ruin reputations of Westerners. I don’t see this happening in Russia because of the pain of getting an invitation letter, visa and because it is so damn expensive. And I don’t think most stags/ sex tourists are going to go through all that trouble, let alone afford it. I also think forums like this are encouraging more and more guys to go off the beaten path and thus ruining more and more places. For every poster there are probably like 10 lurkers just sucking up info. It’s a vicious cycle and the markets are very efficient and getting more and more efficient everyday because of sites like these…but that’s a conversation for another day.

In Ukraine girls didn't seem that interested in meeting foreigners and though I would get looks they weren't necessarily I want to fuck you looks but the you look different/weird but not in a good way look. One mistake I made in the Ukraine was that I went to the higher end clubs(Decadence House, Patipa, etc) were girls were used to guys with money and had a lot more than I have….but the girls were stunning. We tried going to a mid-range place one night and they didn’t let us in for the only reason being that we were foreigners. Even slipping the door guy money to no avail. We had no problem getting into the high end places in Kiev.

When I was in Moscow didn’t try to go to high end places like Soho Room, etc. but rather stuck to mid-range places with mid range girls. Girls were very aggressive, and I barely had to make any approaches. Girls would either approach me or just stare at me long enough where all I had to was say was hi. I hooked up every night I went out in Russia vs. the farthest I got in Kiev was a kiss on the cheek. I think in Russia looks matter more than in the Ukraine. In Ukraine I think all girls cared about was money but again that could be due to the type of places I went to(Decadance House/ Patipa type places).

There is definitely tons of racism and cops are corrupt in both places. One guy ashed his cigarette on me in Kiev which I thought at first could have been an accident, then when he later pushed me for no reason I realized it wasn’t an accident. One of the guys I met out there that was from Australia got stopped and shaken down by Police for about $30. He spoke fluent Russian and is of 100% Ukraine descent but it didn’t matter. A similar story in Russia one of the guys who was showing us around got taken to jail for a few hours for not having his papers when he first moved there. While he wasn’t ethnically Russian he does speak fluently. Didn’t really experience any direct racism in Russia but got some dirty looks and if I wasn’t with such a big group definitely could have escalated further.

Language wasn’t a big issue for me in either country. Most girls spoke it just fine. In Kiev if I asked a girl if she spoke English in Russian they usually got offended. Most girls in Russia thought it was cute.

[BTman]

thought I would add some photo examples...

   

banged her(taken from her FB)


   

hooked up with her

[Deb Auchery]

(05-13-2012 09:41 PM)BTman Wrote:  

I have been to Russia(Moscow/St. Pete)and Ukraine(Kiev) and in my opinion Russia hands down wins. The thing about Ukraine is that there are many cheap flights there and there are tons of guys that go there and ruin reputations of Westerners. I don’t see this happening in Russia because of the pain of getting an invitation letter, visa and because it is so damn expensive. And I don’t think most stags/ sex tourists are going to go through all that trouble, let alone afford it. I also think forums like this are encouraging more and more guys to go off the beaten path and thus ruining more and more places. For every poster there are probably like 10 lurkers just sucking up info. It’s a vicious cycle and the markets are very efficient and getting more and more efficient everyday because of sites like these…but that’s a conversation for another day.

In Ukraine girls didn't seem that interested in meeting foreigners and though I would get looks they weren't necessarily I want to fuck you looks but the you look different/weird but not in a good way look. One mistake I made in the Ukraine was that I went to the higher end clubs(Decadence House, Patipa, etc) were girls were used to guys with money and had a lot more than I have….but the girls were stunning. We tried going to a mid-range place one night and they didn’t let us in for the only reason being that we were foreigners. Even slipping the door guy money to no avail. We had no problem getting into the high end places in Kiev.

When I was in Moscow didn’t try to go to high end places like Soho Room, etc. but rather stuck to mid-range places with mid range girls. Girls were very aggressive, and I barely had to make any approaches. Girls would either approach me or just stare at me long enough where all I had to was say was hi. I hooked up every night I went out in Russia vs. the farthest I got in Kiev was a kiss on the cheek. I think in Russia looks matter more than in the Ukraine. In Ukraine I think all girls cared about was money but again that could be due to the type of places I went to(Decadance House/ Patipa type places).

There is definitely tons of racism and cops are corrupt in both places. One guy ashed his cigarette on me in Kiev which I thought at first could have been an accident, then when he later pushed me for no reason I realized it wasn’t an accident. One of the guys I met out there that was from Australia got stopped and shaken down by Police for about $30. He spoke fluent Russian and is of 100% Ukraine descent but it didn’t matter. A similar story in Russia one of the guys who was showing us around got taken to jail for a few hours for not having his papers when he first moved there. While he wasn’t ethnically Russian he does speak fluently. Didn’t really experience any direct racism in Russia but got some dirty looks and if I wasn’t with such a big group definitely could have escalated further.

Language wasn’t a big issue for me in either country. Most girls spoke it just fine. In Kiev if I asked a girl if she spoke English in Russian they usually got offended. Most girls in Russia thought it was cute.

Very interesting info BT thanks

I would not say there are tonnes of westerners in Ukraine though, perhaps in Kiev and Odessa in summertime, but mercifully less than in other EE cities. Though there are more and more cheap flights coming , especially from Turkey.

When were you in Russia?

Yes the need for a visa and the higher cost of living keeps many tourists away which is good. There will always be great places to hunt in Russia, I mean how many stag parties have Novosibirsk on their list?

Thanks for pics, first girl is hot

[Hooligan Harry]

(05-12-2012 11:03 AM)Deb Auchery Wrote:  

I always imagined that Russians were hotter than Ukrainians, but I haven't made it to Russia as yet. Maybe those who have been to both places would like to give their opinion, Kamaki perhaps?

As for Belarus, I was disappointed with the browsing i did on mamba/vk, but if the foreigner status Is suitably high then one could solely concentrate on top tier.

People are very quick to forget places like Georgia, Armenia and Uzbekistan, likewise the east of Russia.

For me, the hottest women come from Russian Samara and the surrounding cities. I dont know if its the Georgian/Kazakhstani influence, but that whole region produces 10's off a conveyor belt.

Samara seems to be bit of a centre point, but all the towns and cities around it would turn the Pope himself into a sex predator. This includes Ufa, Ulyanovsk, Perm, Yekaterinburg and Chelyabinsk, which are all within about 250km-500km of it.

Most of these places will not have more than a million people living there and are highly industrialised crap holes. You will not get around if you dont speak some Russian and they see very few foreigners, but that is the real Russia. Moscow and St Petersburg are not an accurate reflection on the country as a whole. Its like being on another planet when you are in deep Russia and for my tastes, the women are tough to beat.

[oldnemesis]

(05-13-2012 09:41 PM)BTman Wrote:  

I have been to Russia(Moscow/St. Pete)and Ukraine(Kiev) and in my opinion Russia hands down wins. The thing about Ukraine is that there are many cheap flights there and there are tons of guys that go there and ruin reputations of Westerners. I don’t see this happening in Russia because of the pain of getting an invitation letter, visa and because it is so damn expensive.

Worth explaining here that Ukraine is visa-free for the US and UK/EU, while Russia is not (and the visa process itself is quite painful and time-consuming - although not too expensive).

Also worth mentioning here that Moscow is significantly (wild guess would be 5x) more expensive than Kiev if you expect Western style accommodations and services OR you don't read/speak Russian at least at the intermediate level (which in turn limits you to those mentioned above)

Quote:

In Ukraine girls didn't seem that interested in meeting foreigners and though I would get looks they weren't necessarily I want to fuck you looks but the you look different/weird but not in a good way look.

Same in Russia. Being a foreigner is mostly a liability here. At best it is neutral. Of course if you present yourself as a potential husband/sponsor it is a different story, but this is not relevant here as Russian girls looking for a sponsor are more likely to focus on Russian guys.

Quote:

In Ukraine I think all girls cared about was money but again that could be due to the type of places I went to(Decadance House/ Patipa type places).

No, it is a typical value fight, i.e. "what would I get out of it"?
Your foreign cock per se has little to no value to the most of them, so there are two ways to proceed:

- Give her something else in value (English conversation, validation, gifts)
- Pretend her pussy has no value to you either, so it is equal deal. This is hard if you don't have the specific personality, but still possible. I've done it and I've seen having it done, but this is not for everyone.

Quote:

One of the guys I met out there that was from Australia got stopped and shaken down by Police for about $30. He spoke fluent Russian and is of 100% Ukraine descent but it didn’t matter.

No, it did not matter. The cops there are vultures, they prey on weak. They likely felt those guys wouldn't bring them any trouble like calling 02 right away from their cell phones (I've pretended to done it a few times and it worked like charm) or even threatening to complain to their embassy. Would it be an incorrect guess from me to speculate they didn't ever get laid either?

Quote:

Language wasn’t a big issue for me in either country. Most girls spoke it just fine. In Kiev if I asked a girl if she spoke English in Russian they usually got offended. Most girls in Russia thought it was cute.

It does sound unusual, and I've lived both in Kiev and Moscow. Remember that there is always the second communication layer; when you ask her in Russian (so she assumes you speak fluent Russian) if she speaks English, she's trying to understand what exactly do you want from her by asking that?

[Deb Auchery]

I didn't hear such good things about Georgia, a friend who was recently there told me they were quite pretty but rather savage.
Armenia I have no idea. The only girl I met from Uzbekistan was a 10. I'm interested in visiting the Stan countries, but if the quality is no better or worse than Ukraine/Western Russia, then I couldn't be bothered going all that way really. Saying that Aersovit are flying pretty cheaply to the 'stans, I might find a way to pass through on my way to India this Autumn

Samara is been high on my list for sometime, my Russian is poor at the moment,will have to hit it hard before I go. Though I'm sure I can get some bangs without saying much.

I guess in summer these crap holes will be quiet, the girls probably go to their grandmother's house.

[LifeBeginsAt40]

(05-12-2012 11:55 AM)Deb Auchery Wrote:  

Russia.really only has two.main cities, especially for the time limited tourist.

Disagree. St Petersburg and Moscow are no doubt the 2 you mention but you have Volgograd, Sochi and Kazan that are worth visiting. Volgograd and Kazan have enough touristy things to keep someone occupied if they really want to. Sochi is a good summer destination for tourists.

[Deb Auchery]

Yes I was thinking of visiting Volvograd because of it's close proximity to Eastern Ukraine.

I researched Sochi, but think I decided that it seemed more of a family destination than anything else.

[LifeBeginsAt40]

(05-13-2012 09:41 PM)BTman Wrote:  

I think in Russia looks matter more than in the Ukraine. In Ukraine I think all girls cared about was money but again that could be due to the type of places I went to(Decadance House/ Patipa type places).

The ex wife hated Ukranian's. To her they were basically a nation of prostitutes who would do anything for money. Quite a few Russians actually think this way of Ukranians. She used to watch law and order and whenever they had a Russian prostitute or something on it, she would always say the woman was Ukranian, not Russian. Used to always get a good laugh out of that.

(05-13-2012 09:41 PM)BTman Wrote:  

There is definitely tons of racism and cops are corrupt in both places.

Racism is shocking over there and it probably comes as no surprise that most of it stems from the church's teaching over there. I have been to a few services with the ex wife and the anti-semetic rhetoric that come out of the priests mouth is amazing. As for the cops, they get one whiff you are a tourist they will try and shake you down. Had one that tried to get 1000 rouble out of me for smoking in Red Square. Easiest way to scare them off is call their bluff about them arresting you and inform them you will be call your consulate. They back off right away.

[Greek kamaki]

From my experience Russian women are more interested in money than Ukrainian girls(who do not make discounts either).Russian have winner mentality they take it all.Ukrainian are more inhibited in this regard.Russian women demands are unlimited.However you get better quality in Russia really stunning girls.Russia is also considerably more expensive due to higher value of Russian ruble kept artificially high by petro and gas money pumped for this reason by Russian government.
Ukraine is like soft Russia police almost never harasses you.Russia has much less European influence.

[Deb Auchery]

I would also think that Russians are more money obsessed than Ukrainians,from the Russians I have met overseas anyway.

I would be more interested in a Russian girl for something long term as they are more likely to have their own money. For me to marry(heaven forbid) an FSU girl, she must have an employment history, speak English to conversational level, come from a good family, not be a villager(unless under 21), have spent at least some time overseas