[Indefatigable]

I'm wondering what your feelings are on approaching a second time the same night?

I usually don't do it, but I believe I'm missing out on a lot of potential bangs that way. (Not that I'm seriously thinking about acting differently.)

Basically, I hate women's habit in my city of going out and not even looking at guys and of rejecting first and asking questions (checking out the guy) later. Basically, I'm really good looking, but get rejected by default and then often have the same women who rejected me staring at me later. (Some of this is related to race -- I'm black.) I pretty much never approach again, no matter how much they stare.

[Only One Man]

They probably get drunker and realize what they really want, which is some big black dick.

[HiFlo]

yeah, do it, it's very important.

even though the first time u opened em, the set may have fizzled, later on in the night they may see you as a "familiar face" (if ur 1st set wasn't too bad) and be both grateful/horny that your not a beta creeper hitting on them at the club. haha

the most difficult thing for me has always been a line to use to re-open them. You can do a couple things:
1) be direct - swoop your arm around her smell her hair and say "mmm, your hair smells goooood." For some reason you can get away with these very direct approaches to REOPEN a set more so than just opening a set in club game.

2) make fun of other guys: "I thought you would have had more men buy you drinks than that. I'm disappointed in your abilities to get free drinks "

3) Do a group reopener like, "so who's been the naughtiest and nicest tonight?" If the vibe is right this gets em giggling.

I'm not the best at this by any stretch of the imagination but have had moderate success with the above 3 tactics of reopening sets.

The bottom line in terms of inner game though is that unless you really f'd up the first approach, most girls will welcome a reopener with greater appreciation. It also shows you don't give up easily.

Reopener tactics are important for a lot of things other than cold approaches in clubs. I find that when I'm in mixed groups with friends/acquaintences I sometimes use the above reopener lines too.

[tomtud]

We all get rejected by default. No matter what skin tone you are. Keep pushing, your princess or princess for the night will come.

[Veloce]

Trying playing the room. I especially do this thurs-sat when things are busier and more people out.

Show up, get your first approach out of the way. Keep the interaction at 15-20 min or less. Tell her you gotta go catch up with someone you just saw walk by, and get going on your second approach. Build momentum. If you've had a few successful approaches and illicit positive responses from girls, this adds to your vibe. An hour or two later find the original girl you approached, and I'd say there's a greater than 50% chance she'll be far more receptive than she was initially. When you find her just say, "Hey, I was wondering if you were still here, you miss me?" with a decent amount of cocky sarcasm.

[Indefatigable]

(05-05-2012 02:01 PM)HiFlo Wrote:  

yeah, do it, it's very important.

even though the first time u opened em, the set may have fizzled, later on in the night they may see you as a "familiar face" (if ur 1st set wasn't too bad) and be both grateful/horny that your not a beta creeper hitting on them at the club. haha

the most difficult thing for me has always been a line to use to re-open them. You can do a couple things:
1) be direct - swoop your arm around her smell her hair and say "mmm, your hair smells goooood." For some reason you can get away with these very direct approaches to REOPEN a set more so than just opening a set in club game.

2) make fun of other guys: "I thought you would have had more men buy you drinks than that. I'm disappointed in your abilities to get free drinks "

3) Do a group reopener like, "so who's been the naughtiest and nicest tonight?" If the vibe is right this gets em giggling.

I'm not the best at this by any stretch of the imagination but have had moderate success with the above 3 tactics of reopening sets.

The bottom line in terms of inner game though is that unless you really f'd up the first approach, most girls will welcome a reopener with greater appreciation. It also shows you don't give up easily.

Reopener tactics are important for a lot of things other than cold approaches in clubs. I find that when I'm in mixed groups with friends/acquaintences I sometimes use the above reopener lines too.

I was thinking of a club setting, where it's loud and you can't have much of conversation. In that kind of setting I wouldn't use that kind of elablorate game.

And it's not that my set fizzled. Here girls reject and then ask questions later, especially if you're black. Also it's has nothing to do with a familiar face; it's really about looks. They reject without even looking me. Later they get a look and realize what they've done and try to get my attention, but it's too late. (Again, I'm very good looking in the face. I've gone out and litterally got surrounded by women in minutes, but nothing remotely like that happens if the lighting is not good.) And if girls think I'm that good looking, why should I be putting that much effort into game? (Do you think Brad Pitt, even as an unkown dude, would need to do that?)

This is where I'm coming from. I'm trying to do my part to change the culture of a city. These dudes put up with so much that women think they can get away with anything. If more dudes would follow a no-second-approach rule, more women change the reject-by-default attitude that they have.

[Indefatigable]

(05-05-2012 02:17 PM)tomtud Wrote:  

We all get rejected by default. No matter what skin tone you are. Keep pushing, your princess or princess for the night will come.

I'm not saying that it only happens to black men. But I do think it happens more to black men. For one thing, at least where I live, women don't expect black men to be as good looking as I am, so they don't feel the need to even look properly at the guy before bushing him off.

[Kish]

(05-05-2012 02:27 PM)Indefatigable Wrote:  

I was thinking of a club setting, where it's loud and you can't have much of conversation. In that kind of setting I wouldn't use that kind of elablorate game.

And it's not that my set fizzled. Here girls reject and then ask questions later, especially if you're black. Also it's has nothing to do with a familiar face; it's really about looks. They reject without even looking me. Later they get a look and realize what they've done and try to get my attention, but it's too late. (Again, I'm very good looking in the face. I've gone out and litterally got surrounded by women in minutes, but nothing remotely like that happens if the lighting is not good.) And if girls think I'm that good looking, why should I be putting that much effort into game? (Do you think Brad Pitt, even as an unkown dude, would need to do that?)

This is where I'm coming from. I'm trying to do my part to change the culture of a city. These dudes put up with so much that women think they can get away with anything. If more dudes would follow a no-second-approach rule, more women change the reject-by-default attitude that they have.

You still need game even if you're good looking. Don't worry about rejection. Rejection is just a reflex some chics have when being approached by a guy she doesn't know.

If you are as good looking as you claim...try being more aggressive and you will get the bang..

[HiFlo]

(05-05-2012 02:27 PM)Indefatigable Wrote:  

I was thinking of a club setting, where it's loud and you can't have much of conversation. In that kind of setting I wouldn't use that kind of elablorate game.

I'm by no means an expert in loud club game, and don't like it when the shitty music's so loud I can't hear someone talk. Nonetheless, everyone still talks in the clubs hahaha. My best successes in loud clubs have been when I'm 1) touchy-feely (arm around shoulder, etc) and talking right into the girls ear, or 2) dance approach.

Loud clubs is also a generic term: are you talking about a bar where they have the music really loud? Or are you talking about a rave/dance club type thing? I'm referring to the big bar with loud music.

[bacan]

I understand where you're coming from, but there's something I'm not following -- have we covered the issue of if you're goodlooking or not?

Heh (kidding)

Some of this advice is good. You can just go up to a girl and say you thought you lost her or if she missed you or so on.

[Indefatigable]

(05-05-2012 04:23 PM)rakishness Wrote:  

(05-05-2012 02:27 PM)Indefatigable Wrote:  

I was thinking of a club setting, where it's loud and you can't have much of conversation. In that kind of setting I wouldn't use that kind of elablorate game.

And it's not that my set fizzled. Here girls reject and then ask questions later, especially if you're black. Also it's has nothing to do with a familiar face; it's really about looks. They reject without even looking me. Later they get a look and realize what they've done and try to get my attention, but it's too late. (Again, I'm very good looking in the face. I've gone out and litterally got surrounded by women in minutes, but nothing remotely like that happens if the lighting is not good.) And if girls think I'm that good looking, why should I be putting that much effort into game? (Do you think Brad Pitt, even as an unkown dude, would need to do that?)

This is where I'm coming from. I'm trying to do my part to change the culture of a city. These dudes put up with so much that women think they can get away with anything. If more dudes would follow a no-second-approach rule, more women change the reject-by-default attitude that they have.

You still need game even if you're good looking. Don't worry about rejection. Rejection is just a reflex some chics have when being approached by a guy she doesn't know.

If you are as good looking as you claim...try being more aggressive and you will get the bang..

Agreed, you need game no matter how good looking you are. What I meant was if a guy is really good looking then his opener shouldn't have to be elaborate.

I'm direct, but not really aggressive. Being aggressive hasn't worked for me (even with women who are clearly attracted to me).

To Bacan: I said in the opening that women who brush me off later end up staring at me because of my looks. I thought that was that. But then these guys came in here suggesting it's because of other reasons (they're more drunk, familiar face, etc.) so I had to set them straight.

Anyway, let's get back to the topic: do y'all do second approaches if a woman shows interest?

[Saladin]

Hey,

Check out this post and video- http://alexattitude.com/archives/628

Basically the gist of it is that girls often reject guys because they get scared. Especially if you are good looking its a snap response.

Reappraoching them in a friendly manner later might be a good idea, especially after they have had a drink or two and are relaxed and social.

By the way, the whole reject instantly thing is something very common in Toronto but don't take it at face value. Just stick in there until she tells you to fuck off or gets pissed.

Last night me and my friend were hitting on these girls on the Danforth outdoors on the patio. IT was a big group, we stuck in there for a long time. Ultimately the cockblocks prevailed(A huge fattie and a chick who looked like a male rapper).

But if you have two girls who are decent looking and a wing reapproaching or sticking in there a bit longer is probably a good idea.

[Perseus]

(05-05-2012 01:44 PM)Indefatigable Wrote:  

I'm wondering what your feelings are on approaching a second time the same night?

I usually don't do it, but I believe I'm missing out on a lot of potential bangs that way. (Not that I'm seriously thinking about acting differently.)

Basically, I hate women's habit in my city of going out and not even looking at guys and of rejecting first and asking questions (checking out the guy) later. Basically, I'm really good looking, but get rejected by default and then often have the same women who rejected me staring at me later. (Some of this is related to race -- I'm black.) I pretty much never approach again, no matter how much they stare.

I hear ya man. I'm in Toronto as well and that same thing happens to me ALL THE FUCKIN TIME! it seriously pisses the shit outta me. Also i'm not black, i'm as light as Roosh, so race don't matter.

(05-05-2012 09:24 PM)torontokid Wrote:  

Basically the gist of it is that girls often reject guys because they get scared. Especially if you are good looking its a snap response.

Reappraoching them in a friendly manner later might be a good idea, especially after they have had a drink or two and are relaxed and social.

By the way, the whole reject instantly thing is something very common in Toronto but don't take it at face value. Just stick in there until she tells you to fuck off or gets pissed.

I agree with the fact that so many girls in Toronto have more issues than a psychology encyclopedia. If you're a good looking guy, it doesn't matter if you approach in a friendly, non-aggressive way or cave man style, either way you'll intimidate her.

In fact i have been told so by girls in Toronto so many times that when i first approached them, they were a little intimidated/insecure.

Or my favorite line these girls would tell me that just fuckin pisses me off, which is "I was checking you out, but didn't think you would go for me since the place was filled with better looking girls than i am" and this girl was literally a 9! and the girls at that place were all below 7, not to mention the fact that there were only 15-20 girls at that venue and probably 45-50 guys that night.

[bface]

If you have time (2 hours), watch this:

http://www.rsdnation.com/alexander/blog/...xander-rsd

Alex talks about this a lot (and other stuff of course).

[Spike]

My impression of Indefatigable so far :
- Toronto hater because the girls don't like his type( 2 threads)
- Game denier ( 1 thread)
- this thread : 4 out of 4 posts he saying how very good looking he is (with the right lighting of course)

Not saying he's trolling. I'm just saying.

[Indefatigable]

(05-06-2012 02:42 AM)Neil Skywalker Wrote:  

My impression of Indefatigable so far :
- Toronto hater because the girls don't like his type( 2 threads)
- Game denier ( 1 thread)
- this thread : 4 out of 4 posts he saying how very good looking he is (with the right lighting of course)

Not saying he's trolling. I'm just saying.

Toronto sucks for all guys (though it is worse for black guys right now).

I said that I suspect that game will be become less effective as time goes on. That doesn't mean that I think it's ineffective now. And I'm increasingly thinking that some (low, at a minimum) level of game will remain important no matter what happens in the future.

About the good looking thing, I was just explaining why women would stare at me after brushing me off earlier. It's not really that important to the thread. It only became an issue after some guys tried to say it was because of some other reason. (Listen, I met up with Moma a couple months ago and a lot of women were checking me out at the venue we went. It wasn't the most attention I've gotten while out, but he can confirm that a lot of the women -- maybe even most -- were checking me out there.) And the fact is that I get a lot less attention when the lighting is bad (though, of course, I'm no less or more good looking depending on the lighting). I suppose this is true of any good looking guy.

[Mujeriego]

LOL @ girls being intimidated. I used to think there was something wrong with me as a teenager because girls would clam up and look at their feet when I talked to them. I was too chumpy to realize they were attracted and all I needed to do was flirt a little and caveman them for a lay up.

Here's a thread on how the game changes if you're handsome.
http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-7069.html

[bface]

(05-06-2012 03:00 AM)Indefatigable Wrote:  

I said that I suspect that game will be become less effective as time goes on. That doesn't mean that I think it's ineffective now. And I'm increasingly thinking that some (low, at a minimum) level of game will remain important no matter what happens in the future.

What is this "game" thing you are talking about? Memorizing awkward pickup lines?

Or are you trying to say that girls will stop being attracted to relaxed, confident men?

If it's the second, you must be trolling...

[Spike]

(05-06-2012 03:00 AM)Indefatigable Wrote:  

(05-06-2012 02:42 AM)Neil Skywalker Wrote:  

My impression of Indefatigable so far :
- Toronto hater because the girls don't like his type( 2 threads)
- Game denier ( 1 thread)
- this thread : 4 out of 4 posts he saying how very good looking he is (with the right lighting of course)

Not saying he's trolling. I'm just saying.

Toronto sucks for all guys (though it is worse for black guys right now).

I said that I suspect that game will be become less effective as time goes on. That doesn't mean that I think it's ineffective now. And I'm increasingly thinking that some (low, at a minimum) level of game will remain important no matter what happens in the future.

Toronto's metropolitan area has 5.5 million people. How can that suck for everyone ? Canadian girls are not really known to be conservative prudes. The Canadian girl i was with gave me a blowjob on the great wall of China and loved to get fucked 24/7.

If game is become less effective as time goes on, then what is becoming MORE effective in the future according to you.

[Perseus]

(05-06-2012 02:42 AM)Neil Skywalker Wrote:  

My impression of Indefatigable so far :
- Toronto hater because the girls don't like his type( 2 threads)
- Game denier ( 1 thread)
- this thread : 4 out of 4 posts he saying how very good looking he is (with the right lighting of course)

Not saying he's trolling. I'm just saying.

Not that i'm trying to defend the guy, but have you ever been in Toronto? It's absolutely frustrating sometimes.

That being said, OP's reply to you does have certain game denialism in it as he believe game effectiveness will decrease, not realizing that game is basically a NAME for certain behaviors or thinking that men utilize to compete effectively for and have access to top notch women, which has been around since the dawn of time.

[Indefatigable]

It's like no one wants to talk about the threat topic. Oh well.

About the effectiveness of game thing, I said that I suspect that as looks become more important game will become less important. You can read what I said in the thread I made called "The Bottom Line."

[Saladin]

Game is more important than ever in Toronto.
As Perseus said, girls are insecure, you need tight game to make sure you can break through their insecurity. He said 9s were insecure about him.

I see a lot of good looking guys here who don't get play. To do well in Toronto you need tight game along with excellent style or good looks.

The 2 hour video that bface posted is very good. The importance of not taking girls bitchiness seriously is the best concept I've taken away from Alexander.

Neil, you should make your opinion up after visiting it.

[Moma]

(05-06-2012 03:00 AM)Indefatigable Wrote:  

(05-06-2012 02:42 AM)Neil Skywalker Wrote:  

My impression of Indefatigable so far :
- Toronto hater because the girls don't like his type( 2 threads)
- Game denier ( 1 thread)
- this thread : 4 out of 4 posts he saying how very good looking he is (with the right lighting of course)

Not saying he's trolling. I'm just saying.

Toronto sucks for all guys (though it is worse for black guys right now).

I said that I suspect that game will be become less effective as time goes on. That doesn't mean that I think it's ineffective now. And I'm increasingly thinking that some (low, at a minimum) level of game will remain important no matter what happens in the future.

About the good looking thing, I was just explaining why women would stare at me after brushing me off earlier. It's not really that important to the thread. It only became an issue after some guys tried to say it was because of some other reason. (Listen, I met up with Moma a couple months ago and a lot of women were checking me out at the venue we went. It wasn't the most attention I've gotten while out, but he can confirm that a lot of the women -- maybe even most -- were checking me out there.) And the fact is that I get a lot less attention when the lighting is bad (though, of course, I'm no less or more good looking depending on the lighting). I suppose this is true of any good looking guy.

Indefatigable is extremely goodlooking. I can attest to that. A male Adonis. I look better than him of course (Tdot kid can attest to that) but that is only because I am illogically gorgeous (especially from the jaw down). Every lizard who has turned me down said they always wanted to rub my semi pot belly.

Now, in regards to the second approach, sure, why not? Go with the feel. Often, when you hit early in these clubs, the reptiles are not soaked enough (liquored up) sufficiently to respond favourably, so your first rejection may just be warming the fanny up. Second shot should be closer to the truth so yea go for it.

[Perseus]

(05-06-2012 05:46 AM)Neil Skywalker Wrote:  

(05-06-2012 03:00 AM)Indefatigable Wrote:  

(05-06-2012 02:42 AM)Neil Skywalker Wrote:  

My impression of Indefatigable so far :
- Toronto hater because the girls don't like his type( 2 threads)
- Game denier ( 1 thread)
- this thread : 4 out of 4 posts he saying how very good looking he is (with the right lighting of course)

Not saying he's trolling. I'm just saying.

Toronto sucks for all guys (though it is worse for black guys right now).

I said that I suspect that game will be become less effective as time goes on. That doesn't mean that I think it's ineffective now. And I'm increasingly thinking that some (low, at a minimum) level of game will remain important no matter what happens in the future.

Toronto's metropolitan area has 5.5 million people. How can that suck for everyone ? Canadian girls are not really known to be conservative prudes. The Canadian girl i was with gave me a blowjob on the great wall of China and loved to get fucked 24/7.

If game is become less effective as time goes on, then what is becoming MORE effective in the future according to you.

LOL sure, a Canadian girl ON VACATION OVERSEAS. That says it all.

Try visiting Toronto for 4-6 months, and you will understand.

We live/grew up in Toronto, we know what we are talking about based on what we observed/experienced and STILL experiencing.

Imagine being in a venue where 10 good looking guys are all competing for the one of 10 girls who's looks are all below 6, and are FAT. THAT is Toronto in a nutshell (in majority of places, not all of them).