[Ferro]

Hello,

I have been lurking here for a few months while I read Bang, Day Bang, and absorbed the great insights on this forum. Now after a few weeks of day approaches (about 30 in total) I need some help.

I cannot seem to break past the elderly opener. The elderly openers seem to resolve themselves before I can make a transition to fun and baity ramble and then my prepared big bait afterwards. It is like this is war and the most powerful weapon in my arsenal is natural game in the form of the elderly opener while the most power weapon in their arsenal is to just let the conversation die a natural death, which trumps my elderly opener and they seem to do this at every opportunity.

I know roosh says that I should try to stick to the opener for at least 1-2 mins, but they end most of my openers before I hit that mark. I understand that I could try to unnaturally segue into so fun and baity ramble earlier on, but I want to work on mastering my natural approach and keeping the interaction as seemingly natural (and thus returning greater potential dividends) as possible for now; I do plan to experiment with more direct day game later, but not yet.

I have recently started recording my approaches with my phone and have uploaded 10 of them in order from best to worst. They are from the mall, the grocery store, and the bookstore. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to make any Coffee Shop approaches since I started recording, but before that two of my best and longest approaches happened there. I will keep trying.

Please help me figure out what I am not doing and/or doing wrong in these approaches and from what I have written.

Thanks guys. Also the innuendo in the second approach was not intentional, lol

[Veloce]

You're sticking on the same subject too long. You need to move your ramble around a little, it sounds like you stick to your opener and then even after it's dead, you keep hanging on.

A few suggestions:
-Work on your speech, it might be the recording but it sounds like you mumble a little. Slow it down and enunciate.
-Your voice jumps around in pitch too much. This tends to come off as weakness, shyness, and insecurity. Keep the voice tone low, firm, and confident. When you're doing these approaches, pretend you're Sean Connery or Harrison Ford.
-as mentioned, move around in your ramble. The asparagus one was funny, but instead of beating the "How do you tell a good one" horse, move it around to something like, "When I was in New York, I had this great asparagus dish but I can't figure out how they made it. How do you like to cook asparagus? Where did you learn that? From a cookbook? Who's your favorite chef? Oh you like French food, that's cool, have you been to France? The best food I had was in blah blah blah, blah bah blah" Don't stick on a particular subject too long. Set up a 30 second timer in your head and learn to correlate this timer with her reactions. If she's interested in what you're saying, you can stick on that subject a little longer. If you notice her body language indicates avoidance or impatience, keep jumping around subjects.

This takes some practice but this is the direction you want to go. THEN, once you have the ramble down, THAT'S when you start dropping bait, waiting for her to start asking YOU questions, then proceed as usual.

[Walnuts]

You sound a little nervous. Try to calm down and relax. Play around with it, enjoy it. Mess with them if you have to. Use some teasing and cockiness. You sound as if you are confused and actually really want to know what you're asking about rather than flirt with her. I'd say do it in a way that lets her know you're subtly flirting with her rather than just sounding clueless about the damn asparagus or celery of whatever it was.

You are trying to build some rapport and a connection, not find out information you could google. The elderly opener is an excuse to start talking. Run your friendly-cocky-charming-funny game as standard once you open.

I feel as though I can't really express here what I mean, so if you have any questions, please do not hesitate to ask.

Anyway, that is my view of the elderly opener. If anyone disagrees I'd be glad to hear your thoughts and advice or criticisms.

[Ferro]

Thanks for the observations guys, especially the speech issues that I wouldn't have noticed.

Somewhere between these different recordings (taken within the span of about a week) I actually did figure out that projecting my inner game and outward mannerisms as James Bond (Sean Connery obviously) would be the best way to relax myself and get a good vibe going. Unfortunately it seems that while my outward mannerisms (which you didn't see) were pretty confident and fun, I guess my speech still needs work.

As for "sounding as if you are confused and actually really want to know what you're asking about rather than flirt with her" lol I was actually doing that on purpose, as that seemed exactly what roosh was pushing for in the initial elderly opener: sounding like a "confused old man." I was planning on transitioning to a more fun and flirty vibe after we moved past the opener to other topics and my bait, but they just never came. I guess I was taking that too literal (it is hard to project james bond and a confused old man together), or maybe the confused old man thing doesn't work for me. The primary reason for sticking with it was to help develop my seemingly "natural" and less direct approaches first, but I guess I should start moving a bit more towards the latter.

I will work with these great suggestions and report back. Also any tips for practicing refining one's speech? I will just record and test it on my coworkers for now.

[Veloce]

I have a tendency to talk too fast. When someone says "Huh?" or "What?" I know I'm doing it. Ever read in front of a class or do public speaking? Practice reading out loud. Don't skim, read every word, and read louder than you normally would.