[ColSpanker]

Apologies if this has been brought up before.
I took a job recently (needed some extra $$$) in retail that has me selling to women as the prime customers. I felt it might improve my people and sales skills. Also was looking for a way to improve my Game since what is the Holy Game but advanced sales technique?
I find myself working with four women. 3 are forty years and more in age. One, a solid 8, is twenty-two, but only works a a few hours a week.
Discovery: female co-workers in retail look upon any man at their level or lower as a beta chump. Why? Their husbands or LTR's are the prime money earner. They are there to get out of the house and earn some extra cash. So what the fuck are YOU doing here, Herb?
As any one who has ever worked retail over the past few years may know, management is ruthless about evaluating you on sales. This is the only thing they care about. You find yourself in a survival-of-the-viscous jungle.
And I am getting my sales ass kicked by these biotches.
Any advice would be welcomed. I've already started to look for another job.

[AntiTrace]

Why exactly are your sales suffering? Maybe you need a new sales technique.

Throw up some more detailed info on how exactly your sales are getting ass kicked by those bitches.

[tomtud]

In education, when you speak honestly off the record to women teachers, not the newbies who have no clue and are in the beyonce women rule the world nonsense mentality, but experienced 10 years plus. They will tell you that they would rather work for a male principal over a woman any day. Myself included, I would rather work for a male boss any day.

Working with women or for women are two different beasts. But essentialylu if you show knowledge or power in a subject or task they will respect you. Their subconscious mind triggers to men being leaders and powerful. No matter what they. Say, the subconscious mind controls their feelings.

Back to women principals, well they for the most part are very fussy and not natural born leaders. If your boss needs to read a book on how to be an effective leader, then that person is in the wrong position. Either you are born a leader or not. You can see it in the playground. Certain children gravitate towards a leader, while the others are followers. Same goes when adults start going out to clubs etc. Certain people will usually gravitate towards one individual and see what they are doing etc.

Women subconsciously are submissive, and working for or with them show your alpha side.

[kosko]

I've been in both spots. Being the only male on staff to becoming a manager and bossing all those broads around. This wasn't in retail but the broads won't show any live or respect. Ever. Just mind fuck them, assert yourself and glide by. Why? Because eventually the females will star to squabble with each other and it will lead to turnover or loss in productivity. I got to the point of asserting myself, being the "nice guy" and having the women do a majority of the work and getting all the admiration.

Bring them food to. Women live getting fat. I was a great cook and made great meals as my job required me to cook. So eventually the broads knew each shift they would get a rich fatty meal and a assertive man bossing them around.

[ColSpanker]

I like the "bring food" idea. I'm sure cookies might be a good substitute. At least it might keep them from smoking so much. Yeech.
What really sucks about retail is that you can kiss your weekends good-bye because that is when you do all your business.

[garygroundwork]

working with women can be a fkn nightmare..they are bitchy and can be real pains in the arses

having said that great way to meet women and the ebst way to get into a relationship (if u r into that sort of thing) if not with women u work with but their friends who u soon meet ins ocial scenarios.

[Keyser Söze]

[LifeBeginsAt40]

I have been in numerous scenarios throughout my working career. I have been the sole male worker in an all female office with a female boss. I have been a boss to a bunch of females only. I have worked for female bosses in a mixed environment and I have been a boss to them in a mixed environment as well.

Now in an all female environment where you are not the boss you are perceived as the beta chump. Doesn't matter how you try to change it, the perception will always be there. I ended up learning way more about the royal family than I ever wanted to know listening to a bunch of women ramble on all day about them. What you will find nowadays is if you get any office role/sales role early in your working career you have a very high chance of running into such a scenario. Either you suck it up or you move on. I sucked things up for a while there but eventually I told them to go stick their job where the sun don't shine.

Being the boss of them is quite easy. When you have a gaggle of females there is usually a head bitch amongst them. Find her, get on her good side and the rest of them fall in line. Get on her wrong side though its a living hell.

Nowadays I work is a male dominated worked environment and have to say it is the most enjoyable role I have ever had. In fact the 3 best jobs I have had would be male dominated roles while the 3 worst are female dominated roles.

[Neo]

No matter how tough they seem, remember that 95%+ of women are sensitive. Keep that in mind when choosing words your and how you talk with them. I've worked a lot of jobs, and worked with women in all of them. It's all the same. Situations that wouldn't even faze a man, the women would just complain about constantly. Most of the time the women would do less work and be able to get away with it, 'because their women.'
It can be infuriating at times. Nonetheless, it's an economic necessity for some of us until our businesses and ideas take off and we can live independently. With that said here some ideas:

*Be personable and humorous. Make them laugh, show interest in their lives. Yes this is bullshit, but you have to do it.
*Don't talk shit about any coworkers behind their back. I don't care how much you hate the person, because chicks at work will backstab you in a minute. If she comes to you talking crap about someone else just be understanding with lots of head nodding and 'I understand why it made you feel that way.' Look like you're listening to her while at the same time mentally drowning her out.
*As the poster above mentioned, get on the good side of the mother hen.
*If she comes to you complaining about a situation, give(fake) genuine praise. I have to fake it, because honestly I can give two shits about her situation but a simple "You did a great job considering the circumstances" works wonders.
*Just be a likeable person and you'll be fine.
*If you become their enemy, they will try to get you fired. So be their friend.
*Your mind must be unshakeable, never let it seem like they are annoying you.

Sounds dumb? Sounds 'beta'? Would I rather tell her to shut the fuck and stop complaining? Yes. But you have to play the political game if you want to keep your job. If you have equal job titles, the initial alpha male trying to dominate everything thing won't work in corporate America. If you're a manager or a boss sure, just do whatever you want.

I've just been doing the above for a while and never had any trouble with women at work. In fact a lot of them now think I'm their friend.

[kosko]

^ Solid tips. Yes now this thread has made me realize more how much 'beta, the world corporate world is. But it is true you have to bite your tounge and hide your tail because the end game is that the females implode, cannibalize themselves, or it turnes into a gossip war where heads fall. In the dust you will be left as the only competent and sane employee and will reap the rewards.

[Drazen]

At least in my experience, women hate other women in the work place, its insane the grudges they hold against other women with little to no interaction. I just ignore it all to be honest, I walk away when they start doing the office gossip, its a total waste of time. Not saying to be a jerk on purpose or be their enemy, but stop wasting your time trying to impress them. It won't happen. Its more impressive to them if you don't try to impress them, otherwise you'll be making their coffee.

I can see why your sales are down, its more on you than on them though. You seem to be intimidated by these women since you are claiming your place as a "beta chump" and making excuses. Don't go out of your way to help them, help yourself first and everything will fall into place.

[Hades]

The biggest advantage that men have, bar none, is that they are generally smarter and better at directional tasks, whereas women are more scatterbrained.

If I were in your situation, I would spend one month writing notes, finding and reading books on sales, and figuring out how to become the best salesman ever. Work hilariously long hours. Then I would become the gray man. The quiet shark in the water who's better than everybody because he's the product of a billion years of evolution, though you wouldn't always know to look at him.

[Basil Ransom]

I was thinking about posting a thread about female coworkers recently actually.

At a previous job, a couple of chick coworkers *hated* me. They were both blonde, but neither were very attractive despite what they thought of themselves, and each took every opportunity to bitch to my superiors about me. The fact that I didn't give a fuck about them, that I didn't try and kiss their ass like my own manager did nor find them cute, caused them to hate me. The fact that the job was shitty did not prevent these chicks from thinking I was scum. IMO, in higher status jobs, the chicks don't behave that way. It's like the girls know deep down that they are trading on their looks, while men compete on status, so the fact that she too is working a shitty job does not make her any less contemptuous of you and your low status.

What annoys me most is that if you have a decent looking chick ragging on you and disrespecting you, 95%+ of guys will fall over themselves to side with her and laugh at her jokes. The men will immediately cede authority to her on what is and isn't socially acceptable, and I fucking hate it. And if you call the bitch out, or make fun of her in return, she will rat on you in seconds. While I'd love to say something that'd shut her up and make her feel like absolute shit, eg draw attention to the fact that she's fat, the punishment would be swift and severe. Your only real recourse is a light, condescending response in good humor. Also, be dismissive of her overall - act distracted when talking to her, as if you have more important things to ponder.

[HiFlo]

There are a lot of competent women bosses out there. I don't understand the attitude in this thread: it seems posters think that all women should be fuckdolls and nothing more. Not every woman is a target who should be seduced - in fact, most women are people too functioning in a capitalistic society - working - and they could give fuck-all if you rate them HB5 or HB3. They're interested in working, doing a good job, and being promoted.

And a lot of women in many industries are very smart and are very capable bosses. The problem with a boss is not that he or she is a woman or man, it's that he or she is your boss.

You need to relate to many women on a professional level, and not a seduction level. Sex is only a very small part of modern life in the long-run, and you must learn to separate different behaviors for different situations.

[Kickb]

I hate working for women. I especially hate it when they try and boss me around.

[teh_skeeze]

(04-12-2012 09:21 PM)Keyser Söze Wrote:  

I laughed at the end where the boss (I'm assuming president) said that you have to tell women the why of every rule. It hit too close to home.

[DiabloBravo]

Women are territorial in the workplace. Play their game, let them sniff you out. Once they accept you, you can disrespect them all you want and they will rationalize it away.

[Leonidas_B]

(04-13-2012 07:19 PM)basilransom Wrote:  

I was thinking about posting a thread about female coworkers recently actually.

At a previous job, a couple of chick coworkers *hated* me. They were both blonde, but neither were very attractive despite what they thought of themselves, and each took every opportunity to bitch to my superiors about me. The fact that I didn't give a fuck about them, that I didn't try and kiss their ass like my own manager did nor find them cute, caused them to hate me. The fact that the job was shitty did not prevent these chicks from thinking I was scum. IMO, in higher status jobs, the chicks don't behave that way. It's like the girls know deep down that they are trading on their looks, while men compete on status, so the fact that she too is working a shitty job does not make her any less contemptuous of you and your low status.

What annoys me most is that if you have a decent looking chick ragging on you and disrespecting you, 95%+ of guys will fall over themselves to side with her and laugh at her jokes. The men will immediately cede authority to her on what is and isn't socially acceptable, and I fucking hate it. And if you call the bitch out, or make fun of her in return, she will rat on you in seconds. While I'd love to say something that'd shut her up and make her feel like absolute shit, eg draw attention to the fact that she's fat, the punishment would be swift and severe. Your only real recourse is a light, condescending response in good humor. Also, be dismissive of her overall - act distracted when talking to her, as if you have more important things to ponder.

Same thing here man. I am working with 3 females, and they are making my life a living hell. How come the ugly bitches are the mean ones? The females here are used to bossing everybody around, and that just couldn't fly with me. I guess I couldn't have been submissive and lay on my back, but I don't think that will win they over.

As an earlier poster said, I think the only solution is too know your shit. That is the only they will respect you, and stop giving you shit.

[dk902]

(04-13-2012 07:56 PM)HiFlo Wrote:  

There are a lot of competent women bosses out there. I don't understand the attitude in this thread: it seems posters think that all women should be fuckdolls and nothing more. Not every woman is a target who should be seduced - in fact, most women are people too functioning in a capitalistic society - working - and they could give fuck-all if you rate them HB5 or HB3. They're interested in working, doing a good job, and being promoted.

And a lot of women in many industries are very smart and are very capable bosses. The problem with a boss is not that he or she is a woman or man, it's that he or she is your boss.

You need to relate to many women on a professional level, and not a seduction level. Sex is only a very small part of modern life in the long-run, and you must learn to separate different behaviors for different situations.

Wow are you sure you're not a girl? I smell a rat.

That aside, I work with women on a regular basis, apart from being sympathetic to others emotions, in a corporate environment they really cannot do a job as good as a man, with few exceptions.

They are too emotionally-driven and get upset at the slightest thing. I prefer being direct and airing my problems, I fucking hate walking around on eggshells, I want to deal with problems. However I have to skirt around issues and in some cases pretend it doesn't exist at all, because as we all know women can rarely handle the truth.

They're highly self-contradictory - what is wrong for you to do is more than fine for them to repeat the next day, very short memories.

I once remember a woman asked me if I had any sugar for her coffee, I was in the middle of something and simply said 'No.' Her response 'Ok thanks for the rude response.' I mean for fucks sake even a simple response as that can be interpreted a million different ways by a woman. Dear lord.

In the mornings I just don't want to speak to anyone. Men accept this and just leave me to my devices, and accept that we're here to work not make bullshit idle chit chat all day. Women on the other hand get upset and tell me 'I'm moody.'

I love women, but I really don't want to work with them. I work to make money, not to get involved in some bullshit social pecking order with its own political intricacies and plots.

[Greek kamaki]

Women can cause all kinds of problems at work.They interrupt, they show disrespect,they are unstable etc. Some of them are basket cases they do not work at all.When confronted they refer to authorities they cannot handle the case personally.They are also tactless and make lots of comments behind one"a back.If a guy dissipated similar behaviour like interrupting, taking from toilet, hysteric shouting,mailing behind backs he would be slapped and put in position.Women escape because they are women.Only men environments are much more relaxed you do not have to worry about trivial issues.
Men can stay silent and is O.K. a woman will always try to disrupt this golden silence.With women there is never silence.

Women also cannot take jokes and they are very personal.They also want to be flirted.With women you feel restrained too much PC.With men there is freedom.

[soup]

(07-06-2012 04:34 PM)Greek kamaki Wrote:  

Women can cause all kinds of problems at work.They interrupt, they show disrespect,they are unstable etc. Some of them are basket cases they do not work at all.When confronted they refer to authorities they cannot handle the case personally.They are also tactless and make lots of comments behind one"a back.If a guy dissipated similar behaviour like interrupting, taking from toilet, hysteric shouting,mailing behind backs he would be slapped and put in position.Women escape because they are women.Only men environments are much more relaxed you do not have to worry about trivial issues.
Men can stay silent and is O.K. a woman will always try to disrupt this golden silence.With women there is never silence.

Women also cannot take jokes and they are very personal.They also want to be flirted.With women you feel restrained too much PC.With men there is freedom.

What do they take from the toilet?

[MikeCF]

(04-13-2012 07:56 PM)HiFlo Wrote:  

There are a lot of competent women bosses out there. I don't understand the attitude in this thread: it seems posters think that all women should be fuckdolls and nothing more. Not every woman is a target who should be seduced - in fact, most women are people too functioning in a capitalistic society - working - and they could give fuck-all if you rate them HB5 or HB3. They're interested in working, doing a good job, and being promoted.

And a lot of women in many industries are very smart and are very capable bosses. The problem with a boss is not that he or she is a woman or man, it's that he or she is your boss.

You need to relate to many women on a professional level, and not a seduction level. Sex is only a very small part of modern life in the long-run, and you must learn to separate different behaviors for different situations.

No one said anything about wanting to fuck a woman boss.

In fact, the opposite was said. Men were complaining that women use sexuality as a way to skirt professional obligations.

In the workforce, guys here want women to perform. We don't want them for sex. We want them to show up, work hard, and not hide behind their looks and use "I'm a girl" as an excuse for non-performance.

You are either a woman or a troll or have poor reading comprehension.

[MikeCF]

I'll bet that when you arrive to work, you just "do your thing." You work. That is a huge mistake.

I work very well with women.

If you work with women, you need to be extremely social. You can't keep to yourself.

I had a woman say, "I thought you hated me!" She thought this because I didn't say hi to her when I got to the office.

Women are so solipsistic that if you are in a bad mood, they'll think you're in a bad mood because of them.

You gotta engage them. Talk to them. Ask about their lives.

If they are outselling you, ask them for tips.

Become a "little brother" or "gay best friend" role.

If you don't like that, quit.

But buddy, I have bad news for you. If you work for any company, you're going to work with and for women.

May as well learn the game now, while the stakes are low.

[MikeCF]

(04-14-2012 03:15 PM)DiabloBravo Wrote:  

Women are territorial in the workplace. Play their game, let them sniff you out. Once they accept you, you can disrespect them all you want and they will rationalize it away.

Correct.

If a woman, say, always orders lunch, don't be the guy who tries ordering lunch.

Little shit like that will start wars.

Sit back. Observe the power dynamic. Don't take initiative or be bold.

Be anonymous. Conform. Stop caring if the company's bottom line is being hurt by a woman's inefficiency.

It's not your problem.

Repeat after me, "It's not my problem."

Yeah, it sucks to have no ownership of your work and to just clock in and collect a pay check, never accomplishing anything tangible and simply shuffling papers.

Welcome to corporate America.

On the bright side, if you play the game smart, you can make a nice living.

[dk902]

(07-06-2012 05:33 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

I'll bet that when you arrive to work, you just "do your thing." You work. That is a huge mistake.

I work very well with women.

If you work with women, you need to be extremely social. You can't keep to yourself.

I had a woman say, "I thought you hated me!" She thought this because I didn't say hi to her when I got to the office.

Women are so solipsistic that if you are in a bad mood, they'll think you're in a bad mood because of them.

You gotta engage them. Talk to them. Ask about their lives.

If they are outselling you, ask them for tips.

Become a "little brother" or "gay best friend" role.

If you don't like that, quit.

But buddy, I have bad news for you. If you work for any company, you're going to work with and for women.

May as well learn the game now, while the stakes are low.

I have an excellent relationship with the women I work with, because as you say you have to be very sociable.

Having said that, even as someone who is extremely extroverted and talkative there are just times during the day when I want to be left alone, talk to no one, concentrate and do my thing.

With women this is neigh on impossible.

There are some guys I know in the office I speak to them, they will not respond until they've finished their shit whatever. I understand and do not take it personally, nor do I give a shit. Business is business. Woe betide delaying a response with a woman lest you be upset with her!


You are right though - you can either swim with the tide or go against it, one to remember. I fully accept women for what they are sexually, I also need to apply this to the workplace.