[makher]

What kind of living standard will you have in Stockholm or Gothenburg on a pre-tax salary of 384,000 SEK or 57,000 USD. I'm trying to estimate the living standard this salary equates to at age 29-32. Also, where would this salary put you relative to the typical 29-32 year old male in Sweden. Assume annual raises of 5-10%. Thanks for your help!

[rudebwoy]

Sounds like alot of money to me, I have visited the place a few times.
Vicious would probably give you a better perspective as he lives there.
I would be surprised if the typical male swede is earning that much, but I will tell you it will not mean much in a place like that.
The Swedes aren't into showing wealth, I have witnessed first hand some "tourists" doing the champagne thing in a club and girls actually looking repulsed when offered some.

[Bronan the Barbarian!]

Sweden is expensive as hell. A decent chunk of your salary will go to taxes as well. With 57K, you'll do fine, but you're not going to live as well as you would in America with the same amount of money. The cool thing is, like rudebwoy said, Swedes aren't very impressed or into displaying wealth.

That being said, both Stockholm and Gothenberg are two of my favorite cities. Damn near every girl you see will be bangable. 8s and 9s are really common there, plus tons of amazing metal bands are from Sweden. Good luck dude!

[Saladin]

(03-24-2012 01:58 PM)Bronan the Barbarian! Wrote:  

Sweden is expensive as hell. A decent chunk of your salary will go to taxes as well. With 57K, you'll do fine, but you're not going to live as well as you would in America with the same amount of money. The cool thing is, like rudebwoy said, Swedes aren't very impressed or into displaying wealth.

That being said, both Stockholm and Gothenberg are two of my favorite cities. Damn near every girl you see will be bangable. 8s and 9s are really common there, plus tons of amazing metal bands are from Sweden. Good luck dude!

The Iron Maiden concert in Gothenburg was fuckin insanse! The town was overrun by Maiden fans(Its a city of 300k people, but had 60k Maiden fans in town that weekend! Insanity).

[Vicious]

At that income level you'll be able to live very comfortably.

EDIT: Oh wait, this is pre-tax. In that case you are just about average. As mentioned this is not notiable from the outside however due to the stigma on displaying wealth.

[durangotang]

My apologies to Vicious and any other Swede who may be offended, but since we always hear such nice things in the press about Sweden, I'd like to present a contrarian viewpoint. This guy went to Handelshogskolan, the Stockhom University of Economics, for two years and as an American hated Sweden:

http://swedenson.com/

It is clear this guy is a hater, and perhaps just a troll, but I get the feeling from reading the comments (especially from the Swedes) that there might be a lot more to it - similar to Roosh's cultural experience living in Denmark. Now, I must say that I have never been to Sweden and I am interested in visiting, but I would read a couple of the posts from the linked website and the comments before you commit to moving based upon all the nice things you have heard. The many comments on the site are intruiging.

Definitely visit first - in the winter.

[Vicious]

One man, one vote.

The alternate views displayed on that site has been stated as well by several by many members on this board (and without the whiney tone).

What I don't understand though is your point. Would you leave the USA if I dug up some critical recounts of the US? Try this site in that case: http://www.rooshv.com

[durangotang]

(03-24-2012 04:08 PM)Vicious Wrote:  

One man, one vote.

The alternate views displayed on that site has been stated as well by several by many members on this board (and without the whiney tone).

What I don't understand though is your point. Would you leave the USA if I dug up some critical recounts of the US? Try this site in that case: http://www.rooshv.com

Vicious, don't take it personally. There are plenty of critical posts regarding the United States. Sweden has the opposite exaggeration of positive comments, and I blame this on Jante Law (even now you are challenging a polite post I wrote that may point out some negatives of moving to Sweden). It breaks every rule of Jante Law to do this apparently. In light of Roosh's cultural experience in Denmark, which I found very enlightening and in stark contrast to the image most Americans have of Scandinavian countries, I thought a contrarian view of Sweden may give a different perspective on what it is like to actually live there. Again, I'll emphasize the comments on that site, especially from Swedes are the most fascinating, not the content of the author.

Too many Americans have this idyllic perception of Scandinavian countries and Sweden has done a tremendous job marketing themselves to the world. I have a feeling the reality is very different fom the perception, which is why I think it is important to get a complete perspective of both positives and negatives, especially for someone considering moving "for the long haul". Again, no hard feelings. I would like to visit Sweden, and I suggest the author do the same before committing to a long term move.

Hopefully he'll love it.

[Greek kamaki]

All these countries are good for Germanics.If you are Germanic Sweden will be a heaven though a bit boring.If you are not Germanic you have to adapt and change to Germanic.At first it is a shock you feel like shit but gradually you adapt to and you may like it.It is a certain sadomasochistic feeling after a while of living in Germany I searched for the pushing in buses,queues,the rudeness,Greeks seemed to me too scared and unimportant.I also craved for this brute power and control Germanics exercise without this you feel orphan when abroad.Anyway the Germanization issue is quite complicated and of course unfeminine.

[Vicious]

durangotang: Seriously, spare me the amateur psychology. Guys read a couple of posts from Roosh about jante law and suddenly believe they can categorize every action of a ethnic group.

My issue with your post was not the alternate view but rather how condescending it is to bring out a single source (which by your own admission isn't any good) and build some sort of case solely on that base.

I recommend anyone considering a stay (long/short) to read Laner, Luckystar and torontokids tripreports. You'll notice how little mention of jante law has made it into their posts.

[Saladin]

(03-25-2012 02:14 AM)Vicious Wrote:  

durangotang: Seriously, spare me the amateur psychology. Guys read a couple of posts from Roosh about jante law and suddenly believe they can categorize every action of a ethnic group.

My issue with your post was not the alternate view but rather how condescending it is to bring out a single source (which by your own admission isn't any good) and build some sort of case solely on that base.

I recommend anyone considering a stay (long/short) to read Laner, Luckystar and torontokids tripreports. You'll notice how little mention of jante law has made it into their posts.

Yeah, I wasn't in Sweden for a long time(A few days), but after dealing with Indians in India anything's good(You wanna talk about conformity, most Indian dudes think its a sin to kiss a girl). From my short experience there the Swedes seemed friendly and cool. The dudes I hung out with from the RSD forums were relaxed and chill. The girls were friendly.

If anything, the Finns are probably more conformist than the Swedes. The Iron Maiden concert in Helsinki was far more relaxed compared to Gothenburg's concert where people were pushing and generally getting in as close as possible. The Finns concert was very tame in comparison. Considering Iron Maiden is pretty mainstream there it seems like the young people in Sweden don't mind getting rowdy.

One thing the guys I hung out with in Sweden did mention was that Denmark's quality of girls was lower.

I'm hoping to spend a month there this summer if I can get everything on my end sorted out.

[Deluge]

A little while back I asked my Finnish ex who lived there till she was 11 about Jante Law. She'd never heard of it. It was completely new to her. Considering she speaks Finnish and Swedish and has visited often you'd think that if Jante Law is so important that she'd at least be aware of it...

I'm not saying it's not real, but people on the Forum place far too much importance to it.

[Roosh]

Not to get on Vicious, but Scandinavians are notoriously defensive about their countries. Do not ever get into a debate about their value of their homeland... you will strike up a lot of resentment even if you are correct.

[Greek kamaki]

They are also bitching about other Scandinavian countries.Ask a Swede what he believes about Norway and you will be surprised.They are backstabbing.

[Vicious]

(03-25-2012 09:24 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

Not to get on Vicious, but Scandinavians are notoriously defensive about their countries. Do not ever get into a debate about their value of their homeland... you will strike up a lot of resentment even if you are correct.

A wise man once wrote: As much as you hate your country, you will defend it if it’s criticized by a foreigner.

[The Fantasist]

I'm interested to know more about the Swedes and their distaste for ostentatiousness and overt signs of wealth. I never knew that about them. I think it's a good quality but one I find hard to instil in myself. What do they spend their money on? Are luxury brands not popular over there in regards to cars/clothes etc.?

[ElJefe]

(03-25-2012 11:09 AM)Vorkuta Wrote:  

I'm interested to know more about the Swedes and their distaste for ostentatiousness and overt signs of wealth. I never knew that about them. I think it's a good quality but one I find hard to instil in myself. What do they spend their money on? Are luxury brands not popular over there in regards to cars/clothes etc.?

Let's get ONE thing straight for all you guys who don't know or don't understand.

Don't buy this "Jante Law" crap or distaste of showing great wealth. It is an oversimplification from people who can't wrap their head around the finer cultural differences. Jante Law is a myth. End of story.

Modesty is a virtue in most Christian countries, America as well as here. Envy is a vice common to all peoples. Entitlement culture is rife in the US as well as Europe. People will always have an incentive to demand something for nothing through the political system.

Scandinavians would flaunt wealth just like you see people in American do. They would all drive gas-guzzling cars, get fat, you name it. The cultural differences are negligeable. The difference is they can't afford it.

Scandinavians do not have anywhere near the after-tax purchasing power of the American middle class. It is blatantly obvious your median American has consumer options an order of magnitude larger than your median Scandinavian. The US is a favorite destination precisely because value for money is so much higher.

But the overall tax level for Scandinavian countries is roughly at 50%. Get that? 50% of production is diverted to government coffers. In the US, that number is closer to 30%. Add to that purchasing power in the US is significantly higher, it's more value in so many ways (health care is a notable exception).

Private consumption in the US usually hovers around 70%. In Scandinavia, it's less than 50%.

It boils down to Scandinavians being prisoners of circumstance.

[Vicious]

(03-25-2012 11:09 AM)Vorkuta Wrote:  

I'm interested to know more about the Swedes and their distaste for ostentatiousness and overt signs of wealth. I never knew that about them. I think it's a good quality but one I find hard to instil in myself. What do they spend their money on? Are luxury brands not popular over there in regards to cars/clothes etc.?

It's a bit of an act. Flaunting can be fine, but it has to be done with tact. You never speak of someone's income level for example.

[Eliogabalus]

(03-24-2012 05:11 PM)Greek kamaki Wrote:  

All these countries are good for Germanics.If you are Germanic Sweden will be a heaven though a bit boring.If you are not Germanic you have to adapt and change to Germanic.At first it is a shock you feel like shit but gradually you adapt to and you may like it.It is a certain sadomasochistic feeling after a while of living in Germany I searched for the pushing in buses,queues,the rudeness,Greeks seemed to me too scared and unimportant.I also craved for this brute power and control Germanics exercise without this you feel orphan when abroad.Anyway the Germanization issue is quite complicated and of course unfeminine.

Well yes, thats why british and americans get a bit of culture shock when they go to places like Sweden because they dont realize how latin and french influenced their own societies (be it Uk, US, Canada, etc) are until they live in true germanic countries. I mean by true germanic, countries where men rarely flirt (or at least they dont openly hunt women in that way), where a hot blonde is just an average girl walking on street who nobody puts her on a pedestal and/or gives her special attention (unlike in the Us/canada and most of the UK where blondes get special treat, more so natural ones), a country where nobody feel the need to behave too polite to avoid hurting others in contrasto to being way more direct and tell things how they really are. That applies to countries like Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Netherlands, Finland (although it isnt germanic speking it shares its characteristic), Iceland, and Germany in lesser degree.

[Roosh]

(03-25-2012 09:57 AM)Vicious Wrote:  

(03-25-2012 09:24 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

Not to get on Vicious, but Scandinavians are notoriously defensive about their countries. Do not ever get into a debate about their value of their homeland... you will strike up a lot of resentment even if you are correct.

A wise man once wrote: As much as you hate your country, you will defend it if it’s criticized by a foreigner.

More like an insecure man. You've just announced to the forum never to accept your opinions at Sweden at face value because you have some strange need to defend it like a mother defends her baby. This forum is a place where we can share impartial information, not where patriots can attack others for saying "mean" things. How are you not different than the Danish girls who defended Denmark to death but was the first to attack Polish girls?

[Pilgrim37]

(03-25-2012 11:09 AM)Vorkuta Wrote:  

I'm interested to know more about the Swedes and their distaste for ostentatiousness and overt signs of wealth. I never knew that about them. I think it's a good quality but one I find hard to instil in myself. What do they spend their money on? Are luxury brands not popular over there in regards to cars/clothes etc.?

Well,when they get rich I wouldn't count on the lack of ostentation.

I worked doing removals in London for years and London has a lot of rich Swedes living here avoiding Swedish taxes,also rich Danes .

All lived in Phat houses..Ferraris were present in many cases.

A guy called Rausing who we worked for...whose Dad invented Tetrapak (the special cartons for fruit juice) owns a whole valley in the countryside here...and his whole family live here...worth around £6 Billion.

The general culture might be more tasteful..but believe me they like to live well...even if they don't choose to have Gold taps in the bathroom like the Gulf Arabs.

[Vicious]

(03-25-2012 06:43 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

(03-25-2012 09:57 AM)Vicious Wrote:  

(03-25-2012 09:24 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

Not to get on Vicious, but Scandinavians are notoriously defensive about their countries. Do not ever get into a debate about their value of their homeland... you will strike up a lot of resentment even if you are correct.

A wise man once wrote: As much as you hate your country, you will defend it if it’s criticized by a foreigner.

More like an insecure man. You've just announced to the forum never to accept your opinions at Sweden at face value because you have some strange need to defend it like a mother defends her baby. This forum is a place where we can share impartial information, not where patriots can attack others for saying "mean" things. How are you not different than the Danish girls who defended Denmark to death but was the first to attack Polish girls?

Roosh, I was quoting you. It was completely tongue-in-cheek.

Oops?

[Roosh]

Jesus, I don't even remember my own words. When I wrote that it was about people's behavior, not myself, but yeah... I'm going to go sit down somewhere and stare at the wall now.

[Laner]

I budgeted myself 15,000 Kronor a month in Sweden (about $2000). This is for rent, food, and general expenses. It does not count train tickets or plane tickets or lift tickets.

Essentially I live well on this budget, and I am OK blowing it to fly to the Alps for skiing (I am in Austria right now).

Sweden is not that expensive if you dont go out and drink.

If you are pulling in KR20,000 a month you will have fun but will be on a strict budget.

[Greek kamaki]

(03-25-2012 06:43 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

(03-25-2012 09:57 AM)Vicious Wrote:  

(03-25-2012 09:24 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

Not to get on Vicious, but Scandinavians are notoriously defensive about their countries. Do not ever get into a debate about their value of their homeland... you will strike up a lot of resentment even if you are correct.

A wise man once wrote: As much as you hate your country, you will defend it if it’s criticized by a foreigner.

More like an insecure man. You've just announced to the forum never to accept your opinions at Sweden at face value because you have some strange need to defend it like a mother defends her baby. This forum is a place where we can share impartial information, not where patriots can attack others for saying "mean" things. How are you not different than the Danish girls who defended Denmark to death but was the first to attack Polish girls?

I think you insulted their sensitivities for telling them for example the only thing you liked were the kebab shops.Those shops are considered low shit in these countries they are meant for cheap people who do not have money to pay for real food and they are considered of dubious quality.Their connection with Turks and Arabs does not help either.A Dane is naturally proud of their seafood like herrings etc.It sounds sarcastic and aggressive in their ears to talk to them about kebab shops.
Also polish girls have a rotten reputation all over Europe(ask the UK members what is the public opinion about them) mainly because they get involved with third worldlers and many sell their body for money and other dubious arrangements so you really ran into a wall of prejudices basically you took in face the hard wall of Scandinavian Viking superiority how to call it in English?
When talking to Germanics any praise of Slavs is forbidden.You can praise the Mediteraneans in a degree the Italians for food architecture but this is how long as it gets.The rest does not get accepted in Germanic world.