[Tank_]

Lots of threads on where the hottest girls are, or the easiest girls are, best layouts for getting results, and so on, but what about for an aspiring player, where should he visit and/or live in order to, basically, get the most time-in-set possible?

So let's say a guy with average looks, income, and general social skills is looking to work on his game. Obviously he needs to approach a lot because he needs to fuck up a lot and test lots of things, etc. so places where he can day and night game consistently and regularly.

So good characteristics:
1) Nightlife 7 nights a week and year-round
2) Good ratios.
3) Lots of foot traffic year-round during the day and/or good weather

Some potential limitations:
1) Night and day life shuts down in winter or in summer
2) Clubs with good ratios are difficult to get into
3) Mixed sets at tables type of nightlife
4) Preponderance of small bars and clubs

I have traveled a lot and there are actually not many places like this!

Most European cities have a Thur-Sat nightlife thing going on. College towns shut down in summer (major Polish cities). Beach cities (Socal) and places just too miserably cold (Chicago, Scandanavia) shut down in winter.

Kiev seems to have good nightlife at least Tue-Sat, and the high baseline quality of the girls makes daygame possible everywhere. Not sure how it is in winter. Of course you'll be learning to game in Russian (for better or worse, meaning you can improve with hot Russian-speaking babes, but there are more English speaking girls around the world).

New York seems quite good, lots of people everywhere all day. Some meat market clubs that are decent and not hard to get into. Need to know which places are good, though. The dive bar scene is not so good for ratios.
Sydney is also 7 nights a week, gets lots of tourists, is big and has good weather. A bit far to travel to regularly from most places, but for living there seems good.

London nightlife sucks, even though daygame wise Oxford street is quite target-rich.

Miami has good weather year-round, I hear, and in general I hear good things, but I haven't been.

I guess ideally you have a primary home with an abundance of students for spring and fall, and then go settle somewhere else for summer, and another place for winter. If you have a job where you can do that.

[Every10GivesMeA10]

Why do people keep looking for 'best' this and 'best' that? You can learn game anywhere.

[jasond]

Las Vegas and New York would be the best places to learn. Compact, and filled with targets day/night, every day of the year.

[BishesMyron]

If you are looking to learn Game, look for places with most receptive and friendliest girls not places with non-stop nightlife. I would completely cross off countries like Spain where mostly you'll be instantly blown out because of the language barrier

[pitt]

(12-07-2013 10:29 AM)BishesMyron Wrote:  

If you are looking to learn Game, look for places with most receptive and friendliest girls not places with non-stop nightlife. I would completely cross off countries like Spain where mostly you'll be instantly blown out because of the language barrier

This

I would say London is the best city to learn game. They are the most approachable girls I have ever met even though is not the easiest city to close. But you are guaranteed to get lots of numbers and given the opportunity to flirt with these girls.

The flakeness of London girls also help to overcome emotional feelings. You will get so used to flakeness that you won't give a fuck because you will have a next chick to hit on.

Also british girls have good social manners, seriously, i can't think of a better city to learn day game.

[TheBMan]

DC. If you can survive there you can survive anywhere.

[runsonmagic]

Like anything...

1) Read all you can.
2) Test what you learn in real life.
3) Keep what works for you.
4) Practice regularly.

That's it.

Different places are different for different people. I learned in San Francisco. A lot of people hate that city, but it was perfect for me. It's got the full range from beta programmers, to cultish "sex-positive" teacher, from ugly feminist to gorgeous college girls. You get to decide who you wanna be.

[Tank_]

Every10,
You can't learn game if you don't live in a place that's target rich day and night every day year-round. If, say, you devote 20 hours a week to learning game, and you can only find 10 girls to talk to in that time, you will not improve.

jasond,
I would figure Las Vegas would be great for night game but not so much day. There are not so many locals wandering around by themselves. But yes, for night it seems ideal especially to learn SNL game.

BishesMyron,
Good point. Extensive understanding of English is another prerequisite.

pitt,
London is great for daygame, Oxford St is quite epic in that regard, but I have generally found the night game to be quite poor. Bad ratios, dull on weekdays, small venues, etc.

TheBMan,
Ha. Or you'd just get discouraged. I think the bad ratios at night thing would put a no to that. If you go to a bar/club and there are simply no or very few available women to talk to, you're not going to improve.

runsonmagic,
SF? I think having a general baseline of decent quality to be quite necessary. I mean, if all you see are 5s and 6s, which is all you see in SF, then would you really develop your game for 7s, 8s and higher? Or do the 6s act like 8s in SF, so it doesn't matter?
I'd imagine daygame to be OK there (again, for 5s and 6s only), but I don't recall ever finding a decent night spot, but maybe it's one of those places where you really have to know where to go?

[Tenerife]

How about this. Go to a place that is really easy and have a lot o sex first. After that worry about 'game'. I care more about sex than developing game skill. Vegas is terrible if you don't have obese pockets. America in generL is a terrible place to learn game.

[Tank_]

Tenerife,
I don't think there really is such a place that is "very easy". I have never been to one, and browsing this forum it's a rule where there is no such thing as a pussy paradise, in the sense of attractive women throwing themselves at you.
But if there was one, then how would it be helpful, once you leave said paradise and girls are no longer clamoring for your D?

[InternationPlayboy]

I can't decide if Miami would or wouldn't be a good place to learn game. It's definitely the best of the best and will bring you the most challenge. It may also make you loose hope though, as it can take a while to figure the place out. I definitely think Miami improved my game though, and when I'm other places it feels much easier to game.

Also, gaming in other countries in other languages. If you bang a broad in Spanish, you should have no trouble banging broads in English. It will really test your game, especially the other parts of gaming that don't just have to do with talking, such as body language and kino.

[mbare]

I agree, you can learn game anywhere. As far as meeting the criteria you stated...

Since you're from an EU country, I'd stay in the EU.

Check out Roosh's breakdown on Ukraine VS Poland. You have major cities for year-round nightlife in the winter, and costal cities for the summer.

Catania, Sicily meets most of your requirements...I pulled well there but I was fairly connected, lived there, and spoke the language.

Budapest has nightlife all year long.

But compared to the normal places people have brought up, I'D recommend Slovenia for the winter time, then one of the happening places in Croatia. Both countries are incredibly nice and the women are very approachable and attractive.

People praise EE so much not because it's necessarily easy to pull, or the best place to learn game, but your chance of getting a quality girl is much higher.

[birdrussell]

I would argue for Spain. Nice weather, good looking talent and if you want to LEARN game then start where it's a bit of an uphill battle. I speak horrible Spanish but I'm learning and I put myself out there. If you approach, the chicks will talk. It's also humbling and builds strength. I was at gold in puerta this weekend and kept getting luke warm responses so I made it my mission to get shot down for the rest of the evening it taught me something I hadn't dealt with a whole lot of for a while. If you get rejected then move on. It's alright if every chick in the world doesn't want me inside of her at that moment. That's why it's called "game" and not "sure". over time you'll develop a system that works. I see plenty of Americans over here who have there shit together pulling with barely a working knowledge of the language and culture.

[Tank_]

InternationalPlayboy,
OK. I guess with respect to difficulty it should be at a level where you at least have a fighting chance. One good thing is that the game is fairly lopsided in difficulty, as in doing the first 10 minutes right is far more important and far more difficult then the last couple hours. Not that there's not skill involved in end-game, but if your front game is tight then wherever you are you can hook enough to work on your mid and end game.
But if your front game is a complete trainwreck and you go somewhere that is very hard, that may be pointless. If you get blown out before opening your mouth every single approach, you won't learn much. So it can be hard, but not too hard. Women should at least be generally polite and engage you in a short conversation if your initial approach is above average.
Not sure if this is the case in Miami/Sobe or not?

Gaming in other languages: probably an interesting/useful exercise, but to do every now and then, not regularly when learning game. That's why I hesitate with saying Ukraine is a good place to learn, despite the excellent nightlife.

mbare,
OK. So maybe there is no one single place in europe, but it's better to be in a solid EE capital most of the year, and go camp out on the coast in the summer?
Do the university cities of Poland not shut down in winter, due to exams? (same for Slovenia?)

No one speaks English in sicily, honestly. Also I didn't find much foot traffic when I was in Palermo.

I've heard good things about Budapest overall, but the datasheets here seem to suggest mixed messages.

birdrussell,
I was under the impression that practically no one spoke English in Spain?

Also I'd have thought the difficulty to be crippling, as in, if you're not in a girl's social circle, you can't get a word in?

[InternationPlayboy]

I guess it all just depends what kind of learner you are. For some people it's easier to learn in extreme conditions. For example, when I moved to the mountains, a lot of the people I met were exponentially better than me at riding. Having to try and keep up with them made me fast quick. I doubt that I would have learned so fast had I been riding with people on my level.

[Christian McQueen]

Do you want to be a shark or a goldfish?

Las Vegas hands down would be a great place to learn because you have non-stop girls as 'targets' 24/7.

Cost of living is cheap too, plus you have La 3hrs away.

Regardless of where, better to dive right in and become a shark in the ocean then a goldfish in a bowl.

Cats who brag about being the big man on their city is well and good, until you find out they're from Zanesville and to be honest, no one gives a flying fuck.

It'll be harder in the beginning, but if you can pull in LA, Vegas, Miami or NYC CONSISTENTLY, then you can pull anywhere in the world.

[zatara]

I'll probably get a lot of flak from the American members of this forum but I think 2nd tier U.S. cities are by far the best for this. Especially if you're a foreigner.

American girls have many, many faults but theyre incredibly open to being chatted to in bars compared to Europeans or even other English speakers. A very good looking American girl will talk to you for a couple of minutes even if she has no interest just to be polite, in my experience. This means if you go to to a 2nd tier U.S. city with a big state university and if you've a foreign accent at the very least you'll get talking to girls and learn things fast. If you tried opening similar looking girls in hotspots like Ibiza or Dubai (or even first tier U.S. cities like Miami) they'll just look at you in disgust unless you've got one of looks/money/game really locked down.

Places like Minneapolis and Austin were great for me in this regard.

(I'm not going to include Asian countries at all in this analysis because to be honest, you don't need game in somewhere like Thailand. If you're white and well put together you'll be fighting off the locals. This isn't much use for learning game useful elsewhere in the world).

[WestCoast]

DC, Seattle, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Toronto

Feel the pain of learning in the gutter or regret the decisions you made when you were younger.

[Tank_]

McQueen,
I agree on the 1st tier city thing. Vegas has been mentioned, and yeah I agree to a degree, but it's only night game, from what I understand. (pool parties are night game in the daytime)

zatara,
Probably depends a lot on the second tier city, but I think in many cases you'll be limited. Even if they are friendly, you may only have them going out thur-sat, and no place with enough people for daygame.

[Tenerife]

OP, what is roughly your current notch count?

And what kind of outcome do you want?

[Jeans]

I may be biased since I learned game in nyc, but I can't think of how any place on earth could be better. Literally millions of girls across every age/race/niche/income etc. Thousands of bars in dozens of neighborhoods/niches open until 4am every night of the week, and there's always something popping off somewhere.

Furthermore, on average I think you will see the full gamut of possibilities in American female attitudes here. From the most vile, profane, status-obsessed stuck up cunts, to the sweethearts who just moved here from wisonsin or whatever and are scared and lonely and submissive and insecure. In the process of learning game in nyc I think you can truly figure out who you are as a man and what all your strengths and weaknesses are.

[mbare]

(12-07-2013 03:22 PM)Tank_ Wrote:  

InternationalPlayboy,
OK. I guess with respect to difficulty it should be at a level where you at least have a fighting chance. One good thing is that the game is fairly lopsided in difficulty, as in doing the first 10 minutes right is far more important and far more difficult then the last couple hours. Not that there's not skill involved in end-game, but if your front game is tight then wherever you are you can hook enough to work on your mid and end game.
But if your front game is a complete trainwreck and you go somewhere that is very hard, that may be pointless. If you get blown out before opening your mouth every single approach, you won't learn much. So it can be hard, but not too hard. Women should at least be generally polite and engage you in a short conversation if your initial approach is above average.
Not sure if this is the case in Miami/Sobe or not?

Gaming in other languages: probably an interesting/useful exercise, but to do every now and then, not regularly when learning game. That's why I hesitate with saying Ukraine is a good place to learn, despite the excellent nightlife.

mbare,
OK. So maybe there is no one single place in europe, but it's better to be in a solid EE capital most of the year, and go camp out on the coast in the summer?
Do the university cities of Poland not shut down in winter, due to exams? (same for Slovenia?)

No one speaks English in sicily, honestly. Also I didn't find much foot traffic when I was in Palermo.

I've heard good things about Budapest overall, but the datasheets here seem to suggest mixed messages.

birdrussell,
I was under the impression that practically no one spoke English in Spain?

Also I'd have thought the difficulty to be crippling, as in, if you're not in a girl's social circle, you can't get a word in?

To your first question: Yes.

There's a lot of data on countries that are still good in the winter. Exams don't last that long. I didn't go to Poland, but from friends and what others have noted, it's good in the winter (pick the city wisely), and Gdansk is good in the summer.

Mixx wrote a great datasheet on Slovenia. I was there in the winter...although small, there are a lot of opportunities.

Sicily: True, very few people speak english. If you don't want to learn the language don't bother. P.s. Palermo was the wrong city. Horrible place. Catania is where it's at. Check my data sheet if you want. http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-28651.html

I did well in Budapest, attractive women, and they have plenty of nightlife. That's why I give it +1.

[DjembaDjemba]

Toronto, specifically the downtown area of the city is a great place to learn game.

It has great volume of beautiful women walking, plenty of big egos, other men with tight game and big bankrolls, super educated bitchy females, an ethnic hodgepodge of ins and outs, and a dichotomy of cultural beliefs - the artsy hipsterism and the anglo stoicism.

Toronto teaches you patience. Not just in gaming females, but also gaming a whole system.

[RXB]

Anywhere in the United States.

I'm serious.

The United States has a ton of foreign girls, there's plenty of diversity, and you're almost always within a day's drive of a major city.

I live in the Midwest, not Chicago, and have still gotten a ton of flags and notches from my nights out. You can spend two weeks learning to pull in a small town, then hit up a campus for homecoming the next weekend, Later you can go to a suburban mall and develop your daygame, then spend the night partying in a major city.

People like to knock the states because of the learning curve. Once you figure it out things become a cakewalk.

[Tank_]

Tenerife,
Current notch count is high but not "elite" (between 50 and 100), but my cold approach game is actually very poor. I'm trying to improve both my day and night game considerably, as my approach to lay rate is pitiful. I traveled a lot this year, but found it hard to get results in short (one-two) weeks visits, and also found some places much better than others in getting lots of approaches in, and so I'm trying to build a list of places that would be good for me to aim towards being at in the next 5-10 years or so for extended periods of time, both to live and to travel for long periods of time to, if I am so able to.

Jeans,
Makes sense about New York. It does seem like a good place to learn.

mbare,
Thanks for the info. I'll keep Poland, Budapest and Slovenia in mind for the future, in winter and in general. I have not been to any of those yet.

Djemba,
I would have thought from what Roosh was saying, that the clubs will have 8-1 ratios, so you won't even be able to meet them.

RXB,
I wouldn't say that's true, not just anywhere in the US. You won't find enough passably attractive women in the northwest (the Bay, Portland, Seattle), winter will be slow day and nightlife in Socal and the midwest (for different reasons). Many cities not having an abundance of targets, or not having enough universities for street game out of just not being big enough. For truly year-round all week opportunities, I'd think you'd be limited to New York, Miami, Houston, Dallas, Los Angeles (with december-january being barely scraping in your approaches), and maybe New Orleans, and Vegas for night game