[jariel]

Quote:

Arizona's Supreme Court on Tuesday ruled that a city council candidate with limited English language skills can be kept off the ballot in a largely bilingual town on the Mexico border.

A Yuma County Superior Court judge touched off a furor last week when he disqualified Alejandrina Cabrera, 35, from running for city council in the town of San Luis over what he called a "large gap" between her English proficiency and that required to serve as a public official.

In a brief two-page ruling, the Arizona Supreme Court did not give a reason why it sided with the lower court, but said a written decision would follow "in due course."

The controversy has swept San Luis, a sleepy farming town hugging the Arizona-Mexico border, into the incendiary national debate over immigration.

Immigrant rights activists called such language-based restrictions hostile to immigrants, potentially driving a wedge between Latino communities and the rest of American society.

Interesting story given that she was born in the U.S. and graduated from high school in the U.S.

As a Spanish-speaking person, I sympathize with her plight, but reality is, her inability to speak English proficiently already keeps her out of a number of more menial positions, so I understand why it would keep her from serving as a City Council member.

Let's look at this from the other end.

There isn't one country in Latin America that you could do what she's trying to do without the ability to speak Spanish proficiently.

[durangotang]

"Immigrant rights activists called such language-based restrictions hostile to immigrants, potentially driving a wedge between Latino communities and the rest of American society."

Lol. I'll tell you what drives a wedge between latino communities and American society, and it's the exact opposite of this P.C. crap - it's not learning the language of the country you're living in. Even more pathetic is the fact that she was born here. Political correctness takes everything logical and twists it completely around.

[Hotwheels]

Isn't the US the only country without an official language?

Having one would help avoid situations like this. But of course Congress would never pass such a thing due to it being political suicide for many of them.

[Moma]

(02-08-2012 03:32 AM)Hotwheels Wrote:  

Isn't the US the only country without an official language?

Having one would help avoid situations like this. But of course Congress would never pass such a thing due to it being political suicide for many of them.

Are you serious? I thought the official language in the US was English??!!

[ColSpanker]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-LWw0qFV...re=related

[Pilgrim37]

(02-08-2012 12:39 AM)jariel Wrote:  

Quote:

Arizona's Supreme Court on Tuesday ruled that a city council candidate with limited English language skills can be kept off the ballot in a largely bilingual town on the Mexico border.

A Yuma County Superior Court judge touched off a furor last week when he disqualified Alejandrina Cabrera, 35, from running for city council in the town of San Luis over what he called a "large gap" between her English proficiency and that required to serve as a public official.

In a brief two-page ruling, the Arizona Supreme Court did not give a reason why it sided with the lower court, but said a written decision would follow "in due course."

The controversy has swept San Luis, a sleepy farming town hugging the Arizona-Mexico border, into the incendiary national debate over immigration.

Immigrant rights activists called such language-based restrictions hostile to immigrants, potentially driving a wedge between Latino communities and the rest of American society.

Interesting story given that she was born in the U.S. and graduated from high school in the U.S.

As a Spanish-speaking person, I sympathize with her plight, but reality is, her inability to speak English proficiently already keeps her out of a number of more menial positions, so I understand why it would keep her from serving as a City Council member.

Let's look at this from the other end.

There isn't one country in Latin America that you could do what she's trying to do without the ability to speak Spanish proficiently.

"There isn't one country in Latin America that you could do what she's trying to do without the ability to speak Spanish proficiently."

Perfect sentence and argument.

[canucktraveller]

(02-08-2012 09:46 AM)Pilgrim37 Wrote:  

(02-08-2012 12:39 AM)jariel Wrote:  

Quote:

Arizona's Supreme Court on Tuesday ruled that a city council candidate with limited English language skills can be kept off the ballot in a largely bilingual town on the Mexico border.

A Yuma County Superior Court judge touched off a furor last week when he disqualified Alejandrina Cabrera, 35, from running for city council in the town of San Luis over what he called a "large gap" between her English proficiency and that required to serve as a public official.

In a brief two-page ruling, the Arizona Supreme Court did not give a reason why it sided with the lower court, but said a written decision would follow "in due course."

The controversy has swept San Luis, a sleepy farming town hugging the Arizona-Mexico border, into the incendiary national debate over immigration.

Immigrant rights activists called such language-based restrictions hostile to immigrants, potentially driving a wedge between Latino communities and the rest of American society.

Interesting story given that she was born in the U.S. and graduated from high school in the U.S.

As a Spanish-speaking person, I sympathize with her plight, but reality is, her inability to speak English proficiently already keeps her out of a number of more menial positions, so I understand why it would keep her from serving as a City Council member.

Let's look at this from the other end.

There isn't one country in Latin America that you could do what she's trying to do without the ability to speak Spanish proficiently.

"There isn't one country in Latin America that you could do what she's trying to do without the ability to speak Spanish proficiently."

Perfect sentence and argument.

Brazil?





hah, don't mind me, just being a jerk

[kosko]

It sucks but if your going to be a public official you have to be skilled in both languages if your running in a bilingual place. Politicians in Canada can't run for national leadership if they can't speak french.

[Gmac]

She's also fat.

[Hotwheels]

(02-08-2012 03:40 AM)Moma Wrote:  

(02-08-2012 03:32 AM)Hotwheels Wrote:  

Isn't the US the only country without an official language?

Having one would help avoid situations like this. But of course Congress would never pass such a thing due to it being political suicide for many of them.

Are you serious? I thought the official language in the US was English??!!

Serious as a heart attack. The US has no officially mandated language.

[kosko]

It makes sense tho as it would be dumb for America to list England's language as their language. Also the USA isn't a Christian nation either as most neo-cons would have you believe, the founding fathers we're mostly Quakers or some shit.

[Caligula]

(02-08-2012 07:21 PM)kosko Wrote:  

It makes sense tho as it would be dumb for America to list England's language as their language. Also the USA isn't a Christian nation either as most neo-cons would have you believe, the founding fathers we're mostly Quakers or some shit.

Yeah and it's really dumb for Latin American countries to list Spain's language as their language. Or for Brazil to list Portugal's language as its language

There needs to be an official language and people need to be encouraged to learn it. Otherwise they'll be left behind and be severely limited in the opportunities they have in life. It's not that fucking hard to learn English, especially if you have to learn it at school.

[Blackhawk]

The official language of the US is "American". It's distinct from "English". Which makes sense since there's far more speakers of American than there are of English.

There's entire dictionaries devoted to American. For those that still buy dead tree books.

http://www.amazon.com/Oxford-American-Di...0195392884



The way most people first came across this distinction is when the Harry Potter series had to be translated from English to American, with the American translation coming out 9 months later for books 1-3. But scholars have been making a distinction between English and American for decades.

[Hooligan Harry]

Bwhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

So what do I speak? Australian? I must do, because we also have out own Australian dictionary too. Take that mother England!



What about my sheep shagging cousins in New Zealand? Do they speak New Zealandian? Sounds pretty exotic.

Dude the translations are for differences in spelling and slight variations in grammar. There is no such thing as American or Australian, they are dialects. We killed all the people who spoke American and Australian or put them in camps.

I guess they speak American in the Philippines as American dialects are taught in the Philippines. Someone notify those motherfuckers immediately! They keep telling everyone their official language is English, when it actual fact its 'Merican!

[Screwston]

Doesn't surprise me if she's from a border town. You can get by in those places without ever really speaking English.

[Goldin Boy]

(02-08-2012 07:21 PM)kosko Wrote:  

It makes sense tho as it would be dumb for America to list England's language as their language. Also the USA isn't a Christian nation either as most neo-cons would have you believe, the founding fathers we're mostly Quakers or some shit.

The United States is what is referred to as Anglo-America i.e. the English-speaking part of the Americas where culture was primarily influenced by English customs/traditions as opposed to Latin America. Quakers are Christians btw.

[Blackhawk]

Quote:

So what do I speak? Australian?

Yes, it is widely recognized that Australians speak Australian English.

Quote:

Take that mother England!

Americans have fought two wars with England, so perhaps we take our independence a bit more seriously than Australians do. You guys still have the Queen on your currency.

Quote:

There is no such thing as American or Australian, they are dialects.

By some standards, Italian, French and Spanish are just dialects of Latin. Regardless, foreign language students today study American English separate from British English. Likewise communication majors in America work at eliminating their regional accents and speaking in Standard Media Accent, which is distinct from the BBC pronouncation.

Quote:

the founding fathers we're mostly Quakers or some shit

I think you need to check your sources on that. Of the 204 Founding Fathers, it appears only 7 of them were Quakers. Which makes sense --it's rather hard to be a revolutionary when you're also a conscientious objector to war. I'm rather surprised there were any Quakers at all among their ranks.

[Hooligan Harry]

Italian, Spanish and French are different languages bro. If someone spoke Italian to a Frenchman, he would not understand him. If we spoke to each other, we would understand each other perfectly because its the same language. English has a basis in Latin too dude.

You speak ENGLISH, not American. American does not exist. There is an American English dialect, just like the is a Colombian Spanish dialect or a Brazilian Portuguese dialect, but they are not different languages.

I dont quite see how its a direct assault on your liberties to call the language you speak English when you do in fact, speak English.

[canucktraveller]

(02-09-2012 12:23 AM)Hooligan Harry Wrote:  

Italian, Spanish and French are different languages bro. If someone spoke Italian to a Frenchman, he would not understand him. If we spoke to each other, we would understand each other perfectly because its the same language. English has a basis in Latin too dude.

You speak ENGLISH, not American. American does not exist. There is an American English dialect, just like the is a Colombian Spanish dialect or a Brazilian Portuguese dialect, but they are not different languages.

I dont quite see how its a direct assault on your liberties to call the language you speak English when you do in fact, speak English.

exactly, Americans and Canadians speak the exact same language (except for small pockets in both countries) but nobody would ever say we speak American.

[Blackhawk]

(02-09-2012 12:23 AM)Hooligan Harry Wrote:  

I dont quite see how its a direct assault on your liberties to call the language you speak English when you do in fact, speak English.

Now that's just being silly. I don't recall saying anything like that. But I do know a bit about linguistics. And I do deal with old documents from time to time.

Linguists classify "English" as evolving in the 5th century in Schleswig-Holstein as a mispronunciation of the Angles tribe name. It pre-dates the Great Vowel Shift of 1350-1500.

When a language has existed for 16 centuries, which version did lawmakers mean when they say "English"? Were they saying all laws now have to be written in 5th century English from before the Norman conquest words were added? Geoffrey Chaucer's 1350 version of English with its rather different spelling? Shakespeare's? The King James Bible's version of English with thees and thous? When you're passing a law you have to be specific.

And to prove their point, some idiot linguist rewrote several laws in 5th century English to show how unreadable "English" is to the modern public.

So the Bureaucrats changed it to "American". The Linguists rolled their eyes with disdain. But the bureaucrats were happy.

[Caligula]

It is the consensus among linguists that English is the language and American English is the dialect.

When states in the US legislate to give a language official status in those states (as 28 of them have done) they specify English as that language - http://www.languagepolicy.net/archives/langleg.htm

In 1969 Illinois even repealed a declaration of 'American' as the official state language and mandated English instead.

It looks like bureaucrats and linguists agree on this one.

Example:

Quote:

GENERAL STATUTES OF NORTH CAROLINA,
THROUGH 1992 SUPPLEMENT

§145-12. State Language.

(a) Purpose. – English is the common language of the people of the United States of America and the State of North Carolina. This section is intended to preserve, protect, and strengthen the English language, and not to supersede any of the rights guaranteed to the people by the Constitution of the United States or the Constitution of North Carolina.

(b) English as the Official Language of North Carolina. – English is the official language of the State of North Carolina.

[Moma]

(02-09-2012 12:23 AM)Hooligan Harry Wrote:  

Italian, Spanish and French are different languages bro. If someone spoke Italian to a Frenchman, he would not understand him. If we spoke to each other, we would understand each other perfectly because its the same language. English has a basis in Latin too dude.

You speak ENGLISH, not American. American does not exist. There is an American English dialect, just like the is a Colombian Spanish dialect or a Brazilian Portuguese dialect, but they are not different languages.

I dont quite see how its a direct assault on your liberties to call the language you speak English when you do in fact, speak English.

I agree with Harry..again. I have NO problem navigating in the U.S (apart from slight hiccups in the South) when cats bump into me and say 'My bad' instead of 'Excuse me' or 'Sorry'. This means it can't be another language since there is no way for one to wing it on another language if they do NOT know the other language. And I didn't grow up in America nor do my parents speak American. In fact, none of my parents speak American but strangely enough they can understand it and communicate back to the natives..as can I.

I never grew up on American english. It is English. All this desperation to set one aside from the British is rather strange from a logical perspective.

America might be the only country to call their 'dialect' an entirely different language. Correct me if I am wrong?

[Caligula]

(02-09-2012 12:03 PM)Moma Wrote:  

(02-09-2012 12:23 AM)Hooligan Harry Wrote:  

Italian, Spanish and French are different languages bro. If someone spoke Italian to a Frenchman, he would not understand him. If we spoke to each other, we would understand each other perfectly because its the same language. English has a basis in Latin too dude.

You speak ENGLISH, not American. American does not exist. There is an American English dialect, just like the is a Colombian Spanish dialect or a Brazilian Portuguese dialect, but they are not different languages.

I dont quite see how its a direct assault on your liberties to call the language you speak English when you do in fact, speak English.

I agree with Harry..again. I have NO problem navigating in the U.S (apart from slight hiccups in the South) when cats bump into me and say 'My bad' instead of 'Excuse me' or 'Sorry'. This means it can't be another language since there is no way for one to wing it on another language if they do NOT know the other language. And I didn't grow up in America nor do my parents speak American. In fact, none of my parents speak American but strangely enough they can understand it and communicate back to the natives..as can I.

I never grew up on American english. It is English. All this desperation to set one aside from the British is rather strange from a logical perspective.

America might be the only country to call their 'dialect' an entirely different language. Correct me if I am wrong?

I noticed that a lot of Latin Americans call their language castellano rather than espanol, in reference to the region of Spain where the language we call Spanish originated.

Not sure if this is an attempt at distance from the motherland or simply a quirk of the dialect.