[OregonToSoCal]

(06-27-2015 08:42 PM)Travesty444 Wrote:  

^ It sounds like you agree though that physical chemistry and great sex is the doorway to getting a ticket for the girl to open up enough to want a deeper connection.

I think fast sex is the direct express line to that doorway. You may not get sex on date 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6.... 14, but I think even with a girl that is open to a deeper connection you need to push hard for it at some point in every date.

If you haven't gone for a hard make out by mid way of date 2 at the very latest I think you are playing with fire. It doesn't matter if you get rejected, that's fine, as long as she is still there wanting to spend time with you it's good. The girl still needs to know you are coming at her with a head full of steam until she gives in. You can't let up. That's her job.

Travesty can you please elaborate on how you were able to get these women to see you again when you came close to having sex but it didn't quite happen? In my experience it's always been a one shot deal. I either get the bang or I'm dead. I keep hearing from people on here "go as far as you can, and if you come up short get the bang next time." The problem is there's NEVER a next time if I get them turned on but they refuse to give it up because of their no sex on the first, second date etc "rules". It makes me want to delay going for the bang until I know it's a slam dunk which goes completely against the advice you and others are giving.

If I knew I could give it my strongest shot and get a bj, finger her, get her off and then rest assured that I had a better than average shot of seeing her again 90% of my game issues would be solved. But it's just not the case in my personal experience...

[Travesty]

^
Summary:

The girls I get to bang me past one or several hard sex attempts are good (better) grounded girls. The ones that don't give me a second chance have high N-count and are more likely party girls. There is no magic.

Explanation:

Girls that are more grounded and have less sex partners will give you more chances because you are still a person to them and not a contestant. They actually are looking for a connection, they get horny like any girl but they don't judge you in such a one dimensional fashion.

If you are going after party girls or acting like a complete party guy you really aren't a person you are now a performer and you better perform by gaming well enough to bang them the first time you meet.

Also if there is a huge age difference you are now in the older man fantasy category for younger girls (for Western girls) so again you are put in a box where you better perform before they change their mind.

The more guys a girl bangs the more options she believes she has as locking down a solid LTR with less effort. Make no good sense to us, but we all know this. Very few girls are poseur good girls deep down that fuck around a lot then get remorseful and turn a dime.

The easiest girl to keep her attention and get her to fuck you after a rebuffed attempt may very well be a late bloomer virgin, or a girl that may only have had one beta LTR.

[civpro]

(06-28-2015 09:45 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(06-28-2015 04:04 AM)civpro Wrote:  

The OP deals with the obscure world of cold approach pickup and its own set of rules. For most ordinary men, this is how they should strategize landing a girlfriend/LTR/life partner:

- A girl they meet through a social circle/social introduction
- Of the same race
- Within +2/-5 years in age
- 5 inches shorter
- Of equal fitness level or slightly worse
- Of equal facial attractiveness or slightly better
- Of equal academic achievement or somewhat worse

Now you can fiddle with these specifications -
* Aim higher and have it increasingly harder. (The better your job is the higher you can legit aim.)
* Aim lower and have it increasingly easier.
* Turn to cold approach instead of social circle and have it harder to achieve the same quality.

So that's up to you. But the point is that the specifications set out above however - that archetype - is your societal "match". And at that level the hustle to results ratio is at its most optimized/efficient.

This makes no sense, sorry man. I'm talking about why sex is necessary to build a relationship, then you start talking about ideal matches via social circles. Your post is irrelevant, because even if she's an ideal match through a social circle you should still go for sex ASAP.

Also I've seen guys land way hotter through cold approach than what their social circle offers them.

How does this not make sense? How is it irrelevant? Just because you say so?

Your OP ponders, as per its title, "Do you want a LTR/girlfriend? Here's how to get one." My response provides the best answer for guys.

The body of your OP is coloured by your cold approach gangsta playa experiences and you offer up, even for social circle situations, the most common form of 'situation' in the world, in which, you know, people know each other, value each other, and see other routinely... a kamikaze FIRST DATE BANG OR BUST strategy that contemplates MASSIVE attrition rates where 95 times out of 100 you're written off wholesale as a disposable "rando". Durrrr OK.

If she's someone you met through a social circle then you DON'T need to go for sex ASAP. That's right. In fact, this divide is so pronounced that for certain people, who are in certain social circles, one can get into an LTR without even the occurrence of sex prior to it and for months subsequent and STILL have had a better chance with the girl than by coming in as the ruthless, systematic cold approacher.

If you're the common man who wants an LTR, and an LTR is exactly what you want and ALL you want, then aim for your socially introduced value-match as I specified. That's the best way to get it. You can use any type of sexual speed or game (within reason) and you're still better off LTR-wise than the PUA.

But if you want to be a player who runs through quantity based on his superior R-selection/'shininess' value, then that's what high volume cold approach pick up is for. As for guys dating up through cold approach, while it does happen from time to time, it is the exception to the rule, which in my experience is 8+/10 guys servicing girls in the 4-7/10 range. (Ever heard of the 80/20 rule?) For homegrown proof head on over to the +1 Notch thread, where you'll see that it's overwhelmingly notches from 1) Online Game - no debate on what that's all about, and 2) Nationality Game - Anglo guys banging foreigners, mainly Asians. Dating 'up' mainly comes out in social circles, where your character, status, and prospects can be vouched for and leveraged (over your looks) for LTRs.

[KorbenDallas]

For me, its depended on the girl. I've gotten second chances and also not gotten them.

Girls who give second chances I would disagree with ALWAYS being good girls. That hasn't been the case in my experience. Sluts are human too and can be forgiving if you are inexperienced if they like you. I'm not talking about ugly sluts either, for some reason good looking slutty girls tend to go for me.

I've never gotten the hot good girl in my life, so, I'm not big baller trolling, just being honest.

[Apollo21]

What makes a long term relationship? If you're talking about 2-3 years
then sex is simply not the dominant factor that's going to determine whether
you're going to have an LTR.

I think we can all agree that sex is necessary however the question is not how
to hookup with a girl...that's been answered many times. The question
is how to get into a relationship with a girl that's going to last 2-3 years
or more.

The truth is, it's harder to get LTR relationships. Sex is pretty easy...relationships
however are a completely different skillset. Sure you can have sex with a girl and hope
it works out. However that's not a strategy.

You have to consider other factors outside of sex if you're talking about a long term
relationship(i.e 2-3 years) Sex only plays a limited role in the beginning...eventually other factors
start to play a much more dominant role. That's why you have to consider them.

[TheMaleBrain]

Apollo21

My take on it, is that first - the girl has to be into you.
Second - you need to do stuff with her. Not just sex.
The more you hang out, go out and do activities - it solidifies the relationship.

I wrote a little bit about maintaining multi-LTR. You can browse there for some answers.

Apart from what I wrote there - Doing stuff is critical factor.
In order to have a relationship you must do stuff with her. I advise on going to meetups and couchsurfing events (free), as well as other type of "normal" dates.
You can also cook with her (if you are into it).

[Dalaran1991]

People be like discussing whether or not you need to bang her ASAP to get a LTR with her….

And I’m just like, you need to bang her ASAP if you want to SEE her again.

Except for my current LTR, where I didn’t bang first date but I still pushed hard for it, I NEVER had a second date with a girl I did not bang. Well, one, but it didn’t go anywhere and she was just a time waster.

Even if you bang her, there’s still no guarantee of seeing her again. How can you have a LTR if you don’t even fucking see the girl again?

Girls these days are so fucking ADHD, you would need to fill your sperm with concentrated Adderall and blow it all over her face and inside her so that she even remembers to text you back. And Im talking about Paris, where girls are still somewhat polite and some don’t have smartphone. I cant imagine how bad it is in USA.

Putting girls into nice and bad categories before the bang are fraudulent. You can calibrate to her vibe and decide HOW you want to go for the bang (cavemen, smooth and easy, alcohol, multiple venues change etc.) Deciding NOT to go for the bang because you think she is a nice girl/she wants a LTR is like worrying about how you need to dry clean that $6000 armani suit each month while you are a starving grad school slave. Its fucking dumb.

My ex LTR was a Korean church goer type, virgin before me. Should check all the boxes for “wine and dine and movie date for 6 months before sex” for most people. Hell, I approached her in the metro and SNL her. Then we were in a LTR for 8 months.

You might not always bang, but pushing for the bang ASAP with every girl do this: it screens out time wasters. My mentor taught me this and still I had to learn it the hard way: women are experts at wasting time, ours or theirs. If the girl likes you, even if you go too fast she WILL forgive you. If she doesn’t, better you waste one date than 3.

For LTR, you need leverage in order to get into one. Sex is basically the only leverage you have and even that its no guarantee nowadays.
Sure you can go slow, court her for a few weeks and wait until she’s done getting pumped and dumped by some bad boys then finally decide “I want a good guy”

[Apollo21]

It should be noted that LTR's are not guaranteed...just like anything in life,
they are a dance of expectations and chances.

Screening is important; knowing about yourself and knowing as much about your
ideal match as possible...having enough women to date so you have real options.

Put yourself in the strongest position to choose among many ideal women
and then having the skills to pursue a LTR when you have the right woman
gives you the best chances for success.

[General Mayhem]

I stumbled into my LTR after banging her on the first night. The morning after we were hanging out in the kitchen and I could tell she felt like a slut for giving up the pussy so easily. She was in such a weird mood that I didn't even want her phone number so I just gave her mine and made peace with the fact that I was probably never going to see her again.

Then she text me later that day and she has been chasing me ever since. That frame was set right away and hasn't changed. I think sex is important, but still second to having that chase frame.

Honestly though, I just got lucky.

Whatever bullshit they always say about how luck is when preparation meets opportunity is pretty fitting. I had been on a hot streak fucking bitches left and right and then I just happened on an opportunity. My game was at a high level when I met a girl who was LTR material and shit happened.

I don't really believe in calculating things out and screening bitches who you think are "good girls." That shit is just too much work. I believe in fucking lots of bitches. Eventually a good one will turn up.

[Deepdiver]

LOL I have had a number of LTRs usually 2 years or so before they drop the Cosmopolitan magazine 90 day clock - seems at the two year mark Cosmo tells all their SATC readers that they have to put you on a 90 day clock to force a commitment (Yeah a freaking Ring) or you are just enjoying free cream and will never buy the cow. In that case Cosmo was right - she would have to pass all of the ancient 5 Italian tests naturally without coaching for me to put a ring on it - I had a few make to step four but then all failed at step 5 - then I walk and next them all while chewing gum - I will say the breakup sex sessions were by and large epic - she wants to show you want you are about to lose...

[Russian Man]

Utterly true.

The words "I don't want a relationship" should be said on every single date a man goes on, no matter his intentions with the girl. This is true irrespective of culture and of the type of a girl. Same applies to a sweet Russian or even Muslim girl, the script must be flipped and the lover track should be indubitable. Being on the provider track is not only needy, but it also adds a bunch of "boyfriend requirements", since you will likely not meet because you are not part of her social circle, and likely have many other problems, not being local, not fluently speaking the language, job, background, etc. etc. Providership rarely means you get the girl, usually you just lose her between dates as she pegs you against all these requirements, which you don't meet, regardless of SMV. Often a nice-guy chump could actually beat a top player in this regard. On the lover track, it's all about fucking you, you just need to be attractive, and the faster you fuck her the less time she has to think things through and likely discard you. After sex the oxytocin comes in, the script is flipped, she starts chasing you, her emotions get tangled up over time (unless she is a slut, in which case you should be pumping and dumping anyway), eventually all her requirements go out the window and her only goal is to get the man with "commitment issues" to commit. He should drag this out as long as possible, and if he does commit, the girl will devouted to him.

Noobs often get the idea that "playing it safe" will get them the girl. Not only does it delay sex, but it makes it 10x more likely that said sex will never happen, and most of the time you'll simply lose the girl after the first or second date and never see her again.

[27YearOldAverageGame]

Bang them instantly? I wish this forum allowed pictures . None of the hot 8/10s are putting out on the first date. 7/10s and below yes but hot????? its just stupid to meet a high status girl for coffee or ice cream something and invite her back to your place... and expect her to have sex with you. come on now. are those claiming to fuck on the first date are banging cute girls yes. iv banged plenty of cute girls on the first date. but hot top girls? i dont think so. nor do i think its good to pressure these ones into sex on the first date.... almost an insult to their intelligence when you try it.

but i guess there are exceptiosn to everything. just feel it out... sometimes girls want a relationship not a date with someone who will play them.. so takei t easy the first date.. kiss her make out with her dance iwth her touchher... then be a gentleman and dont pressure her into sex... then second date bring it up.. but thats just me. i guess everyone has their own ways



another thing is why is the first post not talking about how to treat a girl?

you guys really think you will find a 9/10 model girl and not treat her good, not give her resturant meals. make her cook etc. ???????? this alpha shit doesnt work with them. its about treating them good if you want a long term relationship. thread mentions nothing about this..

i mean look at the models on instagram that post about their relatioships... waht their boyfriend did for them etc. this fuck them on the first date and alpha crap is for low quality woman. or one night stands...







i mean you answered it yourself OP.

"hey have to chase you, otherwise it doesn't work. Chasing a girl shows you're low value, "

why pressure(chase) her into having sex when you know you just met her and she is a high status girl(for sluts yes. but this is a thread about quality relationships with quality woman)

you want a relationship your game better be on point and you better treat her like a woman. make her wet first dont chase her to have sex with you... wait till she wants it just as bad as you do.. after the first date (If your goal is a relationship. if its just a slut, then by all means go try to fuck her and treat her like the slut on the first date. finger her pussy on the dance floor squeeze her ass etc but thread is about relationship worthy girls...)

but i agree... fuck the girl so good so she does come back for more. but i think you shouldnt rush it to much.. go with the flow... best for the 2nd date... unless your trying to make someones pump and dump your girlfriend