[saturo]

Hey ya'll. Read day bang... love it. Thanks Roosh... worth every penny.

So ...cold approaches are new to me. I've never had trouble with women but I've always met them through social circle. That takes too f-ing long.

I've done about 10 approaches at the grocery store. It's remarkable how well "is that any good?" works! Here's my problem though ...after the approach and opener there is a little back and forth about the item...... then the conversation reaches a point where my social instincts say that the conversation should end now.

Is it just me or is that a common sticking point? How do you get over that hump? ...maybe it's just in my head.

Example:

saturo: excuse me - is that green tea ice cream?
chick: yes
saturo: have you ever had it before... is it any good?
chick: it's really really good
saturo: what does it taste like?
chick: well... it tastes like green tea! But green tea with milk.
saturo: ahh OK that makes sense
chick: you should try some
saturo: I think I will

The last two lines to me seem like a natural end to the interaction... so I instinctively thank her and basically eject out of the conversation.

In hindsight I am thinking I should have said something about green tea being good for you or something along those lines?

[PDX]

Ask her more mindless questions... Is it very sweet? ... Do you think it would go well with (whatever you have in your basket)? It's not too fattening is it?

And then drop bait... "Good, because I developed a taste for green tea when I was hot air ballooning across Japan while teaching orphans how to read, and I'm always looking to get my fix."

Converse a bit more and then run GALNUC and you're out.

[saturo]

(02-02-2012 12:59 PM)PDX Wrote:  

Ask her more mindless questions... Is it very sweet? ... Do you think it would go well with (whatever you have in your basket)? It's not too fattening is it?

And then drop bait... "Good, because I developed a taste for green tea when I was hot air ballooning across Japan while teaching orphans how to read, and I'm always looking to get my fix."

Converse a bit more and then run GALNUC and you're out.

tks PDX

yeah... it's the transition from purposeful question to mindless ramble that is my sticking point right now... it's just totally foreign to my normal way of behaving in a social interaction with anyone.

lol ..."is it very sweet" didn't even occur to me.... even after the fact! I guess I need to just write down tons of mindless questions about different types of food and read through them just before I do approaches in the grocery store.

...baby steps

[Roosh]

Sounds like just a general ramble issue. I would start asking for general food questions or recipe advice. After a few minutes you can hit her with the "you don't seem like you're from here" line.

[saturo]

(02-02-2012 04:39 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

Sounds like just a general ramble issue. I would start asking for general food questions or recipe advice. After a few minutes you can hit her with the "you don't seem like you're from here" line.

Makes sense... how strong does the transition to another topic need to be? ...or should you always use some kind of bait to transition?

e.g. "I could serve this green tea ice cream for dessert with one of my stir frys... when I make stir frys the sauce is always watery... do you know any tricks to prevent that?"

Right now my rambling is pretty much at this level:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiAAFjbvOsM

[Roosh]

Sometimes the conversation naturally segues out. You don't need to force it, but generally it involves bait on a related topic.

You have to really enjoy the food conversation instead of thinking of how to get out of it. Toss bait occasionally to get it out, but I would spend at least 4 minutes on food before trying to change.

[germanico]

Aw, come on!

She was giving you tons of cues on where to take the conversation, and you dropped it. Quit with the excuses. There is no "natural end" to a conversation" just as conversations dont spontaneously start. You talk to someone because you want to, and you stop talking because you dont want to talk anymore.

Perhaps you have performance anxiety, and cut your convos short so you wont find out that you suck with women? Or perhaps you consider yourself boring and cut it short so she wont find out that you actually are boring?

saturo: what does it taste like?
chick: well... it tastes like green tea! But green tea with milk. <-- Well id figured out that much by myself. But, is it any good? You know, there are good teas and bad teas. Have you ever been to Starbucks? Well, of course you have... have you noticed how almost everyone orders a double orange-moka frapucchino? With Sprinkles... theres hardly any coffee in it. And there you have these people that starbucks hires to travel the world, to venture into rebel territory in third world countries so they can find the finest, organically grown hand picked fairest traded beans, ship them out to be processed daily and into your nearest store, only to have some trendy hipster smother the taste with half a pound of sweet and low. And it happens too with most of the food we eat everyday. Did you know carrots are originally brownish-yellow and wrinkly? Thats what carrots look in the wild. Thats what they should look like. And they taste just like carrots, but since they wouldnt look good at the grocery aisle, they made them smooth and orange. Like a traffic cone. We eat traffic cone salad everyday.
So its not about uniqueness anymore. Theres hardly anything original and different left in the world. Instead of celebrating different things, different tastes, different products, we try to standarize it all. Look around you. People. They all try to look the same, they all dress the same. They do their best effort not to stand out. And theres how you can tell unique people. They stand out. Even if they are not trying.
For example: you. Your looks. Cool dress. Nice shoes. Nice, but nothing out of the ordinary. Yet you make it work. And you might think people dont notice, but they do. And they might not know what they are looking at, but something makes them turn their heads. Have you noticed?
I like that. Tell me something about yourself.

[saturo]

@Roosh - k, understanding.

@germanico - yup my mind was a blank and I dropped it. No excuses. Suck with women? boring? nah... I'm confident with my inner game. I'm extremely new to cold approaches... I just don't know what the hell I'm doing yet.

To that end... in your example ramble you pivoted on tea... which allowed you to drop some small bait with your starbucks story. GREAT! This is the kind of pattern I need to get worked into my brain so it just flows when I'm in the moment... like autopilot.

You also threw in a "did you know" - also a nice device to keep things flowing.

[G Trooper]

Saturo,

Congrats on getting into my favorite place on earth to daygame.

From everything I've read in this thread, you are getting alot of Indirect Approaching advice which makes sense because that looks like the style you are using.

Personally, I always hit the girls with a direct approach...

Me: Excuse me (random hot chick), I just walked by and noticed you and wanted to come say hey.

Her: Oh, Hi.

Me: I'm _______ .... and so on.

[saturo]

@G Trooper - no kidding... I'll never look at a grocery store the same way again

RE: direct/indirect game... I'm staying as close to Day Bang as I can to get a first iteration on day game... i.e. totally indirect. After I can close a # or email I'll start experimenting. Once I get the girl on a date I'm solid.

A couple of field reports... both of these at an Asian grocery store (I'm white).

The first one was in the produce section... I just walked in.. grabbed my basket and quickly browsed towards her. (After doing this for a while now I learned that I have very low approach anxiety)

Saturo: excuse me
Cute chick: *moves out of the way* oh sorry! (lol)
Saturo: *laughing* no I mean can you help me?
CC: smiling
Saturo: How do you pick these? (it's celery) It seems like whenever I pick them they turn out to be soft and mushy.
CC: *thinks* she hands me the one she just picked and says "this is a good one"
Saturo: but how did you know it's any good?
CC: it's heavy
Saturo: so does that mean it has a lot of water in it?
CC: *points to the price* 69 cents EACH
-- she was trying to say that she buys the heaviest one because the price is per bunch as opposed to per unit weight... her English was a little rough. I didn't follow...
Saturo: ah yeah.. good price
CC: *looks at the celery in my hand* these are a little bit yellow on the end (she swaps out my celery for another one)
Saturo: so I should avoid the ones with yellow on the end
CC: uh huh

At this point I don't drop out but my brain is locked on where to go next. I linger around... she lingers too and has been smiling and nice the whole time.

Then we just rejoin the flow of grocery shopping and I thank her.

In hindsight I could have jumped to "is it better to prepare vegetables with a food processor or by hand" ... at this stage I think I just need more canned material for different food categories.

Comments suggestions?

My 2nd approach was much better - I'll write it up later.

For fellow grocery store gamers - a great bit of small bait: Snickers was the name of Frank Mars' favorite horse.

[PDX]

When you're in the middle of your opening conversation thread, you need to already be thinking how to segue into the next thread. This way, you won't panic once the first thread has run its course.

Also, although it's not optimal, you CAN fall back on personal questions/statements if you're drawing blank early in an interaction. Like Roosh's "you don't look like you're from around here." It's better to push the interaction to see where it goes rather than just bail.

[saturo]

(02-07-2012 01:54 PM)PDX Wrote:  

you CAN fall back on personal questions/statements if you're drawing blank early in an interaction.

What immediately popped into my head was something personal ... "what kind of dish are you going to make with your celery?" ...then I had to consciously decide to not use that line... meanwhile there is silence. Inexperience.

My goal RIGHT NOW is to get tight day game step by step ... not #s... so I was fine with accepting defeat and learning from it.

During my 2nd approach I used the suggested Seinfeld bit about not being to return fruit and it opened the tree of possible topics much wider. This was a milestone approach for me because I got to feel how easy it is once there is enough material to work with.

Note to self: memorize more canned food material... pun intended.

The short version on approach #2 - the ramble went on long enough for me to drop "where I'm from" bait ... she didn't bite... and only gave one good bit of eye contact after a minute or so.

Turns out she was in a hurry and drove off in a minivan... mystery solved.

[G Trooper]

Hey anytime, I'm here to help brotha!

Good work going in for the approach. Is picking out the best celery what you're looking to find out with the girl? If so, you doing great.

If you're interested in meeting her, getting her name, finding out if she is single, why she drives a minivan, will give you her number, wants to grab a drink that night or in the future....if any you are curious about any of those things, which I bet you are. You simply need to ASK her. Don't beat around the bush

EXAMPLE:

Hi, you're cute. I'm Saturo, What's yours? / Where are you from? / What do you do for fun? / What do you do for a living? / Are you single? / I saw your minivan, why do you drive a minivan (smile)? You seem interesting, wanna grab a drink sometime? / What's your number?

You obviously have the balls to approach, now you just need to drop the celery crap and ask these women questions that are going to get you where you want them. (state your intentions)

[saturo]

(02-08-2012 11:43 PM)G Trooper Wrote:  

Is picking out the best celery what you're looking to find out with the girl? If so, you doing great.

LOL

(02-08-2012 11:43 PM)G Trooper Wrote:  

You obviously have the balls to approach, now you just need to drop the celery crap and ask these women questions that are going to get you where you want them. (state your intentions)

I intend to ....the minute they ask me something personal like my name or where I live. That's the formula laid out by Roosh in day bang.

My trouble right now is mastering ramble to get to that turning point in the convo.

Here's how I see it... when you open on something like celery and then exhaust it as a subject... and then you are still hanging around and talking about some other mundane related thing it sends a very clear message .. "I'm interested in you.. I'm presenting myself to you"

So keeping the ramble going is a way of stating my intentions... albeit very subtle.

If my success with the day bang formula is limited I'll experiment with direct-from-the-get-go. I appreciate the encouragement!

[saturo]

grrrrrrrr.....

So I went out to do approaches this evening... still floundering after initial back and forth on the opening prop.

Transcript...

It turns out this girl was like a 9 in my universe... she looked approachable from far away but once I opened and had her attention I realized she was really hot. It was a nice data point... I wasn't overly intimidated (I've been with/around hot women and I got used to them).

So she's picking out some kind of leafy greens in the produce section

Saturo: excuse me
9: *thinks I'm asking her to move*
Saturo: how do you wash those when you get them home?
9: I just soak them.. maybe with a little bit of baking soda
Saturo: what's the baking soda for?
9: it just gets them extra clean
Saturo: ah I see... whenever I buy lettuce I end up washing each leaf individually.. it takes forever! I must be doing something wrong
9: yeah just soak them .....with a little baking soda
-- MOMENT WHERE I DRAW A F-ING BLANK --
Saturo: ok then thanks
9: *walks away* over her shoulder she says "will make a great soup"

She kind of baited me with the soup comment... but I would have to physically follow her to keep the interaction going.

She wasn't rushing the interaction and we had good eye contact... I'm 100% certain that if I could ramble better I'd get a personal question from her.

Any suggestions on what exactly I could have thrown out next in this case to keep the non-direct elderly ramble rolling?

[germanico]

(02-13-2012 09:22 PM)saturo Wrote:  

She kind of baited me with the soup comment... but I would have to physically follow her to keep the interaction going.

She wasn't rushing the interaction and we had good eye contact... I'm 100% certain that if I could ramble better I'd get a personal question from her.

Well, you are on the right track. Just keep doing it, you dont have to be perfect, as long as you keep doing it, you will have results.

If at any moment during the interaction you dont know what to say next, just say anything.

[saturo]

(02-13-2012 09:32 PM)germanico Wrote:  

If at any moment during the interaction you dont know what to say next, just say anything.

Good advice chief... and I think you are onto the problem... inhibition. More approaches should give me confidence which will loosen the inhibitions.

[germanico]

(02-13-2012 10:35 PM)saturo Wrote:  

More approaches should give me confidence which will loosen the inhibitions.

Thats true too, but also realize that you dont need to get rid of your inhibitions to have a positive conversation.

Being good at conversations is a process, not an outcome. Loosening your inhibitions is part of the outcome of chatting up girls, but you need to talk to them. No need to be perfect, no need to prove anything, no need to wait until "you get it right". Just do it and you will be good.

Just talk. When you come to a stop, talk some more. Eventually something you say will stick and resonate with her.

[saturo]

All hail Roosh's elderly opener.

Approach #12 (!) bore some fruit for me. I'm not getting too high on myself because I know enough to know that this was a "don't fuck this up" approach. She was opening me and swallowing every bit of bait I offered from the start.

I didn't even run GALNUC... I wasn't expecting to get as far as I did. I could have been much more artful in my pick up but I tasted blood and went for the close.

Asian grocery - produce section - 7.5 picking egg plant.

Saturo: excuse me - I noticed you are carefully picking your egg plant... how do you know which ones are good?
7.5: Just look for stuff like this *picks up an egg plant and points to a bruise*
Saturo: OK, so just look for the ones that look good?
7.5: yeah... how are you going to be preparing it? [holy shit... mild personal interest very quick]
Saturo: probably baking it.

At this point she starts her own ramble and we go back and forth a bit... the key things she mentions are 1) sauce packet 2) website about chinese culture and 3) cooking eggplant in oil

Saturo: Actually yeah, when I cook it in oil it just absorbs a lot of the oil and never seems to get cooked the way I like it.
7.5: Yes, it will absorb a lot of oil... that's why eggplant tastes good!
Saturo: *laughing* maybe you are right. Actually I am making dinner for a friend... she's been a really great friend and I want to show my appreciation... do you think she could tell if I used a sauce packet?
7.5: Probably not... I know I would be very happy if someone cooked dinner for me *pause* Do you want me to show you the sauce packets I use?
Saturo: Sure that would be great [holy shit... effortless venue change]
7.5: I usually shop at the other asian market I don't know where it is here

*we're winding down a few aisles*

Saturo: When I lived on the west coast I used to go to <grocery chain> all the time... they just opened this one here.
7.5: Where did you live? [bite!]
Saturo: Ramble about west coast a little bit
7.5: Why did you move here? [personal interest again]
Saturo: My parents are getting older and I wanted to be closer to them in case they need help... and to keep an eye on them.
7.5: *Hands me the packet* Oh no, are the directions in Chinese?
Saturo: *dry* My Chinese is a little rusty
7.5: You speak Chinese??
Saturo: *laughing* no... I know about 3 words..
7.5: Hello?
Saturo: Yeah... hello, thank you...
7.5: You could probably go to China and be fine with 3 words.
Saturo: What was that website you mentioned before?
7.5: I don't remember the address.. there is a youtube channel too... but I think it's all in Chinese.
Saturo: Well if I can see what they are doing I might figure it out... I'll learn some new words too. I'll give you my email address and you can mail me the site.. do you have a pencil or something
7.5: *digs in purse and gets out phone*

After some fiddling around she takes my mobile # and asks my name (then TELLS me her name without my asking LOL).. says she'll text me and at this point she starts saying that it might take a while but she'll get around to it... I read this as her writing a "I might flake" insurance policy for herself.

Whatever.. I don't really care and hopefully that came across because it will increase my chances of a next meeting. Either way this is a milestone for me. I believe in the elderly opener. I wish I knew this 10 f-ing years ago.

We wrap it up and go our separate ways.

[saturo]

heh... follow up... she texted me this morning asking for my email address to send web sites to me.

Guys - how do I play this? My first thought is to drop a little bait along with my email address to give myself more of a chance to keep a convo going once she has given the sites I asked about.

What would you do?

[calex]

(03-09-2012 03:21 PM)saturo Wrote:  

heh... follow up... she texted me this morning asking for my email address to send web sites to me.

Guys - how do I play this? My first thought is to drop a little bait along with my email address to give myself more of a chance to keep a convo going once she has given the sites I asked about.

What would you do?

Sounds like she's game to me. You should have probably done a "we should chat/cook/whatever sometime" in your initial convo.

I would just tell her to meet - maybe she could come over and show you how to cook eggplant, heh.

[saturo]

(03-09-2012 04:46 PM)calex Wrote:  

You should have probably done a "we should chat/cook/whatever sometime" in your initial convo.

I would just tell her to meet - maybe she could come over and show you how to cook eggplant, heh.

Yeah you are right - I did not lay any groundwork. I finally texted back and I realized that I kind of painted myself into a corner.

I'm realizing how important it is to always be thinking a couple of steps ahead.

So I closed my text with this bit of (noob) genius: "you'll have to let me retunr the favor" ... it's obtuse.. could be considered polite.. but it's also a test. If she deflects it away strongly then she isn't as interested as I thought. If she is polite back... then I need to get more aggressive. If she welcomes the idea with open arms it's more green lights for saturo.

[saturo]

I'm officially hooked on PU now

Call me crazy but the game is almost as fun as banging.

Update... the 7.5 from the grocery store emailed with the links we discussed on my approach.

Observations:

- she used my name and the formatting of her message looks like she went back and added it in before sending
- she sent the message at a "round time" which suggests she MIGHT Have been intentionally waiting to not seem eager (actually a few minutes BEFORE a round time)
- she did not deflect my "return the favor" comment but she didn't pop on it either
- she isn't ashamed to be emailing strangers on Friday night

I'll write her back tomorrow.. still need to break the ice a little and steer her towards meeting up. Unless something interesting happens I won't continue to bore you guys with the details.

[BadgerHut]

(03-09-2012 11:36 PM)saturo Wrote:  

I'm officially hooked on PU now

Call me crazy but the game is almost as fun as banging.

Update... the 7.5 from the grocery store emailed with the links we discussed on my approach.

Observations:

- she used my name and the formatting of her message looks like she went back and added it in before sending
- she sent the message at a "round time" which suggests she MIGHT Have been intentionally waiting to not seem eager (actually a few minutes BEFORE a round time)
- she did not deflect my "return the favor" comment but she didn't pop on it either
- she isn't ashamed to be emailing strangers on Friday night

I'll write her back tomorrow.. still need to break the ice a little and steer her towards meeting up. Unless something interesting happens I won't continue to bore you guys with the details.

Nice work man. My only advice is, don't "steer her" towards a meeting, ASK for a meeting in the next exchange. She's given huge signs of interest, close the deal.

[haywire]

(03-09-2012 11:36 PM)saturo Wrote:  

Call me crazy but the game is almost as fun as banging.

Yup, I can totally relate with that feeling! Probably, it's the adrenaline rush that gives you a high.

Otherwise, seems like you're doing good work. Carry on in your rhythm and get the bang!