I was referring to the average logical, highly virtuous guy (who usually doesn't understand he has to get out of logical thinking mode and start talking to her in a way that builds comfort and attraction - talk bullshit about her friends, pets, family, swap crazy stories, tell jokes, tease her, get her laughing etc.) - not guys on this forum who obviously have a good understanding of the dating market, dating strategy and attraction fundamentals.
RE honesty - how honest you can be with majority of girls in the current dating market is generally directly tied to your core value either on the surface level (like looks or status, or if you have some really really good charisma and social skills), or in the environment you and the girl are in (situational value).
(the perfect example of this is Roosh in his old place in Poland. You think he could have told most of the socialist type girls he banged that he had a Donald Trump picture on the wall? Hell no. It goes against everything they are socially conditioned to believe, and everything their friends and family talk about. Most girls these days are so far from independent thinkers, it's laughable. You have to bullshit and lie to them about a lot of stuff and just keep the conversation light, fairly positive, non critical and fairly scripted)
Good luck playing the nice guy and being straightforward if you have average leverage or average value in the first place. There's 100 other guys hitting her up she can replace you with immediately. When you have average leverage or you are not meeting through social circle where you are pre warmed and validated, game only works to a point (which is why the flake rate and time investment can be so high with cold approach and cold game)....game definitely works - but it has limitations.
I think that's why so many guys start learning about pickup and dating with companies like RSD first - most average men without a big social circle spend a lot of their 20's building their life, themselves, their internal value, and just hustling (if they are smart). Girls aren't attracted to that phase - they are attracted to the finished product, or to good vibes (which is exactly what RSD teaches at it's core - it doesn't matter who you are or where you're at in life, anyone can create short term good vibes and fun and short term attraction). So, to get leverage when your core value is lower, you have to essentially pretend to be something you're not and manufacture that good vibe to get in her pants. When i said lie and manipulate - i didn't mean it in a destructive way - i meant it in a way to progress the interaction and escalate it as necessary. And, when I said indifference - I meant it as a comparison to showing genuine/100% true feelings or thoughts. I find that you can only let your guard down with girls either once you've slept with them (and they start backwards rationalising you as a dating partner so they don't feel like a slut, and once their oxytocin starts kicking in), or if your value is so insanely high compared to theirs that it's clear they are chasing you. Give most girls an inch of vulnerability or truth - and they take a mile.
As you get older and you build more obvious core value and you get smarter with how you position yourself in the dating market and in real life, you can rely far less on external pickup tactics, and far more on who you really are - because that's attractive in itself.
At that point you can be more selective and honest too.
Not all girls are like the ones I described above - but definitely in the West where I am, majority of them are. It's unreal how cold some of them get when they sense an ounce of desperation or weakness, or the interaction goes anything less than perfect. A lot of it can depend on their mood at the time, and the status of their penis pipeline too.
RE honesty - how honest you can be with majority of girls in the current dating market is generally directly tied to your core value either on the surface level (like looks or status, or if you have some really really good charisma and social skills), or in the environment you and the girl are in (situational value).
(the perfect example of this is Roosh in his old place in Poland. You think he could have told most of the socialist type girls he banged that he had a Donald Trump picture on the wall? Hell no. It goes against everything they are socially conditioned to believe, and everything their friends and family talk about. Most girls these days are so far from independent thinkers, it's laughable. You have to bullshit and lie to them about a lot of stuff and just keep the conversation light, fairly positive, non critical and fairly scripted)
Good luck playing the nice guy and being straightforward if you have average leverage or average value in the first place. There's 100 other guys hitting her up she can replace you with immediately. When you have average leverage or you are not meeting through social circle where you are pre warmed and validated, game only works to a point (which is why the flake rate and time investment can be so high with cold approach and cold game)....game definitely works - but it has limitations.
I think that's why so many guys start learning about pickup and dating with companies like RSD first - most average men without a big social circle spend a lot of their 20's building their life, themselves, their internal value, and just hustling (if they are smart). Girls aren't attracted to that phase - they are attracted to the finished product, or to good vibes (which is exactly what RSD teaches at it's core - it doesn't matter who you are or where you're at in life, anyone can create short term good vibes and fun and short term attraction). So, to get leverage when your core value is lower, you have to essentially pretend to be something you're not and manufacture that good vibe to get in her pants. When i said lie and manipulate - i didn't mean it in a destructive way - i meant it in a way to progress the interaction and escalate it as necessary. And, when I said indifference - I meant it as a comparison to showing genuine/100% true feelings or thoughts. I find that you can only let your guard down with girls either once you've slept with them (and they start backwards rationalising you as a dating partner so they don't feel like a slut, and once their oxytocin starts kicking in), or if your value is so insanely high compared to theirs that it's clear they are chasing you. Give most girls an inch of vulnerability or truth - and they take a mile.
As you get older and you build more obvious core value and you get smarter with how you position yourself in the dating market and in real life, you can rely far less on external pickup tactics, and far more on who you really are - because that's attractive in itself.
At that point you can be more selective and honest too.
Not all girls are like the ones I described above - but definitely in the West where I am, majority of them are. It's unreal how cold some of them get when they sense an ounce of desperation or weakness, or the interaction goes anything less than perfect. A lot of it can depend on their mood at the time, and the status of their penis pipeline too.