[Noir]

(10-31-2018 12:40 PM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  

My only caveat is that in this specific instance the above is likely not applicable as OP has already severely "discounted" the value of his attention to this specific bangler. They've already spent significant time together and she knows he badly wants to bang her

Like any "commodity", attention's value is only relative to its perceived exclusivity.

In the delicate art / science of "push /pull" he's over pushed. But even then its the wrong push. He's pushed from weakness.

And nothing kills a woman's attraction like weakness

Im not trying to be overly harsh on OP but his continued postings make it clear that his thirst for her have his own sexual self worth perception lower than his perception of hers. If this were not true he wouldn't be listing rationalizations as to why she "needs" to see him again....as an example

If this is clear to me then its an order of magnitude clearer to a woman who's feminine intuition has been honed by years of practice.

At this point I only see one pathway to banging this chick as I mentioned before: Here's my suggested recovery formula:

NOTE: At no point in the following do you ask her what she wants to do. Ask her as little as possible. Tell her to (sit here, try this wine, take your shoes off, etc...) This is all key in order to recoup the masculine dominance thats been given away

-Invite her over either directly to the bang location (or the closest possible venue to the bang location if a modicum of plausible deniability is still required) walking distance if you have to

-Once in the bang location: Have one glass of wine while sitting on the sofa.

-Finish that then pour a 2nd. (skip this if youve had a drink at an outside venue)

-After one sip of the 2nd glass reach over and take it from her. Put it on the coffee table along with yours. (This is when you are transitioning from verbal / emotional control to physical control )

- Dont say anything. Just lean over her and kiss her. Confidently. Like a man who knows what he wants but doesn't care if he doesn't get it from her because he knows he'll get it elsewhere

She'll either resist or she wont

Proceed accordingly

...This is what she and every woman wants from a man: to be relieved of responsibility

Thanks PT.

I agree 100%, I write this shit for future reference YET I think we should all be careful, the level that we come in with our advice.

I don't think OP will get anything out of his original situation because he's got zero leverage. The odds are poor for the price he is paying.

For this reason, I didn't really bother to the response going into (a), (b), ©, because it's micro. This is macro.

@OP, I have bolded my main takeaways from PT's excellent post above and you should be doing the same.

Zoom out and figure out the themes, rules and trends that you can apply.

My only deviation would be that I wouldn't bother with this chick, there's plenty more out there. Especially if you're married or some shit?

Nonetheless, we love analysing this shit so we go ahead.

She brings her friends, you should treat her like shit the next time and be nice to her friends. Make them work against each other. Girls are competitive, tap into that shit.

For all the talk of congruence, I will be ultra dick to certain girls and an absolute gentleman to others and let them figure out how I am treating the others. I am incongruent in this sense (macro) but congruent individually (micro) to fuck with them. Because I know they want shit and I wanna complicate their roadmap into how they get that. The ones I am a gentleman are usually the ones that I wouldn't fuck, too, because that's my default.

This shit is like possession in a soccer game, zero sum. When I am not getting my way, they're getting theirs so I am imposing my shit.

My friends and I joke that we have to be dicks for the first month and then we come out 'SURPRISE, I am actually a stand up, great guy. Can we still see each other?'. I might do a stand up routine on this some time.

Hence, treat SA bitches like that, because they're on a fucking marketplace offering up their pussy and complicating that because you know and they know what you want. They want your $$$. I think SA and Tinder are relatively similar, regardless of dynamic because you can be baller on Tinder. Baller on IG. You're baller in real life.

I got tired of tinder because it's exactly this kinda shit. Any online pussy marketplace is like this, you're starting at a handicap (for the bettors here). It's stupid because girls come pre-pedestalized. It's too good to be true and 90% of men are on there fumbling and shit.

Fuck, we could write an encylopedia on this shit and it wouldn't matter if you can't speak the language it's written in.

Keep reading kaotic & PTs posts, they have distilled so much knowledge that you should take notes. If you're having trouble, I can point our my own inferences. Shit changes once you fuck (dynamic, power) so that's your focus. This is why you cut through the shit and reduce the variables.

It's my fault for coming in on a different frequency. Guys often don't know what the right questions to ask are and I suppose us 'veterans' should discern that shit.

Kaotic alludes to another intelligent point.

Coffee-dates.

My girls 21 year old sister wants to fuck this guy and she tells me he's taking her to coffee.

I told her straight up, you ain't gonna fuck, it's a glorified interview.

Just from the above sentence, I will outline the lessons.

- girls want you to fuck them but they never make it easy, you make the decisions

- you can't touch her on a coffee date, nothing sexual

- you're going to revert to flirting, if possible

- flirting without touching is not flirting, it's just banter which is what men do

- you're going to pick up the bill regardless

- you ain't pushing from the start and assuming comfort. By this I mean, you ain't making her invest a bit more (compliance) to see where you stand.

Remember the possession? Well apply that to investment into the interaction. You're making it vanilla and min-risk, she just needs to show up in a public place and if you're unfuckable then she gets free shit regardless. Guess what? You made it hard to seem fuckable and worsened that handicap? You're on an app where the commodity is pussy and you're going to pretend like it's not.

The 21yo did not get fucked and had a terrible date. She secretly hopes the guy can turn it around but she's resigned to other guys. I know this because she calls me up and asks me HOW TO MAKE HERSELF MORE AVAILABLE IN THE FUTURE.

Operative part: IN THE FUTURE - she is over this chump. Dude's family owns a gelato business, he is handsome and on paper looks great but he just ain't got game so it doesn't matter because he can't push the buttons.

I got stories for days, all the girls in my girls social circle ask ME for advice because guys just aren't getting it. This is why they're enquiring on threesomes and shit.

Girls want this shit but they want to earn it and you gotta make them work for it. You gotta give them some uphill man.

This is back to that alpha/beta button pushing thread I started. You ain't allowing yourself to push the right buttons because you're picking a shit environment and this is your responsibility. PT mentions that you need to make the decisions. Well, allow yourself to by putting yourself in the most +EV environments.

Hence, I personally disagree on coffee shops, especially for Tinder and SA. Do some active shit.

When I am meeting chicks off these apps, I am screening them. I am putting them under a stress test to see how they react. Coffee is HR screening. I am talking trial by fire, let's do go-karts, go for a hike, shoot some pool etc.

Anything that I can touch the fuck out of you with plausible deniability yet pushing those buttons and screening under my context.

Think about it, they don't do these dates so they don't have reference points to compare you to.

It's the how big is my dick theory. Chicks don't know shit about measurements, they compare you to the other guys they fucked. It's the same shit. Put them on a date they don't usually do and it compensates for any fumbling because it's non-comparable, they recall it pleasurably and are excited.

Fucking hell, I remember when I was 17 and bought Twister just to get chicks on their knees and touching me. No other kid was focusing on this.

I dunno man, I went on a tangent there but the point is if you keep doing vanilla dates, you're gonna be operating on vanilla frequencies. Girls are the masters of this domain and it's under their rules. If I played a level on a game 27 times, I would be good vs the one I played once.

Take them out of that domain and throw them in one where they're inexperienced.

This is where you, as a newb, can establish dominance easier, because they're less experience and they will pedestalize you. Just the fact that you take them out of their zone makes you dominant because they will look to you to lead and you automatically ARE FORCED TO LEAD.

These are little things you can do to put you ahead.

You can be whatever you want to be, if it's congruent. You start causing questions when you 'leak' out incongruence as PT mentioned. He mentions weakness but it's an example of a lot of incongruences.

Remember, if shes attracted, she will want you to be what she fantasizes and will give you a free pass for a certain standard deviation of behaviour.

I can go on and on but I need to go to work.

Listen to PT and kaotic, their reputation precedes them on this forum for a good reason. They are also patient, I am not so much so I will hit you with some harsh truths there.

Don't take this shit personally and don't feel the need to counter every point with a 'but' to justify why you think what you think. It doesn't matter.

Would you rather learn or be right?