Quote: (09-07-2018 11:40 PM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:
Guys who love rap should be grateful this dude died like so many of their idols.
Rap culture>die young>morons emulate>hood culture>die young>Rap culture>die young>morons emulate>hood culture>die young>Rap culture>die young>morons emulate>hood culture>die young>Rap culture>die young>morons emulate>hood culture>die young>
If these dudes and every hood rat was living to 95 and dying of a stroke then nobody would give a shit about rap culture because it would be "lame".
You worship death, you pay the tribute.
Dumb prick would have been better off getting a job at Walmart and marrying a 6. But dudes have to lionize his dumb ass and now a shitload more kids are going to live the same moronic dead end existence that this chump did.
Ghetto culture is a death-cult. You reap what you sow.
You make some good points. A lot of people feel like you about hip-hop. Not many have the balls to put it as bluntly as that, so fair play.
Hip-hop is many things to many different people. It means a very different thing to those of us old enough to remember when it first happened. We called it Rap back then. And it means a different thing to the white Generation Z kids of today that use it as their 'Pop Music'.
Like it or not, Hip-hop is the new Pop. 12 year old white boys (and girls) don't listen to bubblegum pop anymore, they listen to hip-hop, or a variation of it.
Trying to pin hip-hop down is like trying to get a working definition of 'Fascism', or 'Communism'. Yeah, I get that you have a very sophisticated working understanding of those concepts, but pick ten people at random in a bar and try to get them to agree on the semantics of it all. Good luck herding them cats.
But your definition is just as valid as anyone else's. Sure, you don't like hip-hop, but that shouldn't stop you from making a valid observation or personal judgement on it all. It's not like you are wrong. In fact, many lament the old days when it meant something else before the whole thing got 'jewed' as you alluded to and gangster rap took hold.
People are products of their environment. We may not like it but sometimes we can understand it. You obviously understand it, and don't like it very much. And that's ok too.
I've had silly arguments with white boys in to Rock who have silly fucking hair cuts and wear silly fucking trousers and listen to silly fucking Rock music. All about hip-hop. They said it was not 'music'. I wasn't going to stand for their pompous prickish attitude and so I begged to differ.
But hip-hop is so massive that it isn't just the new 'Pop Music', it's the new fashion, it's the new way of doing business. And you may not like that either. And you may be right. And I might even agree with you. To a degree.
But never mind all that.
I haven't even heard of this bloke we are eulogizing here. Pretty shameful for someone that calls himself a 'hip-hop-producer', eh?
But we shape this world. Nothing is set in stone. We take our influences where we can. We have to be the change...
That is what I am trying to do. But I don't just make hip-hop (I've been making it for decades now), I make drum and bass, and guitar singer-songwriter shit, and on a good day, I might even make a bit of Rock-Pop, or is that Pop-Rock?
I recently put up a thread (I don't tend to start threads) here in the Lifestyle department of the forum about learning to be a Music Producer, and Hip-hop was one of my points of focus. I abandoned that as quickly as I put it up, not least because my life changed overnight again and I didn't have the time to follow through (after spending a few days and thousands of words to work out the curriculum), but I think there was a lack of interest as well. Maybe wrong forum. I haven't abandoned it. I'll be looking back and I aim to follow through on what I started. But my reasons for bailing out would have sounded weak, so I just shut it. I hope to make good one day on that. And I'm still up for mentoring any new upstarts that want to get ahead in the game. My PM box is always open.
So, yeah, hip-hop. Drum and Bass. Now there is something you could really knock yourself out on Lenny if you wanted. You probably don't like that either.
At the time I got in to it, it was seen as a serious bastard diversion from TECHNO, that white people liked, and the only people that really got in to it (it was called 'Jungle' back in the day) tended to be black. Or white girls that liked the vibe of being around black men and 'boys'.
That put the cat among the pigeons I can tell you. It's still ruffling feathers to this day.
But like everything, it's been bought and sold and re-bottled. You have chums like Chase and Status (white boys) filling arenas, but they are managed by and on the Roc-a-fella label by Jay-Z (iirc - I might have got that very wrong).
Just like when I bumped in to those big black DJ's in a pub in Crystal Palace one day and they were educating me on the phenomenon that was Eminem - how he was not just created, but allowed to exist by the black community because it made them money, plus, true, he did have some talent as well. Interesting conversation.
I managed to slip in the words "dumb fucking niggers" in a totally unironic fashion as well, which got a smile from them, I'll never forget. But that is what happens when you live among black people, have real relationships with them, don't patronize them, understand them, be one with them, as they are with you (all to an extent of course - I wasn't The Jerk).
I remember that conversation vividly in fact, but for reasons other than what I want to go in to here. I could make a whole post on it in fact. Maybe I will some day.
I'm being pretty direct with you here Lenny, but I know you're a big boy who can handle that. I'm not preaching to you or at you, I just want to make that clear.
I've been involved in 'race relations' in one form or another for a very long time. I quickly learned why the old adage of "why can't we all just get along" doesn't work.
This is the bit where I say, you know Black people can be shits, but so can White people. And that is true. But I also agree with you on some points you make about Black people being bigger shits when it comes to some things. Sugar coat it and call it 'Race Realism' if you like. Or just dip it in acid and kill the argument by calling it good old fashioned 'Racism'.
But if that last paragraph betrayed my 'Racism' then I want you to take it up with one of my ex girlfriends who pretty much said the same thing: Black people need to get their house in order. She was Black. She talked to thousands of Black People at political events in North London. She took me to Blacks only nightclubs where I was made to feel slightly uncomfortable, shall we say. Black Comedians making jokes about White people, but that was ok, that was quite funny, that wasn't where the discomfort came from. I could write a book on it. I haven't even begun to scratch the surface with this shit.
So yeah, Black people got problems. But fuck me, have you seen the state of White people lately? They are no better. They are just as fucked but in a different way. Some of them are fucked in exactly the same way, but you know...
Laugh at hip-hop music. Accuse those who listen to it of Ghetto Culture. You may be right. But look at White people and their silly heavy metal hard rock (or what passes for it). You talk about Jordan Peterson, saying he does not have the courage of his convictions (I paraphrase here) and that he is leading people down the garden path or even worse, to a false dawn. What do these heavy metal or rock bands of today provide? Do they have any answers?
It's ok for them to sing "It's ok to be White". I'm down with that. Hell, it's even ok for them to sing "We want a White Homeland" and I wouldn't argue against that either. But you know, the finer points? These are the diametrically opposed points of a polarised argument. And maybe it needs to be that way for now. But sooner or later, nuance and the matter of 'degrees' will need to come in to it.
Jesus Leonard, I'm agreeing with you here man, for a lot of the argument. But I'm also giving a different perspective.
I grew up on Rock music. It's my blood. 8 hours a day, 6 days a week, for months on end. Through sunny summers and dark winters, I practiced my guitar. I didn't practice to hip-hop music. It's a part of who I am.
And if hip-hop music and culture disappoints you, then that's a fair call. But rock music and its inherent culture disappoints me. Not because they aren't burning down churches (some of them do, granted) and not because they aren't burning down the ghettoes (maybe some of them do that as well, I don't know). But just because the whole lot of them are such total fucking under-achievers when it comes down to it.
People can laugh at me. I didn't know who Mac Miller was (RIP, btw). But I'm trying to forge my own thing. To go forward with what I know. Trying to find others to join me on the journey. To build a new world.
Black, White, Hip-hop, Rock, you name it, all welcome in my little caravan. I can't change the world. I can't even change people's opinions on shit. But I can make a vain attempt, occasionally.
But I have polarised the debate myself, here. I've made it about black and white. When in fact there is as much Indian and Hindustani involved. (And never forget the 'Orientals')
Studying the raghs...
This one is for Roosh -
...the makams from the Arabic world. All used by top hip-hop producers. Hell, they are even used by all the top heavy metal and heavy rock guitarists too from Blackmore to Malmsteen. See the 'Phrygian' mode. Harmonic minor. Modes of the Harmonic minor. Flamenco music. Classical music. Each and everyone just about the exact same notes as Bach played about with his Fugues and Baroque music.
We have not even begun to scratch the surface, let alone touch the sides.
Humanity in all its potential is so still-born. Many such cases. Sad.
That's enough for now.
I hope you don't take this little 'love letter' to you the wrong way Lenny. I'm sure you won't. I'm always interested in what you got to say. Just sometimes I don't agree with some of your points.
I don't want debate on this subject to be stifled either way. Then again, I don't want it to be so much of a sole fixation, that it ends up becoming another lost cause. I'm just another idiot on the internet, so no real reason why anyone should listen to what I say, anyway.
But I will just say this: Black, White, Indian, WTF - we are here sharing a small amount of time on this small little planet. And none of us are going anywhere. There will be no 'rounding up' and 'sending back'. There will be no 'civil war'. Well, hopefully not. Yes, demographics will win the day.
I honestly don't know how this all will work out for us, let alone our children. But there is still some time left to sort this shit out. That goes for all of you.
Fucking snap out of it.
It's time!