[kaotic]

@beer @corsega we're on a game forum, I already expect we're all in it for the pussy, noone is denying that.

Got nothing but love for you, and I'll admit yeah I was condescending and frustrated yesterday, it comes from a good place, and I'm working on that.

Here's a question, how much are you going to sacrifice just for chasing pussy? When does it become too much?

Dan is an elite category, chances of us guys being born with a baller father are slim to none. He did the best thing, maximize what he got which is awesome. A perfect example of dudes going too far are the 30K millionaires who live at home or a shitty apartment but drive a European import and drop bottles at the club.

But we're comparing apples to oranges from average joe's, even chad's on here, compared to Dan. It's just not a fair assessment of ones life and isn't healthy to compare your own life to theirs.

That's all I'm saying.

We all understand that building a great lifestyle WILL attract women (that's the "more to life than pussy" part").

Thing is if you don't have a solid foundation as in making paper, being healthy, having good game, then you won't be getting to that next level that you want to.

The foundations of game are mandatory, otherwise you're already behind the pack.

@Perspicacity

Quote:

I.e. the period of time and number of places, in which a guy could get decent results just using what was between his ears, his mouthpiece, and basic body tuning — without resorting to trappings like travel/sex tourism/geoarbitrage, digital nomadism, social media, tinder, permanent body modifications, 'social circle game', 'lifestyle/hobby game' — was far narrower than is believed, and is a lot less than its outsize influence on the broader societal culture would make it seem.

I don't think it "was" narrower, I think it is "getting" narrower, while I think guys can still pull chicks with his tongue and body is still decent, it IS shrinking (Noir alludes to this, more on that later).

Quote:

(Common story with subcultures — as with pyramid schemes, by the time you've heard about them, you've probably missed the boat. The carrying capacity of cutting-edge, influential subcultures is far smaller than latecomers think, so that the founders have already either moved on, closed themselves off, or feed off the unknowing newcomers.)

Instead what we have is a bunch of guys being lured in by that promise of just being able to use (more or less) the gift of gab to swoop mass fly girls, and then having the goalposts shifted on them further and further away from this 'pure game' towards the external trappings mentioned above, without any acknowledgement that the goalposts are being shifted or re-evaluation of whether the new goalposts make the ROI worthwhile.

I've never understood guys who follow PUA artist, I've never subscribed, bought a book, or even watched any videos.

It's either been solely from crashing and burning pre RVF or reading and applying things when I discovered RVF, to finally fine tuning and maximizing everything I possibly can.

I loathe those snake oil PUA's, they aren't doing any men any favors, but I'm not on the level of PUAhate.

Agreed, these sorts of guys never admit shit has changed and just sell you on bullshit.

Quote:

"The difficulty is balancing blackpill and game."

My answer is, I don't think you can - time and time again I've seen guys jump into the MGTOW/Incels way of thinking and become so disillusioned and jaded with females that just give up as if there's no winning.

I meant think about it, just threads like the SA one, or Dubai Porta pottie ones are enough to make guys be sick and they can't even handle that. That's guys already aware of the forum and game.

Quote:

On the other hand, while many of the MGTOW, Lookism guys are extremely insightful, wickedly funny, and are picking up on stuff and developing theory nobody else is talking about -- fundamentally, those forums are corrosive and poisonous.

While they may see more truths, you're absolutely right it becomes corrosive and poisonous.

Quote:

Not sure it's possible to balance that kind of brutal black hole-level blackpill with a focus on maximising results given the hand we've been dealt -- past a certain point, truth-seeking and theory-crafting are probably incompatible with the upper levels of game.

I agree that I don't think there's balance here, black pill is scarily toxic and well.....a black hole.

We've seen guys fall into that trap, melt down, or go silent.


My biggest concern is newbies immediately jumping into black pill without even having any solid foundation on game, variables, and having a well rounded lifestyle.

While it might be a good idea to get guys on here to start earlier in their truth seeking I just think the majority of young men aren't ready or can't "handle the truth".

Men who have been burned, coming from a shitty upbringing, from a divorce, etc are going to the most open BUT vulnerable to this.


I just can't see a good balance of black pill and game, maybe you're right, maybe I'm old school, but however, I'm always open to new theories, interpretations, and ideas.

Like I said, a man has to improvise, adapt, and overcome.



@noir



Honestly, goddamn, you just nuked this thread in all the right ways.

I'm pretty much speechless and can't add anything here that you've described.

Men are at a fault for inflating a womans net worth, the problem is, men will keep doing this, game aware men are minority.

Until the day alot of men wake up and realize how we're dealing with women is bullshit and crash the SMV of women - until then the competition and women's ego will be high.

I don't see this changing anytime soon unless something dramatic happens like a world war or something that affects our survival.