Quote: (05-17-2014 02:03 PM)Hades Wrote:
Quote: (05-14-2014 12:27 PM)TheFinalEpic Wrote:
Quote: (05-14-2014 11:31 AM)Hades Wrote:
Berserk, why is your clean and press a full ten kilos higher than your strict press?
Pretty sure I've weighed in on this once but SS is a mostly lower-body program structured around three days per week of progressive overload. If you want more upper body gains you're going to have to do upper body work on your off days. Shouldn't be a problem.
Clean and press offers a momentum increase. Strict press you should be completely still, clean and press offers a push from the knee and explosion through the hips.
Also, lower body gains lead to upper body gains, it has to do with 1. the kinetic chain and 2. the release of testosterone and growth hormone from the largest muscle group in the body. Guys that neglect their legs are doomed to plateau at a certain point on the upper body.
That sounds like a pretty good description of a clean and push press. My clean and press is basically the same as my regular press.
I disagree fundamentally with the notion that lower body gains lead to upper body gains, and have two pieces of evidence. Look at all the jagoffs on starting strength's forums. Blown up asses, quads, man-tits, and traps, practically nothing anywhere else - no shoulders, no biceps, everyone crying out for help "getting a V-taper" - all this on a diet of basically lower body exercises. With all that natural HGH they're getting from GOMAD and squatting every workout they should look like bodybuilders up top, but not a single one actually does. So what if they can squat 300 pounds? They all look like shit.
Exhibit B are all the wheelchair bodybuilders who basically have no legs but are fucking enormous. Their idea of a workout is doing twenty different iterations of rows, curls, pulldowns, and presses.
You have to work upper body to get gains and actually look good. There's just no way around it.
It's not exactly a good comparison.
Starting Strength = 3-5 months of training for noobs
Huge armchair bodybuilders being compared to = trained for years
After 3-5 months, SS will no longer work and you'll have to use periodized strength training. So really, you're looking to compare bodybuilders with strength athletes that places more emphasis on the lower body (which includes most athletes). You'll be able to find good specimens from both camps.
Unfortunately, comparing elites is also pointless since their bodies are predisposed to certain proportions as they approach the genetic limit. These people just get into the field they're best suited for.
The only thing you can do is focus on what you're lacking after a few months into the intermediate level. Keep adjusting as you progress and apply training advice in the right context.