Quote: (11-20-2015 01:57 AM)RioNomad Wrote:
Quote: (11-19-2015 11:30 PM)chochemonger1 Wrote:
Quote: (11-19-2015 10:46 PM)RioNomad Wrote:
Obamacare is pretty much a failure. He's done significant damage to race relations. He's trying to bring in tens of thousands of Syrians into the country. Played a major role in destabilizing Syria to begin with. Passed TPP. Has done less to combat ISIS than Russia (and he's obviously gone easy on them on due to his own agenda). Is trying to destroy our 2nd amendment rights. Hasn't really improved the economy. Terrible Iran deal that didn't even get us back our US citizens being held captive. Trading the Taliban five of their people for one of ours, who was a traitor to begin with.
Aside from killing Bin Laden, he hasn't done shit good for the country. And it isn't as if a different president wouldn't have got Bin Laden just the same. It isn't like he was out there tracking him down himself.
Ok Nomad point by point.
1. Race Relations.....it has been a joke ever since the 80s in the US. I am sure you remember high school or a college campus.
2. Refugees.....see what Reagan did in the 80s or since the 60s in the US with Cubans.
3, TPP vs. NAFTA?
4, ISIS exists because there was no greater recruitment tool ever for Muslim "warriors" than invading Iraq.
5. 2nd amendment. It has been a joke in the US for several decades.
6. There could have been another Great Depression, as much as people forget 2008.
7. Iran deal. It is a harsh region. You either go to war and bomb, or try some semblance of diplomacy.
8. Details about specific captive negotiations I agree, should have been dealt with better.
Taking bad race relations and making them even worse isn't a win for Obama.
Cubans and Reagan have absolutely nothing to do with Syrian or Muslim refugees. It's irrelevant if what Reagan did was good or bad. Obama letting in tens of thousands of Syrians is a horrible idea.
TPP and NAFTA are both bad. Previous presidents had made bad decisions. That doesn't mean Obama's aren't also shit. NAFTA has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that TPP is bad for America.
Again, invading Iraq has no bearing on whether Obama has done a good job (he hasn't) in combating ISIS.
You're calling the 2nd amendment a joke? The only joke is people who are too short sighted and naive to understand just how important the 2nd amendment is.
Iran deal was a bad deal. He could have struck a better deal without going to war. It isn't black or white.
You seem to think that because previous presidents have made mistakes that it means Obama hasn't. I don't follow your logic at all. We are not debating Bush vs Obama. We are debating if Obama is "that bad", and he is. Frankly, you don't even appear capable of having a logical debate on the topic with these responses you are coming up with. You're just trying to use misdirection and bringing up irrelevant topics like Cubans and Reagan.
In order to make a fair assessment of a president you have to make comparisons with the past, and with other presidents.
1. Race relations are worse now, than in the past in the US?. Not. Try living in the US in the 1960s or New York in the 1980s.
Obama does not make most whites feel better with some of his behavior, but that is mostly superficial compared to the overall problem. No president can prevent what is inevitable in a society like ours.
2. One can argue that letting in thousands of muslim refugees is nothing to the amnesty that Reagan allowed to millions, in the 1980s.
3. The whole middle east is a sinkhole. I do agree with you that he didn't handle the Syrian problem well. But I don't see any other American president being able to have made any real difference, after the mess of the Iraq War.
4. Clinton is considered a goof president and he pushed and won for NAFTA. Does that mean this TPP is a good deal for America? I don't know because I have not studied the issue well, but I don't like globalization. Under Romney TPP would have passed too.
5. About the 2nd amendment. If the US government really wanted to enslave its citizens would owning a gun or even a missile launcher, protect you from the US military.
I am all for gun ownership. just some people exaggerate about how important it is. At least IMO.
6. The Iran situation is so complex....only history will tell if Obama did the right thing.
And Nomad don't ever tell me I am not capable. We can argue subjects and have differences of opinion all day long. That is all good. Just tell me your reasons that you disagree and that is where good debates arise.
I see a lot of superficiality in your train of thought too, but we are not writing books. We are only writing quick thoughts in an internet forum.