I'll throw my hat in this. Hope you're not a troll.
This is all you need to know right here. This is the mindset you need. Take a leap of faith and internalize it.
I'll take this whole story at your word and give you my take. Hope it helps.
For this half of the encounter, it sounds like you were solid. You went after it, took chances when you had to, and escalated like you should have. Plus it sounds like she was just flat-out into you. If this went down like you say it did, you did a good job.
The only thing you shouldn't have done was said that you were surprised she was single too. She gave you an easy chance to assert your level of value over her's in a subtle way, without you having to risk overgaming. Any time you can get the advantage of having a girl address you as having more MSV, in any way, you grab that shit. Here, you could've just nodded when she said she was single and not said you were surprised too.
Approaching it this way would make it less likely that she would regret letting you bang her quickly, because it is always much easier for a girl to justify having sex with a high(er)-value man. You let go of a chance to clinch this small advantage by putting yourself on an equal footing with her in the conversation.
This could sound minor to you, but girls tend to be very impressionable—if you can genuinely play it like it's not surprising that she's single, she will evaluate her value as a little less yours, making it easier for her to visualize herself with you (as you would be a better catch for her).
That's a lot of explanation for a small point.
Here's where I think you fucked up. Your were cockblocked by a weak mentality. You let yourself believe what was clearly the signs of LMR (and you even note it as such).
Let me make two points here: 1) sex from cold day approaches is usually a grind when you hit the bedroom (especially with higher quality girls), and 2) the worst mentality you can have as a straight man is that sex with a girl can ever hurt you.
1.) From my experience, when you're dealing with a girl you met in the day (and I run 85% day game, so I see this a lot), for whatever reason, she'll throw up more LMR than a girl you met at night. That's pretty obvious. It might be the alcohol factor, it might be the fact that you're "more real" having met her in the day and that she has already seen you as more than some walking dildo in a club, I don't know.
Whatever the reason, you have to acknowledge the realities of that. Your mind has to be prepared for that extra step of grinding the girl into sex. Having met you in the day, she will be less likely to let herself jump into sex with you. But she has already made up her mind on whether or not she would have sex with you. What's required of you to expose this decision is tenacity, a leap of faith (i.e. put yourself out there and risk getting rejected badly), and attention to what she does versus what she says. Does she want sex? Well, looking at the facts, if this girl sleeps at your house, jumps into bed with you, lets her shirt and shorts get taken off, then yes, she wants sex. And she's in your bed. Why not just go home and have the satisfaction of sleeping in her own bed? That is not a glorified make out session, my man. The girl wants dick.
It's easy as a man to lose sight of that, but you have to be prepared to look at the whole thing objectively. She wants sex. Her dilemma is that she can't just give it to you. So, you deliver the sex the way she wants it, and you start the grind.
That means, starting from the first "no" where she physically shows that she's still available for the option of sex, you work her until she can't resist sex anymore. Or, at least, you make her feel like you did. You keep this up until she's satisfied with your performance in giving her the rationalization of having to just "let" you have sex with her. She tried not to, but it "just happened." The "no" really translates to "not yet."
Of course, it "just happened" because you worked her. You kissed her everywhere, you grinded your dick on her, you slapped her ass while she was on top of you, you sucked her tits, you did everything you could for as long as you had to. You know what else happens when you do that? The sex is even more rewarding.
2.) Having sex with a girl will never hurt your chances of making something happen with a girl.
I know you cite an example that seems to counter this point, but let me assure that outside of that 1% outlier of mentally unstable girls who have sex and then become freaked out and repulsed by the thought of being with you (which are girls who are both incapable of commitment and not LTR material anyway), sex itself will not ruin anything for you. In fact, quick sex is your strongest tool for establishing emotional hooks in a girl.
Society will spit this mantra that sex "complicates things" and that having sex too early can spoil things for a girl. That's complete bullshit. If you have sex with a girl and she drops out of your life, guess what. She was going to anyway. Don't blame the sex. She had sex with you for a reason, and she left you for a reason. If she cited the sex as the reason, then she's lying to you. She probably regretted the sex, sure, but for harsher reasons than you're letting yourself believe. She probably was horny one night but was never really into you enough to want to commit, and with her many options for dick, yours wasn't good enough for her to come back to. Let her go do her thing and realize her mistake, but don't let her fool you into thinking it was the sex that ruined it for her.
What usually happens is the sex itself makes it harder for your normal girl to rationalize leaving you. And back to Svoboda's point. If you banged her, she would have a mental block about not dating you, or at least about not pursuing something more, because then she would have to try to rationalize her slut behavior. If she's a slut, then that won't be too hard because her rationalization capabilities will be so powerful that she'll find a way to disqualify it. But sex will never help the girl disqualify a LTR.
In my experience (along with the experience of many other men), sex makes the girl respect you as someone who can deliver what she wants, and makes her more committed to you.
There's a quote floating around that redbeard brought to my attention last week, and it goes something like this: "Before sex, it's our fight; but after sex, it's the woman's fight." After sex, the girl will often feel obligated to start fighting to keep you from leaving her. So, in a way, society is right when it says that sex complicates things—it puts the ball in her court for once.
This last part sounds a lot like you're letting her slip away. That might be just me, but from what you wrote, you're letting this physically de-escalate, you're complicating your course of action, and she's taking time to "sort out her feelings".
Not to sound pessimistic, but all those things sound pretty bad as you wrote them.
The first problem is your mentality. You see her as "valuable," she's "rare" to you, and you're confused because you think that LTR game starts off as different than regular game.
There should be absolutely, positively, no difference in your approach of a girl you want to LTR and a girl you want to "regular" game. Game isn't something that just works on skanks and hoes. Too many guys, for whatever reason, think that gaming a girl that's "really special" or "unique" or "makes me feel good" somehow suddenly become different than gaming any other girl. Here's the key to success with girls you really like—treat the like any other girl.
Deal with her like any other girl, and she'll become any other girl, and then she'll be into you. Then you go into your LTR from there. And if you think that maintaining an LTR requires game fundamentally different from casual sex encounters, you're underestimating things a bit. You'll still see shit tests, still have to keep frame (in fact, you'll have to have stronger frame), still have to assert higher value, still have to deliver adequate dick, still be bold enough to take risks sometimes (hell, even practice brinksmanship when things get too bad), and still show the potential for pursuing options.
That's one example of how LTR game and "regular" game are extremely similar. Really, what's the point of game? It's pretty much to maximize the chances of getting a girl in the modern age. If it was better to let the girl set the pace and treat her like she's special and unique, then wouldn't that be game? Wouldn't that be how guys treat every girl?
What makes a girl willing to have sex with you requires the same fundamental approach for making a girl do anything else for or with you. And that includes—especially includes—LTRs. Girls are more picky and choosy about who they have sex with than anything else. If you can have sex with her, then you can bet that if relationships are an option for her (in this hook-up culture sometimes they won't be), she'll be more likely to be in a relationship with you. And when you get into the relationship, you can't give up your game and think it'll work out like the Notebook. That's an easy way to become one of those angry guys that gets frustrated with any and all relationships.
The thing is, you're already starting to give up your game. You're letting her pull back on the throttle here, and you're letting her control the pace. But, the pace of what? You haven't even had sex with her yet. She's vaguely "sorting out her feelings." There's a chance that she even wrote you off as the kind of guy who is incapable of giving her the quick sex she needs in the manner she wants. So, there's a chance that the opposite of what you thought was going to happen is happening.
I was going to write more but this post is already tl;dr material.
Here's what I would do: try to set up a nice little meet, escalate, and finally have sex with her. That's step 1. If you want, you can rationalize it to yourself as saying that you waited a while to have sex with her. Anything beyond this first step is happy thoughts I think. Kill the king before you sculpt your crown.
Good luck and let us know how it goes. Also, seeing as this thread is your first post, welcome to the forum.
Quote:Svoboda Wrote:
I bet if you would have fucked her, her hamster would've created the foundation for the relationship you desire.
This is all you need to know right here. This is the mindset you need. Take a leap of faith and internalize it.
I'll take this whole story at your word and give you my take. Hope it helps.
Quote: (10-02-2015 07:38 PM)SomeFcksGiven Wrote:
I've been chatting up this smoking hot girl that works at a coffee shop. [. . .]
After making out a couple of times I invite her to stay the night (it's getting late and I could tell she was feeling sleepy) We go up to my room and get in bed. She cuddles up to me and I start up the kino again. She's getting really turned on, slight moans, heavy breathing.. so I'm thinking IT'S ON.
For this half of the encounter, it sounds like you were solid. You went after it, took chances when you had to, and escalated like you should have. Plus it sounds like she was just flat-out into you. If this went down like you say it did, you did a good job.
The only thing you shouldn't have done was said that you were surprised she was single too. She gave you an easy chance to assert your level of value over her's in a subtle way, without you having to risk overgaming. Any time you can get the advantage of having a girl address you as having more MSV, in any way, you grab that shit. Here, you could've just nodded when she said she was single and not said you were surprised too.
Approaching it this way would make it less likely that she would regret letting you bang her quickly, because it is always much easier for a girl to justify having sex with a high(er)-value man. You let go of a chance to clinch this small advantage by putting yourself on an equal footing with her in the conversation.
This could sound minor to you, but girls tend to be very impressionable—if you can genuinely play it like it's not surprising that she's single, she will evaluate her value as a little less yours, making it easier for her to visualize herself with you (as you would be a better catch for her).
That's a lot of explanation for a small point.
Quote: (10-02-2015 07:38 PM)SomeFcksGiven Wrote:
I try to slide off her panties. [. . .]
There's huge LTR potential with her. So in my mind I'm thinking "ok, most likely I can nail her right fucking now.. but what's going to happen tomorrow? Is she going to feel like a slut and think I do this with every cute girl I meet? Is it worth ruining something potentially awesome with this girl for one single night of hot sex?" I've had that happen before with a girl that I really liked and was worried about repeating the mistake.
So I mustered up the willpower to cool things down. I told her I don't want to risk ruining anything if she's not ready, and I see a lot of future potential between us (chode move? Idk..) She seemed really happy and cuddled up to me, with those amazing tits pressed into my chest. My boner was really angry with me.
Here's where I think you fucked up. Your were cockblocked by a weak mentality. You let yourself believe what was clearly the signs of LMR (and you even note it as such).
Let me make two points here: 1) sex from cold day approaches is usually a grind when you hit the bedroom (especially with higher quality girls), and 2) the worst mentality you can have as a straight man is that sex with a girl can ever hurt you.
1.) From my experience, when you're dealing with a girl you met in the day (and I run 85% day game, so I see this a lot), for whatever reason, she'll throw up more LMR than a girl you met at night. That's pretty obvious. It might be the alcohol factor, it might be the fact that you're "more real" having met her in the day and that she has already seen you as more than some walking dildo in a club, I don't know.
Whatever the reason, you have to acknowledge the realities of that. Your mind has to be prepared for that extra step of grinding the girl into sex. Having met you in the day, she will be less likely to let herself jump into sex with you. But she has already made up her mind on whether or not she would have sex with you. What's required of you to expose this decision is tenacity, a leap of faith (i.e. put yourself out there and risk getting rejected badly), and attention to what she does versus what she says. Does she want sex? Well, looking at the facts, if this girl sleeps at your house, jumps into bed with you, lets her shirt and shorts get taken off, then yes, she wants sex. And she's in your bed. Why not just go home and have the satisfaction of sleeping in her own bed? That is not a glorified make out session, my man. The girl wants dick.
It's easy as a man to lose sight of that, but you have to be prepared to look at the whole thing objectively. She wants sex. Her dilemma is that she can't just give it to you. So, you deliver the sex the way she wants it, and you start the grind.
That means, starting from the first "no" where she physically shows that she's still available for the option of sex, you work her until she can't resist sex anymore. Or, at least, you make her feel like you did. You keep this up until she's satisfied with your performance in giving her the rationalization of having to just "let" you have sex with her. She tried not to, but it "just happened." The "no" really translates to "not yet."
Of course, it "just happened" because you worked her. You kissed her everywhere, you grinded your dick on her, you slapped her ass while she was on top of you, you sucked her tits, you did everything you could for as long as you had to. You know what else happens when you do that? The sex is even more rewarding.
2.) Having sex with a girl will never hurt your chances of making something happen with a girl.
I know you cite an example that seems to counter this point, but let me assure that outside of that 1% outlier of mentally unstable girls who have sex and then become freaked out and repulsed by the thought of being with you (which are girls who are both incapable of commitment and not LTR material anyway), sex itself will not ruin anything for you. In fact, quick sex is your strongest tool for establishing emotional hooks in a girl.
Society will spit this mantra that sex "complicates things" and that having sex too early can spoil things for a girl. That's complete bullshit. If you have sex with a girl and she drops out of your life, guess what. She was going to anyway. Don't blame the sex. She had sex with you for a reason, and she left you for a reason. If she cited the sex as the reason, then she's lying to you. She probably regretted the sex, sure, but for harsher reasons than you're letting yourself believe. She probably was horny one night but was never really into you enough to want to commit, and with her many options for dick, yours wasn't good enough for her to come back to. Let her go do her thing and realize her mistake, but don't let her fool you into thinking it was the sex that ruined it for her.
What usually happens is the sex itself makes it harder for your normal girl to rationalize leaving you. And back to Svoboda's point. If you banged her, she would have a mental block about not dating you, or at least about not pursuing something more, because then she would have to try to rationalize her slut behavior. If she's a slut, then that won't be too hard because her rationalization capabilities will be so powerful that she'll find a way to disqualify it. But sex will never help the girl disqualify a LTR.
In my experience (along with the experience of many other men), sex makes the girl respect you as someone who can deliver what she wants, and makes her more committed to you.
There's a quote floating around that redbeard brought to my attention last week, and it goes something like this: "Before sex, it's our fight; but after sex, it's the woman's fight." After sex, the girl will often feel obligated to start fighting to keep you from leaving her. So, in a way, society is right when it says that sex complicates things—it puts the ball in her court for once.
Quote: (10-02-2015 07:38 PM)SomeFcksGiven Wrote:
She stayed at my house the next day. We talked, laughed, went to dinner, came back, watched another movie, and she stayed the night again. But this time she was a little more reserved. I wasn't making much progress beyond kissing. I could sense that she wasn't down for any hanky-panky, so I didn't persist.
This morning we woke up and talked some more. She said she's had a great time the past couple of days, but needs time to get her feelings sorted out (Knowing what this usually means, my boner felt like jumping off a cliff)
So here's my dilemma: Like I said earlier, I like this girl. I see her as true gf potential. Not just a hit it and quit it. I know she's still not technically single, and most of you are probably shaking your heads about that. I get it. And most girls in that situation I wouldn't even consider anything beyond a pump and dump. But this feels different. And I'm conflicted about how to handle it. [. . .]
As a die-hard red pill guy (been a lurker on here for years) I can't believe I'm even typing this post. That should tell you something about the qualities I see in her. So far she seems like one of the extremely rare good ones this side of the Atlantic.
This last part sounds a lot like you're letting her slip away. That might be just me, but from what you wrote, you're letting this physically de-escalate, you're complicating your course of action, and she's taking time to "sort out her feelings".
Not to sound pessimistic, but all those things sound pretty bad as you wrote them.
The first problem is your mentality. You see her as "valuable," she's "rare" to you, and you're confused because you think that LTR game starts off as different than regular game.
There should be absolutely, positively, no difference in your approach of a girl you want to LTR and a girl you want to "regular" game. Game isn't something that just works on skanks and hoes. Too many guys, for whatever reason, think that gaming a girl that's "really special" or "unique" or "makes me feel good" somehow suddenly become different than gaming any other girl. Here's the key to success with girls you really like—treat the like any other girl.
Deal with her like any other girl, and she'll become any other girl, and then she'll be into you. Then you go into your LTR from there. And if you think that maintaining an LTR requires game fundamentally different from casual sex encounters, you're underestimating things a bit. You'll still see shit tests, still have to keep frame (in fact, you'll have to have stronger frame), still have to assert higher value, still have to deliver adequate dick, still be bold enough to take risks sometimes (hell, even practice brinksmanship when things get too bad), and still show the potential for pursuing options.
That's one example of how LTR game and "regular" game are extremely similar. Really, what's the point of game? It's pretty much to maximize the chances of getting a girl in the modern age. If it was better to let the girl set the pace and treat her like she's special and unique, then wouldn't that be game? Wouldn't that be how guys treat every girl?
What makes a girl willing to have sex with you requires the same fundamental approach for making a girl do anything else for or with you. And that includes—especially includes—LTRs. Girls are more picky and choosy about who they have sex with than anything else. If you can have sex with her, then you can bet that if relationships are an option for her (in this hook-up culture sometimes they won't be), she'll be more likely to be in a relationship with you. And when you get into the relationship, you can't give up your game and think it'll work out like the Notebook. That's an easy way to become one of those angry guys that gets frustrated with any and all relationships.
The thing is, you're already starting to give up your game. You're letting her pull back on the throttle here, and you're letting her control the pace. But, the pace of what? You haven't even had sex with her yet. She's vaguely "sorting out her feelings." There's a chance that she even wrote you off as the kind of guy who is incapable of giving her the quick sex she needs in the manner she wants. So, there's a chance that the opposite of what you thought was going to happen is happening.
I was going to write more but this post is already tl;dr material.
Here's what I would do: try to set up a nice little meet, escalate, and finally have sex with her. That's step 1. If you want, you can rationalize it to yourself as saying that you waited a while to have sex with her. Anything beyond this first step is happy thoughts I think. Kill the king before you sculpt your crown.
Good luck and let us know how it goes. Also, seeing as this thread is your first post, welcome to the forum.
Quote:PapayaTapper Wrote:
you seem to have a penchant for sticking your dick in high drama retarded trash.