[Off The Reservation]

(09-28-2015 01:38 PM)blacknwhitespade Wrote:  

(09-28-2015 12:49 PM)offthereservation Wrote:  

(09-18-2015 07:44 PM)blacknwhitespade Wrote:  

For those of you who have married or dated long-term with a foreign woman, how did you build that relationship, that foundation? How did you get your mind around the cultural/identity/geography differences? How do you navigate these differences? If you marry and have children, how do you get your mind around having your relatives divided between two countries/cultures? How do your children develop solid identities?

Currently, I am dating a Mexican woman. We have the romance, attraction, common interests, starting to grasp each other's vibe; but we've already encountered some verbal/emotional miscommunications and the nuances of cultural differences, different identities, loyalties, etc. She's indomestiza Mexican, more first world/urban, but definitely not a fresa. She and her family are a good example of the emerging Mexican middle class. College-educated, Protestant/religious, American-savvy (she speaks fluent English and lived in the USA for several years when she was younger), well-travelled, planning to start a family business.

I'm an American white man, still working on my conversational Spanish skills and trying to learn more about Mexican culture and LTR game with a Mexican woman. I am fascinated with Mexico, but definitely feel a bit more naturally comfortable and partial to the more American/European-ish aspects of the country and culture. I haven't traveled much through the rest of LA, but from what I've studied/heard, I would also be more attracted to the regions that are more Western influenced (Argentina, Chile, urban Colombia, etc).

I also have some questions/concerns about how the future would look if I married a girl like this. She would probably come to the USA and have kids with me. When you do something like this, what do your kids become? American? Bi-cultural? Does your foreign wife Americanize some? Do you make compromises and sort of become at least a part of her culture as well? Will her culture accept you or always see you as somewhat foreign?

I'm just curious to hear stories of how some of you have gone about the cultural nuances, communication, logistics, families, and family identity. Any tips on LTR Game with Latin women would be appreciated as well.

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Where do you and she live (region is ok I am just asking if this is long distance and or if you are living in mexico) Both in SoCal?

I live in Chicago and she's in Jalisco.

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How did she become Protestant?

A few of her elders became born-again Protestants, then it spread through part of her family. They are pretty conservative. Some of her family are Catholics.

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Who will pay for this business of hers?

No detailed plans for that yet.

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What do you do and generally what is your "status?"

Mechanical Engineer with a BSME.

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Her age and your age range?

I'm 34 and she's 29.

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Her entire family lives where?

They're mostly in Oaxaca, Jalisco and Zacatecas. She and her parents lived in Texas for several years where she completed an AA degree. Her brother still lives and works for a tech company in Texas. They're pretty American savvy Mexicans. She speaks fluent English and her dad regularly travels to the USA and other countries. They're fairly international people.

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Oh and does she have kids.

Hell no!

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You have only said you are white and don't know Spanish.

I know passable conversational Spanish, but need to improve to understand the deeper nuances of romantic, social, cultural, emotional topics.

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And please explain what this means:
but we've already encountered some verbal/emotional miscommunications and the nuances of cultural differences, different identities, loyalties, etc.

She seems to have a negative/pessimistic attitude sometimes as if she doesn't understand why I would be interested in her, doesn't think she is deserving of me. I don't know. The first time I visited her, I kissed her on the cheek as a sign of flirting/interest, she later told me she though that meant that I only wanted to be friends with her. Some of it has to do with her inexperience moreso than any cultural difference -- she's never had a serious boyfriend before.




I will answer you in detail.

Thanks OP for all the detail. This really helps forum posters see the whole picture.

I am coming at you with the perspective of being about 10 years older than you and having both married and divorced and LTRd and STRd Latina women. Also, I would be willing to bet I have been to more of Latin America than anyone on this board. Now I like a lot about Mexican culture but I am not going to be your cheerleader today. So let me play devils advocate and get you thinking about some bigtime life questions dude. I bring you my opinion and observations, as no man can judge your situation fully like you can. So I as a perfect stranger will tell you what I see...

Well there are a lot of issues here so in no particular order.

1. Your title about building a foundation.
Since you are a man of the Bible I refer to the Bible. You cannot build your house on sand. If there is no foundation then there is no foundation. I sense you are trying to convince yourself there is more there than exists in reality based on your going on about education etc. Education is a value in Mexico so don't use superficial measures to trick yourself that there is something there, if you actually want something more, as in more foundation to go forward. You are not too old so get over that crap.

2. Your own state.
Many many before me on this forum have said in game don't allow your hunger to ruin your game. Do not allow your hunger for a wife to ruin your thinking.

3. This family business business.
What this means to me is that you are being groomed for a new job. That job is venture capitalist. I can almost assure you as if I had a magic dictionary that an aspiring merchant girl from Mexico saying this to you (and you have not bothered to discuss who will fund this) means that by DEFAULT you are the funding source. So not only will you have the instant strain of a girlfriend or wife AND THE MONEY THAT GETS SENT TO MEXICO, you will also be a venture capitalist for whatever dream she has. Unless you are a dream-crushing motherfucker who say no that is no my fucking problem! I say this to you as a guy who built one of the most beautiful hair salons in America and has nothing to show for it except this advice to you!!

4. Long distance
Wow dude you have the danger of falling in love with the fantasy of what ever you think she is since you don't really know her.

5. Class
The most under appreciated aspect of international relationships.
Yep I said it.

I want you to know that there is an element I have observed over and over again in Latina - American guy relationships. It is so subtle and so profound it may be the #1 reason for outright failure of these relationships (they don't all fail) or a nagging and growing sense of dissatisfaction on the guy part.

This is going to sound harsh but it goes something like this. MANY of these girls basically have no self esteem. Then along comes the white knight American who treats them with respect, listens to them whine and bitch, and generally tells them "it will be ok." (Does this already describe you?) This gets a reward at first. Then somewhere along the line the guy wonders what has happened. In actuality self esteem comes from rational values and rational living, as opposed to paranoia, superstition, and manipulative families and societies. So you shower this girl with esteem and it backfires one day because she has an internal message playing that says "if he respects me and i don't even respect myself what does that make me, i guess he is a bigger piece of shit than me." Now begin the bad treatment. Meanwhile you nag and whine trying to change her back and just cant figure out what happened. WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO YOUR LITTLE LOVELY LATINA PRINCESS?? Could be after you have kids or before but ask around, this has happened to a lot of guys. Maybe you found the unicorn dude how the fuck should i know?

Also she is not middle class like you know it but you will make her middle class. Middle class there can be 10k a year. Ask the tough questions that our protestant upbringing told us not to. How much money does your dad make in order to live like that in Mexico?

You also should consider the implications with the society that you live and work in. It is one thing to bring a girl around who blends in and can talk to your friends and friends wives, it is another to bring the one everyone thinks is the maid. Sorry to be harsh you asked bro.

6. Women are a commodity in most Latin cultures. Or at least their cultures still function as such. You need to ask hard questions. Why was she not taken at 21 and impregnated and made the good wife of a good family in her town? FIND OUT. They don't leave many good ones behind. Sorry to break it to you but 29 is totally passed over in that culture. Add 15 years for the cultural equivalent.

7. WCS
Worst case you need to ask yourself if you want a woman taking your kids to Mexico if the shit hits the fan. If you are not 100% certain who she is why don't you find out before you get hot and heavy. It does not sound like you are going to pump and dump or we would not be having this thread.

8. Best thing in your info, the family connections to the US. Scariest is this lack of experience and strange conflict you are having before this even gets going.

9. And finally you. You have other threads wanting to travel etc. So whats it going to be? Travel the world on some engineering job for a few years or bring the princess to chicago and make little ones.

The only "advice" I will give you if you go forward is never compromise your standing as a man for a (Latina) woman. She will lose all respect for you. You advance in your career etc as needed as a man. Don't give up any standing for her requests. Your other questions I leave to others.

Me? I am looking for my princess too I have done some serious traveling already.