Quote: (12-20-2014 07:54 PM)jimukr104 Wrote:
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'm going to use the "ban" word, because banned is a good description of the chokehold the officer used. The police are authorized to use violent and deadly force at their discretion, with the understanding that they are given training to minimize harm when possible, and that they are to abide by this training. This training involves using techniques to bring down criminals in a way that causes minimal medical damage to the subject. If the officer decides to deviate from his training and use techniques that were banned specifically because of their danger to the subject, then I believe he should be FULLY AND COMPLETELY RESPONSIBLE when those techniques have unintended outcomes. Is any part of this paragraph disagreeable to you?
Agreed..but it still isn't criminal. The dept made that rule (politics mostly) but it isn't proven that it is more dangerous to perps. Nor does the gov't as a whole agree with that. NYPD can't persecute criminals for doing things that are legal statewide. That other police dept's actually use. It is a work rule no different than the analogy I made in legal terms. Of course a work rule relating to police is going to have more dangers to it than being late.
You must have missed another post I posted that many EXPERTS in law enforcement actually think that chokeholds are less dangerous than other methods due to the fact that it takes down the perp faster and less chance of injury that a long struggle ensures. In law enforcement, safety to all includes a take down that is fast.
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The police are authorized to use violent and deadly force at their discretion, with the understanding that they are given training to minimize harm when possible, and that they are to abide by this training.
Bingo..and those officers at the scene (under the supervision of 2 bosses btw) obviously did that.They didn't take out guns or batons which would have been overkill..maybe!
I was in the academy 8 months..where is this training you speak of? lol. I assure you they did no such thing. Funny how you know about what training I had(rolls eyes)
In fact I remember giving each other head locks that looked VERY similar to what I saw in the video. I also remember being told..constantly that in a fight do everything to increase our safety!
They told us NO choke holds that was it lol!
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Also, the slippery slope fallacy is often blatantly present in your posts. I refuse to address slippery slope arguments.
That is your problem,I telling it like it is, but the NYC law enforcement model for the last 20 years has been the 'broken window enforcement' so it might come across as SLIPPERY SLOPE, but that is what had drived down crime in the last 2 decades and the majority of New Yorker's don't want that changed. In fact the protesters demand a change and the Mayor even stated that he has no intention of changing that. The whole model is based on stopping 'could be crimes' by enforcing smaller stuff.
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Some guy sells loose cigarettes, something one guy should have given him a ticket for, and is strangled to death. On camera, while screaming I can't breath.
1. Guy got of him when he heard he couldn't breath.
2. Actually you NEVER see other footage of what took place before. They were trying to talk him down.
Truth is they told him that they would take him in for a desk appearance TICKET(DAT). Those tickets have to be given in the station because they have to be approved by the ADA and of course a warrant check has to be done to make sure he can get one , meaning he isn't wanted on other warrants.
He chose to say that he isn't going to be taken in,his words were something like ' this ends today, fighting/resisting words.
But if he cooperated and didn't have other pending charges, he would have been given a DAT. Maybe he knew he had other charges he was hiding??? Who the fuck knows.
But what I do know is that there isn't any summons(ticket) written in the street for what he was doing. Pretty sure if there was the average cop would have done it since it is much easier.
As for racism. None from the cops that is for sure. The sgt. who ordered it was black even.
But ironically in NYC a white guy or any race who cooperated would get a DAT. The black guy thinks he should get different treatment? wtf? Why is a DAT good enough for a white guy or a Chinese peddler but not good enough for Eric? Yeah your right it is racism..from Erics part!
Act like everyone else and maybe he would have been treated like everyone else?
The most guilty of racism could be said to be the victim/complainant who called 911. You realize that the call came over the radio right?
He was reported by someone.. a civilian. Maybe the bodega owner..perhaps? Was it because he was costing the store owner cigarette sales? Was it because the owner thought a black guy that big is intimidating his customers?
These are questions we may never get the answer of. But I think if the bodega owner was losing business to a cigarette seller outside his entrance, he wouldn't care what color the guy was.
I also don't think cops came quicker due to his color. I will say the area..mostly Italian is probably among one of the most racist in the city. But that is the topic for a different conversation.