Quote: (03-11-2018 06:01 PM)Perspicacity Wrote:
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So that would be advice from myself to myself, and to you guys, regarding daygame, and other forms of game: Watch out for the goalposts shifting; always ask yourself if the price has gone up, and—whether it has or not—if you're still willing to pay it; ask yourself if your persistence at a certain type or extent of game has more to do with someone shaming you (especially if it's internet rando's) for being behind the times or a pussy or quitter, or trying to preserve the self-identity you've built, than it actually giving you an acceptable ROI.
Damn, I thought I could have complex and highly introspective thoughts sometimes. Your post was like a derivative of a derivative of a derivative. Despite others' protests it is certainly relevant to day game, if anything more so than the wide-eyed day gamer might realize. But it's understandable that, just as reading Bodi's memoir, many guys will not even want to get into that. "The red pill of the red pill" is an astute description of this.
Despite faked videos and slightly inflated stats (my suspicion) I have confidence that Tom Torero has traveled the world and got many, many notches. Yet from whom does he feed? Initially he had the most bare apartment as described by Bodi or Krauser (can't remember which). Torero sells his previously successful, pre-smartphone, pre-social media vetting day game to thirsty, naive, socially awkward guys for the most part. I would recommend Torero's daygame documentary available on his channel for free. What seems consistent with each guy on there is (a) an implied lack of success, or at best very low conversion rates; (b) the expression of the word "pain" in interview. The best of this cohort of Torero's former students claims a ~1.5% conversion rate. Maybe that's true, he's awkward but tall. They all run robot LDM i.e. run around, direct complement, slightly clown like or forced observation(s). My own vibe is better than these guys (except Torero and his wing of course), and I go in with the least energy required. They've done hundreds, most of them over a 1000, of approaches, and it is conspicuously unclear (except for the 1.5% guy) how many of these approaches have actually turned into sex let alone any kind of relationship.
No wonder guys are sitting on the toilet swiping away accepting low/average quality girls from their phones - because the other option is not just a quick "smash n grab" "in and out" one time bank robbery type shit as online game 1st date bangs can be - no, day game requires effort, pain and personal introspection that, to be honest, the average guy doesn't want anything to do with. He just wants to bang, and have maybe a nice relationship or a nice rotation. Unfortunately a "nice rotation" gets harder and harder by the day. So in the forum "+1" thread, most +1 are coming from online, not surprising, and not to deride these guys at all, indeed maybe these guys are just being smart. Only a masochist would expose himself to day game in its modern form. In the aforementioned documentary, Torero's wing, very successful now (or so they say), went to Belgrade for his first "Euro jaunt", thinking he was going to get easy, hot, sweet EE girls in fun, pleasant interactions. The result: after repeated rejections, he had a nervous breakdown and flew home immediately as his panic attacks were unrelenting. It gave me a bit of confidence to know that a now successful guy in day game had what has almost become a day game rite of passage: "the EE nervous breakdown".
The problem is absolutely the expectation of sunshine and roses, against the reality of it being - all things being considered - just as difficult at home, if not more so. The only difference is you get a slight bump in SMV in some places, especially if you look different in a good way e.g. you have white skin but dark features in Poland, and crucially there are actually many attractive girls.
One issue you raise - and I will PM you about this so as to not clog this thread up - is the current almost requirement to be "vetted" no longer face to face, but by your social media. Instagram can work somewhat, but what a girl whom you cold approach wants to have is data. "I'm attracted but who is this guy? Who is he, REALLY?" And since you can "lie" via game by your style, verbals, heck even on point non-verbals, you can't lie about "how many friends you've got" or "who your parents are" etc. I have no (((face)))book or (((instagram))) for obvious reasons, I like my privacy. But in Poland, girls interested in me would ask for my Facebook, so they could see who I really am. I don't want my family involved in my PU attempts. So I'd have to create a (((face)))book account and VK from scratch.
In Torero's modern approaches i.e. today, social media info is exchanged and she "checks him out" (usually FB) but I think Torero has surely got to have a well constructed account that doesn't bring in his actual family. His worldwide travel, pictures etc. serve as "proof" more than his in-person game to the girl: who ever thought pictures and words on a screen would carry more weight than you right in front of her. Maybe girls suspect now that guys can genuinely falsify vibe, fake confidence so well that this is not enough anymore, especially given her other choices e.g. in her social circle who are "vetted" in that manner. Your FB is like your 2018 "credit check". Unlike Tom's wing in Belgrade, I found the non-bitchy looking polish girls to be at least polite, and often receptive (this is sometimes difficult to separate, admittedly, until you go for the number), yet I still found the yield poor. I admit maybe this was due to my high expectations of a "golden age" that has long passed. If this is true, this should lead to reevaluation of the strategy, as would happen in any other pursuit. Of course we all know relocation is necessary. Yet in my youth the idea of "Euro Jaunts" or now "Going to [insert shithole in Ukraine/Russia/Poorer FSU]" would have been met with the question "That sounds scary as hell and would cost a lot of money, why the hell would you go there for girls when there are plenty where you are who share your language and culture?"
What I want to know however is whether a very convincing FB Account is now required in 2018? I've always kept a few close good friends. If I must do this shit, I guess I will have to make a superficial but convincing profile and add random people I meet that I wouldn't trust with $50 in my pocket. I think girls may have caught on to the idea of guys on IG posting awesome pics as a heavily glorified story of their lives, because girls do this themselves. Family and friends are a lot harder to fake. I had a few polish girls who I just sensed were attracted but didn't trust me for shit. They wanted to "credit check" me. I wonder if I should just yield and start building my "credit file".