Quote: (09-15-2012 08:42 AM)Vorkuta Wrote:
Quote: (09-14-2012 09:42 PM)tenderman100 Wrote:
The people who are attacking our embassies, killing our diplomatic representatives, burning our flag, and throwing molotov cocktails are the fucking scum of the earth. They should be obliterated. Smashed. Destroyed. Quashed. And I could give two shits whether you or anyone like you is offended. Go to hell.
Yes but what you don't seem to understand is that in their eyes YOU are the scum of the earth. You say burning a flag makes them scum,they say bombing innocent wedding parties in Afghanistan and then denying it is scumish. You say throwing Molotov cocktails makes you scum,they say making prisoners in a gaol perform gay sex acts on each other and filming it is the action of scum. You say attacking an embassy is the action of a scumbag,they say invading Iraq on a false pretext is scumbagish. And just like you are calling for them to be obliterated,they too are calling for you to be. Who is right,who is wrong? Welcome to the war on terror baby!
While I understand that many things are relative to an extent, let's not get carried away with relativism, unless you believe the Marines are no different from Al Queda. We don't set out to bomb wedding parties. If we do end up accidentally killing civilians it's because the people we fight embed themselves amongst the civilian position for cover. Our military would be more than happy to confront them out on the battlefield far away from any civilian targets. And we know who would win that fight. So that's why terrorists use civilians as cover. That doesn't mean we are deliberately targeting civilians. On the other hand, the terrorists DO deliberately target civilians. If you can't see that distinction, then I don't know what to tell you. When our military got busted for misconduct at Abu Graib, we punished them for doing it. Does their side punish their own for misconduct against the enemy? Do you hear them apologizing or punishing their own for sawing Daniel Pearl's head off on TV? If you think both sides are moral equivalents, just imagine what the world and your freedoms would look like if they were the superpower with all the nukes. The whole damn world would be converted to Islam by the sword.
Quote: (09-15-2012 08:39 AM)naughtynomad Wrote:
This has nothing to do with liberalism, the Republicans or the Democratics. The US, like all states, acts as a realist power regardless of whose in charge. It is not an 'evil empire' nor it is a normative one. It simply acts in it's own interests.
Agreed. I think for an "empire" America is relatively benign one compared to most empires throughout history. I would hate to think what would have happened if it were Iran or Egypt as the most powerful nation on earth.
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Sadly, the US is screwed either way. Authoritarian regimes are often better than democracies who vote for radicals. During the Arab Spring in Tunisia, Egypt, and Libya, Islamic parties cleaned up in elections. Now look at what's happening.
Yes, that's why the left is annoying with all their "aha! See America is hypocritical!" talk. From a realist perspective, democracy is only as good as the people it springs from. Democracy works best with an enlightened, educated and rational constituency. Not a bunch of radical, violent, religious nuts that think Jews use Palestinian blood for Matzoh ball soup.
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Ultimately, religion is to blame. We need a 'War on God.' Education is the only weapon for that. And an education from old books like the Quran and the Bible is the worst type you can get.
Well, not a war on god per se, as many people are believers without being fanatical about it. What we need is rationality and enlightenment in that region. The Muslim world actually used to be freer place 1000 years ago when they were at the forefront of science and discovery. This type of religious radicalism is a relatively recent phenomenon.