[Dr. Howard]

(03-21-2014 03:05 PM)JJ Roberts Wrote:  

(03-21-2014 02:59 PM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  

I agree that child rearing with 2 parents is precarious. I like the extended family basis of grandparents aunts and uncles

The reason why this is also precarious is that this also breaks down when the couple split in many cases.

A tribe of care givers plus both parents is easily the most robust model as it is not breakable by divorce.

Good discussion so far, I don't think I'd argue against any points except the following;

1. Isn't a tribe still structure that keeps people from acting on their natural instincts? As you had mentioned above, lying, stealing etc would get you thrown out of the tribe. I think those are natural behaviours/instincts and threat of punishment is what keeps people from doing them. A dog will steal food from another dog.

2. I can't get behind the whole 'egalitarian hunter gather tribes' thing, it creates the 'noble savage' notion in my head where its the north american indian living in peace and harmony with his neighbors. I have no way to prove it than saying that native people I know today don't strike me as different than myself so I would imagine they would also have had to deal with foregoing their natural urges to bang every woman, kill every man that pissed them off and steal what wasn't nailed down. Or maybe that the stories of "the raven" from the west coast constantly tricking, stealing and sleeping with women means that those were still tribal issues.

3. I agree that paternity tests are great but maybe I don't understand how that helps either to acknowledge that monogamy is not a natural instinct, inhibit slutty behavior or provide for an improved version of monogamy. I think paternity tests in a world where there was no birth control or abortions would do something for monogamy but I'm not clear on what you mean otherwise.

The overall direction I was trying to go in was: Just because a human behavior is natural or instinctual doesn't mean its the best fit to one's survival or personal satisfaction. Monogamy is unnatural, but advantageous if mutually assured. Don't get me wrong though, i think mutual assurance of monogamy today is tougher than it has been historically.