I'm thinking about making a second profile just so I can crash the discussion on some of these groups. The one guy in that forum named Ryan posting seems to have some red pill knowledge(maybe he should be invited to the forum). He drops this gem to a woman with a child-like naivete:
Some of these women are even dropping the "R" word. Equating what some of us are doing with RAPE!! Wow, just fucking wow...
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I really do want to avoid getting drawn further in to this discussion, but let me try to at least quickly address a couple points and I'll also try to sum up the position of the men from that site.
I would LOVE if people could be open and straightforward about wanting sex, and enjoy it openly without neuroses and bullshit and deception. But it's just not the way the world works. As I mentioned earlier, women go through the pretense for psychological and social reasons, men do it out of practical necessity.
It's very easy for women to find sex if they want it. I'm not saying it's easy for women necessarily to find everything they want- guys who are emotionally available, commitment, and ideal family life, profound and spiritual intimacy, someone attractive and charming enough that all your friends approve... all that stuff can be hard to come by. But if all you're looking for is sex, as a woman you can have as much as you want. Guys can't.
I don't like Jim Jeffries that much but he does sum this up quite succinctly:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jaiMzLhliA
The guys who do figure out how to have sex with lots of women, aside from those who do so in SE Asia where any idiot can, have "game." Most of them don't think of it as deception. They think of it as knowing how to talk to a woman. It's not necessarily lying... because you can take a lot of different approaches to reaching the same goal and it's fine to be honest. You just have to be very careful about what *exactly* you say and do and how you present yourself.
The thinking is this: guys want sex. Women want sex. So there's nothing wrong with making it happen. But the guys who are good at making this happen understand that for a woman... if they are actually aware that someone is trying to make it happen, this is a big turn-off. Look at this thread. They see it as "creepy," "disgusting," hell... even as rape.
Women want sex but they want it to be spontaneous and unplanned, some of them want romance, some of them want some sort of emotional intimacy or connection because they are unable to enjoy sex without feeling bad about it afterward if they don't have this. So for these reasons it's important to make it seem like the situation evolved organically.
Now it was suggested that if guys want sex they should just come out and say it. Yeah... that doesn't work. Any idiot knows that. Close to 100% of the time that won't work. MAYBE if you have some strange angle... like inviting a girl to join a threeway for example... you might get bites 0.1% of the time. In Europe it could be more. European girls have a reputation for being more open-minded about this sort of frankness but I think all over the world, it at the very least diminishes your chances.
So why go the honesty route if you know that upwards of 90% of the time this is the EXACT WRONG thing to do?
You know that the woman you are speaking with probably enjoys sex. You know that if you end up having sex with her, there is a good chance that you will both enjoy it. And you know that if you just come out and ask for it, she will be repulsed and you will have just ruined ANY chance you EVER had of making it happen. This is why men aren't "honest" about it.
If men were truly honest about it all the time, unless they were famous, or extraordinarily attractive, or wealthy, or just incredibly charismatic and convincing... most likely they would be very sexually unfulfilled. As I pointed out... men's behavior is shaped by reward and punishment. Just like all animals. Men behave the way they do because of nature and because of the way women respond to their behavior. If women rewarded honesty with sex, men would be honest I guarantee it. But they don't.
If you go to one of those adult hook-up sites like AdultFriendFinder, you will find that the ratio of men to women is literally 10:1. If you filter out all the obviously fake profiles, inactive profiles, and profiles of girls claiming to be lesbians (usually men trying to get girls to send naked pictures), then the ratio drops to about 100:1. and then if you focus only on profiles of women whom are genuinely attractive, it drops to about 1000:1.
A man on these sites who tries messaging women will often never get a response. They can hang out in chat rooms there, but the women in the chat rooms are usually not what most men would find attractive. This is not a good option.
Now as to using CouchSurfing... as others have mentioned... men will use anything. Men who are good at meeting women have learned to never pass up any opportunity. The sensitive nice guys who do pass on opportunities end up sexually frustrated and cursing themselves daily for not taking advantage of the situation when it presents itself, angry at those guys who have more success with women because they are a little more aggressive, and often angry at the women who always say they want a sensitive nice guy but always end up sleeping with the "jerks." I know, I have been the sensitive nice guy before. I still am, to a certain extent. I can play up that aspect of my personality sometimes to make it easier for me to talk to women, in ways that I could not back when it was really more dominant than it is now.
So why CS? Really... to the men.. it's more like why not? ANY place that men and women interact with each other can be a chance to meet, and any meeting can potentially lead to sexual activity. As the guys on that site mention, CS *can* be good because of the fact that women want sex to evolve naturally and organically. If you meet a woman on a dating site, she is going to have her guard up. If you meet her somewhere else, she will be more relaxed. Though, if you read the posts there are as many guys commenting that CS is a bad place to meet women as there are those who claim it's a good place.
Ultimately, it's just the fact that there are women. Guys want to meet girls. They will take advantage of any opportunity they have to do so. Most women don't have to bother with this. They are used to men approaching them all the time, everywhere they go. Men are forced to take the initiative if they don't want to remain virgins their whole lives. They are forced to look for new and novel ways to meet women, because if too many guys have tried the same approach before, then it's not likely to work.
That's all it is. Nothing really insidious about it, IMO, just guys trying to have sex who understand the reality of male-female relationship dynamics. They're not trying to take advantage of anyone. They're trying to have sex, which could, and should, be enjoyable.
Some of these women are even dropping the "R" word. Equating what some of us are doing with RAPE!! Wow, just fucking wow...