Quote: (04-22-2010 03:01 PM)Giovonny Wrote:
Quote: (04-22-2010 01:24 PM)Valnardan Wrote:
It all goes against who I am, so it's going to be hard. I'm the nice guy, and I know better than anyone how INeffective it is. I always end up being the good friend with no benefits.
I think this whole "nice guy" vs. "bad boy" is really misunderstood.
Everyone thinks being a "nice guy" is a bad idea. Why???
Aren't the greatest playboys generally "nice" to girls? I can't think of any famous womanizers who are consistently mean to women.
Start treating girls bad and see how far that gets you...
Sure, if she grew up without a father/was abused and mistreated/grew up around violence and dysfuntion...then yes its very possible that she will respond more to being treated bad then being treated good. (This is usually an unhealthy "issue" for her)
If the girl has any self respect/esteem, i think its a better idea to treat her good. Of course some playful teasing and "negging" is always neccasary.
But if you take a "respectable" girl and treat her like shit. She will probably just think you are an asshole and she'll call me cause i make her laugh and treat her the way SHE THINKS SHE DESERVES TO TREATED.
Thats really the whole key. TREAT THEM THE WAY THEY WANT TO BE TREATED.
If i know a girl has low self worth, i will treat her bad, cause i know it will work. But after doing that for years I started to feel bad about it, cause i knew i was just taking advantage of the fact that she was abused as a child, and really i was just taking advantage of her and making her even more damaged in the long run.
Of course there are exceptions to every rule.
Nice guys get alot of pussy. You just gotta be a strong "nice guy".
I agree 100% with all of this.
For obvious reasons, no normal woman (not emotionally damaged, immature, or insecure) will stick with an emotionally abusive guy.
However, there are lots of emotionally damaged / immature / insecure women. Therefore, guys get confused about what works on high quality women.
However, for all women, you have to show them that you can be strong and that you have the emotional capacity to gently but firmly put her in her place if truly necessary (when she misbehaves or otherwise acts bratty/spoiled).
In essence, that you aren't a doormat, that you insist on leading and setting the tone in the relationship, and that she can't get away with bad behavior do to the fact that she has a vagina and is attractive.
Once you take that away from her, she will respect you.
Its more important to be consistent in your leadership, and not fold to her bratty attempts at manipulation, then it is to have some type of mean / dickish outburst that tries to get her to mold to your expectations in one shot.
Just keep reiterating your expectations in a firm but non-negative tone, even lighthearted whenever possible, and you will achieve the desired affect.
The only downside to this is that they may not take you as seriously at first, because many women are only used to the two extremes of behavior (the doormat and the abusive boyfriend), but they will ultimately see you as a higher quality guy that can effectively lead / dominate in the way that they want, without doing it in a emotionally fucked up and dysfunctional way. If you are good, you can read her responses and adjust how ‘mean’ you need to be by her reaction. After a while you can train her to respond to a very nice form of leadership, even if she expects and is used to mean guys.
In the terms of transactional psychology, this form of well adjusted leadership is informally referred to as "I'm OK, your OK".
Dysfunctional leadership is "I'm OK, Your not OK".
Doormat behavior is "I'm not OK. Your OK."
Complete social dysfunction would be "I'm not Ok. Your not OK".
Read "Prometheus Rising" by Robert Anton Wilson for a great / entertaining read on all of this.
Basically, you take her off of her pedestal that she has been put on by other, lesser men (doormats). Be nice, don't be mean about it or otherwise give off a negative vibe, but be firm and lead.
Once you do that, and she knows that you aren't a doormat, then feel free to treat her as nicely as you feel compelled to. Compliments, dinners, tell her you love her, whatever..It doesn't matter...It will all lead to her becoming emotionally closer to you.
However, due to how pussy and retarded most guys are these days in their approach to women, you almost always MUST be sexually active with her, and she must know that you aren't sexually needy, before you can lay it on thick. Women almost always otherwise assume that you are trading "niceness" for access to sex. This is because that is what most guys do. When they assume this, it gives women unnecessary power, and the gesture doesn't have the same psychological affect. You don't want that.
Its unfortunate, but you are combating the beta behavior of other men that she is used to, and is now defensive of.
Also, know when to break the rules.
If she truly behaves in a very bad way, like if she's drunk and publicly demeaning herself and by association, you, then its time to bring down the figurative pimp hand.
However, I do find it necessary to pepper in some 'mean' / cocky comments sometimes to keep women in the direction that you want them to head. I joke around so much in a cocky / funny way that most of the time she doesn't know if I'm serious or not, but the message gets sent. Thats the exact 'mix' that I want. I get to be mean-ish, and use some minor psychological tricks, without having to do it in a way that she interprets as being truly dickish. She's used to combating me in a joking way, that she doesn't feel bad, and isn't surprised, when I get a little bit direct / mean.
For instance, I find that most of the "directing" after while, with most women, comes in trying to control their eating habits. Even hot women will tend to let their weight get away from them after a while. Its almost as if women have no self awareness when it comes to food. I have found this to be near universal behavior in women over 25. Therefore, keeping them insecure is a relatively harmless way of keeping them on track with their weight.
In that instance its ‘meaness’ for the greater good. Meaning that I’ll be more likely to stay with her.
The great thing about girls that don't respond to a nicer form of leadership, is that if you go cold and act like they are too much trouble for you (which they are), then that is usually enough to bring them around, respond to you and to start reforming their behavior to meet your expectations.