@jeagle: Damn straight. 3 words I would use to describe day game: stone fucking cold.
I feel like I am creating something out of nothing, and sometimes it feels so unnatural and forced that I get the feeling that I "shouldn't" be doing this. Maybe some guys like to walk up to random girls in public with intent to start some kind of relationship, even with a most innocuous indirect opener, but I see it as hard work. I read parts of Krauser's first day game memoir and I laughed quite a few times, not in a happy way, but a sort of "fuck I know that feeling" or "fuck I've been in that situation". So far, no one, not even Roosh, had described in detail some of the things you go through in day game as a beginner and even when you get competent at it, days when it seems that all that success was just a figment of your imagination, when everything goes wrong. Near misses, annoying flakes, damn logistics, trying to escalate on a girl who is not having any of it, illness, cold weather, depressingly low conversion rates (especially at the start)... the list goes on...
And we wonder why even on this forum most new notches are from online. A lot of guys are still in the west so given the quality online in the west even if you are top 1% on these apps, I'm suspicious of the quality. Guys posting 7/10 when I'd probably say 5 at best. In other places the quality can be higher, but almost as some kind of grand equalizer, the average quality of real life girls also increases greatly so you're still choosing ease over quality. But if you consider how poor quality is in the west, and how much shit a man has to go through to get your average online slut, you can see why your average poosy refugee would be more than happy with far superior easy pickings online when he steps off the plane. He's happy with the major upgrade, even though there are levels he doesn't even know exist yet.
We're still in a stage, though, where online in some places is still a good ROI especially compared to real life cold approach, so you can understand why guys still use it. If I go to Bangkok for a holiday, I don't do P4P but I would go on the dating sites etc. because they still seem productive. In the states they are scraping the bottom of the barrel most of the time and there is no choice but to put the electronic devices down and do it the old fashioned way.
Krauser was a bald, average looking, middle aged, recently divorced, miserable, miserable man. On paper, he was about as close to Russian models as planet Earth is to fucking Andromeda. He had no right to fuck Russian models. Yet thousands of approaches later, thousands of failures and years of practise, he continued to demand hotter tighter until he finally got it. But still guys in SEA and SA tapping their screens are laughing as they do it the "easy" way.
I'm not even sure who is right anymore. It depends on your preferences. But what is true is that guys like Vinny or Krauser who "make it" in day game are outliers, they are not the norm. Introverted guys like Roosh who actually got success in DC and then all around the world despite not looking anything like the typical player archetype that girls go for - they are the outliers. The guys who are pushing top quality and top achievement in any pursuit be it game, sports or chess, are exceptions. I think this is why so many new lays reported on this site are from online. One of my casual friends recently said to me, "I don't know any couples who met through cold approach in the day, but I know loads of couples who met online. I've known maybe a few who met in a bar or club but that's gone down, it's mostly online now or at work."
I don't hate on the guys using online in SEA/SA - I would do the same as a supplement in those locations - but what irritates me is guys who have done zero or like fucking five day game cold approaches laughing at me for having goals of a certain quality of girl, and having much lower conversion rates as a result. They also laugh at Krauser/Roosh's "low" numbers as well, and it's when they're laughing at the numbers of some of the best guys in the world, teachers to thousands of other men, you know they have lost touch with reality. They are probably so spoiled by the quantity online and the ease of getting dates online, that they start to get a bit arrogant. Comparing the numbers and the ease of dates and closing on dates from online vs numbers from cold approach in the day is not possible because they are two completely different things. To me, a guy in SEA boasting about banging another 6 online is pointless, unless maybe he was a severely autistic virgin and really struggled even in SEA. If a man is in Russia and approached the girl in the middle of the street, I like to hear stories like that. I admire the achievement because I know how hard real life cold approach can be.
If you don't use the internet, it's very easy to go to another western country or even eastern european country for a month and come back with nothing to show for it. If you use the internet, you might be able to spam your virtual approaches enough times that you bang a low lying fruit, so at least you got something. Good on you if you want to do that. It's everyone's personal choice.
My choice when I am in EE is no online at all. Whatsapp/Viber etc. for easier contact of real life numbers, sure, but as far as making first contact with girls on dating sites and apps, I burn my bridges. It helps with motivation and focus because you know you must do it old school or you get nothing. And if you happen to get nothing despite your best efforts, there is at least some pride in the fact that you refused to run back to your old comfort zone, that you tried your best for the more elusive high quality, which cannot be found online.
I feel like I am creating something out of nothing, and sometimes it feels so unnatural and forced that I get the feeling that I "shouldn't" be doing this. Maybe some guys like to walk up to random girls in public with intent to start some kind of relationship, even with a most innocuous indirect opener, but I see it as hard work. I read parts of Krauser's first day game memoir and I laughed quite a few times, not in a happy way, but a sort of "fuck I know that feeling" or "fuck I've been in that situation". So far, no one, not even Roosh, had described in detail some of the things you go through in day game as a beginner and even when you get competent at it, days when it seems that all that success was just a figment of your imagination, when everything goes wrong. Near misses, annoying flakes, damn logistics, trying to escalate on a girl who is not having any of it, illness, cold weather, depressingly low conversion rates (especially at the start)... the list goes on...
And we wonder why even on this forum most new notches are from online. A lot of guys are still in the west so given the quality online in the west even if you are top 1% on these apps, I'm suspicious of the quality. Guys posting 7/10 when I'd probably say 5 at best. In other places the quality can be higher, but almost as some kind of grand equalizer, the average quality of real life girls also increases greatly so you're still choosing ease over quality. But if you consider how poor quality is in the west, and how much shit a man has to go through to get your average online slut, you can see why your average poosy refugee would be more than happy with far superior easy pickings online when he steps off the plane. He's happy with the major upgrade, even though there are levels he doesn't even know exist yet.
We're still in a stage, though, where online in some places is still a good ROI especially compared to real life cold approach, so you can understand why guys still use it. If I go to Bangkok for a holiday, I don't do P4P but I would go on the dating sites etc. because they still seem productive. In the states they are scraping the bottom of the barrel most of the time and there is no choice but to put the electronic devices down and do it the old fashioned way.
Krauser was a bald, average looking, middle aged, recently divorced, miserable, miserable man. On paper, he was about as close to Russian models as planet Earth is to fucking Andromeda. He had no right to fuck Russian models. Yet thousands of approaches later, thousands of failures and years of practise, he continued to demand hotter tighter until he finally got it. But still guys in SEA and SA tapping their screens are laughing as they do it the "easy" way.
I'm not even sure who is right anymore. It depends on your preferences. But what is true is that guys like Vinny or Krauser who "make it" in day game are outliers, they are not the norm. Introverted guys like Roosh who actually got success in DC and then all around the world despite not looking anything like the typical player archetype that girls go for - they are the outliers. The guys who are pushing top quality and top achievement in any pursuit be it game, sports or chess, are exceptions. I think this is why so many new lays reported on this site are from online. One of my casual friends recently said to me, "I don't know any couples who met through cold approach in the day, but I know loads of couples who met online. I've known maybe a few who met in a bar or club but that's gone down, it's mostly online now or at work."
I don't hate on the guys using online in SEA/SA - I would do the same as a supplement in those locations - but what irritates me is guys who have done zero or like fucking five day game cold approaches laughing at me for having goals of a certain quality of girl, and having much lower conversion rates as a result. They also laugh at Krauser/Roosh's "low" numbers as well, and it's when they're laughing at the numbers of some of the best guys in the world, teachers to thousands of other men, you know they have lost touch with reality. They are probably so spoiled by the quantity online and the ease of getting dates online, that they start to get a bit arrogant. Comparing the numbers and the ease of dates and closing on dates from online vs numbers from cold approach in the day is not possible because they are two completely different things. To me, a guy in SEA boasting about banging another 6 online is pointless, unless maybe he was a severely autistic virgin and really struggled even in SEA. If a man is in Russia and approached the girl in the middle of the street, I like to hear stories like that. I admire the achievement because I know how hard real life cold approach can be.
If you don't use the internet, it's very easy to go to another western country or even eastern european country for a month and come back with nothing to show for it. If you use the internet, you might be able to spam your virtual approaches enough times that you bang a low lying fruit, so at least you got something. Good on you if you want to do that. It's everyone's personal choice.
My choice when I am in EE is no online at all. Whatsapp/Viber etc. for easier contact of real life numbers, sure, but as far as making first contact with girls on dating sites and apps, I burn my bridges. It helps with motivation and focus because you know you must do it old school or you get nothing. And if you happen to get nothing despite your best efforts, there is at least some pride in the fact that you refused to run back to your old comfort zone, that you tried your best for the more elusive high quality, which cannot be found online.