Robert High Hawk,
Your comments are in bold:
@Boston BMW
You are ascribing things to me that I never said. Did I ever say that Puerto Rico is not a net drain on the USA? Did I ever say Puerto Ricans as a whole are some magical minority group that is great for America? What exactly are you talking about here?
Again, if you read through the thread, the main point of discussion is about how the addition of the Puerto Rico as a state. I argue that Ricans (both in the Mainland and on the Island) detract from the United States. This was before your diatribe against the policies of the United States being cause PR's economic malaise. Comprende?
As for being anti-colonialist, Puerto Rico has ALWAYS been a Colony, so I think you are characterizing my tact. I had the audacity to mention faulty US policy that has exacerbated an already lesser achieving economy in Puerto Rico, and has increased migration from the mainland as well as handicapped the Puerto Rican economy. Did I ever claim Puerto Rico would be equal to the US or worthy of statehood otherwise?
PR has been a Commonwealth not a colony in legal terms. Puerto Ricans are not subjects of the U.S. -- they enjoy full citizenship rights and free mobility. You followed the stock academic/liberal argument that Colonies have been exploited by the Imperial power (U.S.) – even if we accept your argument, I ask what have the Puerto Ricans achieved collectively once they arrived in the Mainland, with significantly more economic opportunities? They remained laggards even among later arriving Hispanic migrant groups. Therefore, I question the veracity of your argument that the policies of the United States are primarily and directly at fault for the Puerto Rico’s economic woes. Did American policies impact PR negatively? Sure. However the primary cause is linked to poor/corrupt governance and the societal shadow markets outside of government purview.
A great way to discourage Puerto Ricans out of the continental US would be to find a realistic way to improve the situation there. I don't think US culture and Puerto Rican (latin) culture is very compatible, and whatever steps we can do to preserve and strengthen both separately, starting with poor policy reformation, by BOTH the US and Puerto Rico, would go a long way. Please (sincerely) don't read into that statement more than just what it says.
While I agree with the spirit of your statement, I forward a different approach. We cannot be tasked with “improving” the situation there any longer. We should be devolving power to PR with the eventual planning for their independence. United States involvement in PR has yielded nothing but criticisms from the left/anti-colonialists such as yourself, therefore, we need to do the right thing and let PR become independent so that they can self-govern, make decisions to improve their country. Most of all, this dependency relationship needs to end.
Finally regarding the flag thing, I think a minor color tweek vs an entire design does not make the PR flag derivative of the US flag. It's derivative of Spanish flags, with a US inspired color. Fair?
I presented evidence backing up my assertions, where’s your evidence or is this pure conjecture? The flag of PR is a variant of the U.S. flag and not too dissimilar to flag of Ohio. By your logic, are you also going to claim the flag of Ohio is also a derivative of Spanish Flags?
![[Image: attachment.jpg36923]](https://rooshvforum.network/attachments/attachment.jpg36923)
You can keep stubbornly sticking to your unsupported claims, however the reality is starkly different.
I sincerely hope we can get some substantive ideas on how to move forward realistically. Too many potential Miss World and Miss Universes are at stake here, as well as some pretty outstanding Salsa music.
The way forward is for the United States to increase home rule and most importantly, local responsibility to the Puerto Rican people and the officials they elect. Eventually the commonwealth status needs to come to an end. The relationship with PR should evolve into the relationship that we have with Liberia.
Also, I’ll be fact checking some of your earlier claims as time permits.
Your comments are in bold:
@Boston BMW
You are ascribing things to me that I never said. Did I ever say that Puerto Rico is not a net drain on the USA? Did I ever say Puerto Ricans as a whole are some magical minority group that is great for America? What exactly are you talking about here?
Again, if you read through the thread, the main point of discussion is about how the addition of the Puerto Rico as a state. I argue that Ricans (both in the Mainland and on the Island) detract from the United States. This was before your diatribe against the policies of the United States being cause PR's economic malaise. Comprende?
As for being anti-colonialist, Puerto Rico has ALWAYS been a Colony, so I think you are characterizing my tact. I had the audacity to mention faulty US policy that has exacerbated an already lesser achieving economy in Puerto Rico, and has increased migration from the mainland as well as handicapped the Puerto Rican economy. Did I ever claim Puerto Rico would be equal to the US or worthy of statehood otherwise?
PR has been a Commonwealth not a colony in legal terms. Puerto Ricans are not subjects of the U.S. -- they enjoy full citizenship rights and free mobility. You followed the stock academic/liberal argument that Colonies have been exploited by the Imperial power (U.S.) – even if we accept your argument, I ask what have the Puerto Ricans achieved collectively once they arrived in the Mainland, with significantly more economic opportunities? They remained laggards even among later arriving Hispanic migrant groups. Therefore, I question the veracity of your argument that the policies of the United States are primarily and directly at fault for the Puerto Rico’s economic woes. Did American policies impact PR negatively? Sure. However the primary cause is linked to poor/corrupt governance and the societal shadow markets outside of government purview.
A great way to discourage Puerto Ricans out of the continental US would be to find a realistic way to improve the situation there. I don't think US culture and Puerto Rican (latin) culture is very compatible, and whatever steps we can do to preserve and strengthen both separately, starting with poor policy reformation, by BOTH the US and Puerto Rico, would go a long way. Please (sincerely) don't read into that statement more than just what it says.
While I agree with the spirit of your statement, I forward a different approach. We cannot be tasked with “improving” the situation there any longer. We should be devolving power to PR with the eventual planning for their independence. United States involvement in PR has yielded nothing but criticisms from the left/anti-colonialists such as yourself, therefore, we need to do the right thing and let PR become independent so that they can self-govern, make decisions to improve their country. Most of all, this dependency relationship needs to end.
Finally regarding the flag thing, I think a minor color tweek vs an entire design does not make the PR flag derivative of the US flag. It's derivative of Spanish flags, with a US inspired color. Fair?
I presented evidence backing up my assertions, where’s your evidence or is this pure conjecture? The flag of PR is a variant of the U.S. flag and not too dissimilar to flag of Ohio. By your logic, are you also going to claim the flag of Ohio is also a derivative of Spanish Flags?
You can keep stubbornly sticking to your unsupported claims, however the reality is starkly different.
I sincerely hope we can get some substantive ideas on how to move forward realistically. Too many potential Miss World and Miss Universes are at stake here, as well as some pretty outstanding Salsa music.
The way forward is for the United States to increase home rule and most importantly, local responsibility to the Puerto Rican people and the officials they elect. Eventually the commonwealth status needs to come to an end. The relationship with PR should evolve into the relationship that we have with Liberia.
Also, I’ll be fact checking some of your earlier claims as time permits.