Quote: (06-13-2017 01:10 PM)Robert High Hawk Wrote:
Before one judges me as a PR apologist, I want to first state unequivocally that I whole heartedly agree with the points laid out by Fisto and the article mentioned by Tokyo Joe.
Danny Alberta in particular laid out some very relevant facts about Puerto Rico.
Also, I am in strong favor of independence for Puerto Rico, executed responsibly and amicably, while retaining strong ties to USA.
That being said, this "fuck them" attitude is rather ignorant. Puerto Rico and the USA did not magically appear in this situation yesterday - Surprise surprise. It takes two to tango. Some history and context is in order:
1. Puerto Rico never, at any point, voluntarily joined the United States of America. There is little to no intrinsic national and cultural heritage to the US.
2. Puerto Rico would have GLADLY gotten independence had they been able to do so, right up until the 1950s. Let me say that again: most Puerto Ricans wanted to leave the USA, but the USA would not let them. So frankly now that sentiment has reversed, this "kick em out!" rhetoric is rather hallow and utterly meaningless.
3. In response to a growing nationalist movement, which culminated in an armed March on Congress and an the attempted assasination of Eisenhower, the USA's response was to severely and brutally suppress the Puerto Rican national movement, and placate the Puerto Ricans by dumping massive amounts of welfare on the Island (in addition to testing Agent Orange on the island, but that's a story for another day...). This created a ridiculous welfare state that exists today. The USA was scared shitless of another Cuba emerging, and did not let Puerto Rico become more independant and basically bribed the people into submission. Think of the mindset this cultivates over 3 generations now. Related...
4. Since it's existence, Puerto Rico has been crushed by bullshit federal regulation designed to protect American business interests. The Jones act requires any vessel inbound or outbound from Puerto Rico to stop on a mainland port first. That immediately makes foreign imports to Puerto Rico more expensive, as well as kills a huge source of revenue from transit cargo ships. This alone would have a huge positive impact on PRs economy. Why does it still exist? Bullshit Business lobbyists are preventing it from doing so. Some estimates are that PR loses BILLIONS because of this.
Another quick example is sugar. Puerto Rico used to be a mega sugar producer. Now they make hardly any. Why? Sugar subsidies to mainland farmers. Aside from the jobs lost, the industrial technical knowledge, workmanship, and work culture associated with this labor intensive industry is gone.
Finally on this point, and this is something that all RVF should agree with, congress MANDATED Puerto Rico raise it's minimum wage to the federal level. Puerto Rico never had an economy as robust or rich as the mainland, so now the minimum wage being too high just killed a lot of jobs, or simply grew the informal economy. Puerto Rico never wanted any of this.
Before we talk about how "screwed up" Puerto Rico/Puerto Ricans are, let's take an honest look at what is heavily contributing to it: Never even having a fighting chance.
One could argue that the USA made up for it by giving welfare, benefits etc... but that only created the dependency mindset you see today.
5. Relative to Latin and Central America, Puerto Rico has one of the highest per capita GDPs, even if you remove federal/state employment. Not saying it's some economic paradise, but it's certainly got potential.
6. The admittedly over-funded University system is probably one of the best in Latin/Central America, and even competitive with USA universities. USA recruiters are now flocking into PR to scoop up teachers, doctors etc... since they know they can higher them cheap. This only drains the PR talent and tax base and lowers wages in the US. Lose Lose.
7. The Puerto Rican economy is bad, for sure, but those stats do not tell the full story. There is a very large informal economy that exists, and while it's not accounted for, people still do things and work in PR, they just don't give their slice to the Man, since they know the gov is corrupt. Puerto Ricans (in general) are absolute suckers for materialistic Bullshit they see in Malls and Walmart. It's disgusting and sad, but my point is that these places in Puerto Rico are packed and doing record profit, so the money must be coming from somewhere.
7. Puerto Rico still has a strong, patriarchal and traditional culture (Abortion is illegal and so is gay marriage in PR). There is "poverty" in the statistical sense, but the standard of living for people is really not so bad, since family structure and community still exists and people take care of each other. It's sad to see fast food chains becoming so popular there, but in the rural areas people seem incredibly fit and simply don't age.
- Alright I'm kind of droning on at this point, but hopefully this serves to slightly educate people that this awful situation is at least substantially the making of the US. Again, I am NOT excusing Puerto Rican poor decision making, nor am I out to vicitimize them. There are real and easy things that the USA could do to re-invigorate the Puerto Rican economy that would bring Puerto Ricans back to Puerto Rico and help them get out of debt. I suspect that won't happen, because at this point corporations are LOVING all the new cheap "American" labor that Puerto Rico provides.
Puerto Rico is a great place worth looking into for relocation, despite the doomsday news, it's one of the nicest places I've ever been to. Particularly if you are interested in developing agriculture, there is tremendous opportunity there.
PS: @BostonBMW you are incorrect about the PR Flag. It's a historically Spanish derived flag. If you look at the flags of Puerto Rico, Cuba, and Catalonia, they all have the same design.
*** FIN ***
I was referring to the red, white, and blue color scheme along with the stars and stripes identical to the U.S. flag:
However since we're getting technical and calling each other out, lets review:
You are wrong about the Spanish origins of the current Puerto Rican Flag. It was attributed to the Puerto Rican Revolutionary Committee in New York City.
From Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Puerto_Rico
In 1952, Governor Luis Muñoz Marín and his administration adopted the Puerto Rican flag which was originally designed in 1892, and proclaimed it the official flag of Puerto Rico. The official adaptation of the flag has been interpreted by some as a ploy by Muñoz Marin to neutralize the independence movement in his own party. There were some differences between the original flag of 1892 and the one of 1952 and the meaning of the colors was officially changed. Now the white bars stood for the republican form of government, rather than representing the victory and peace that Puerto Ricans were supposed to have after gaining independence. The sky-blue of the triangle in the original flag was changed to dark blue, resembling that of the flag of the United States, to keep it distanced from its revolutionary roots. For nationalist leader Pedro Albizu Campos, having the flag represent the government was a desecration, while the independence party accused the government of "corrupting beloved symbols".
Don't trust Wikipedia? Go directly to the source and check (I have): "Luis Muñoz Marín: Puerto Rico's Democratic Revolution" Published by Editorial UPR, 2006
So lets get the facts straight: The official Puerto Rican flag is a derivative of the United States Flag.