Quote: (02-04-2012 05:39 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:
Quote: (02-04-2012 03:33 PM)scotian Wrote:
Quote: (02-02-2012 07:59 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:
Now, I know this is a topic that is sure to bring on some haters, but I don't mean to take it there. I've noticed a lot of French bashing in a couple of threads. Even talks about nuking their country.
Whoa.
I'm no fan of Parisians, but I dig Paris. And I dig French women. I like their culture generally.
That said, regardless of what you may think of the country and its people, you've got to give the French props for their social consciousness. They will unite quick to protect themselves against the forces that be, as this clip easily demonstrates. I think those of us in the Anglo world could stand to learn a thing or two from them.
I agree that the French are not passive sheeple that take shit laying down from their government or big corporations, however, it is undeniable that some major social problems exist there. With regards to immigration, France is probably the last place in the developed world that I would want my country to emulate.
An excellent movie to check out is Mathieu Kassovitz's film "La Haine", made in 1995, kind of like a French version of Menace to Society.
Also, listening to French rap (which is quite good), groups like NTM, IAM, Fonky Family and Sniper, you'll see that all is not peaceful in the land of Liberté, égalité, fraternité, especially if you have a name like Said or Mohamed!
Yeah. With respect to immigration, I wouldn't say France can compete with the Anglo world. Within Europe, London reigns supreme as the city to immigrate to and make something of yourself. Their system and culture is far more accepting and open to the world.
If I was concerned with economic mobility and had to live in Europe and just start out somewhere, I'd probably pick the UK, specifically London. As a black man, that's the place where I saw many black men doing well for themselves. Lots of brothers suited up going to work and looking real professional, just like we have in DC, NYC or Atlanta. In the Latin European countries (Spain and France), this was much less the case. I usually saw African men hanging out in parks, either unemployed or working in the informal economy (selling pirated movies, clothing, or w/e).
In the developed world, nothing beats the US (and Canada). Both countries depend on immigration, they just have their unique policies once people immigrate there.
I like both systems.
I actually like the US' immigration policy of assimilation. Extreme nutjobs on the fringes aside, there's a general view that once you come over here (legally), you are expected to be an "American." It doesn't matter where you come from, even if it's a culture that has endured thousands of years throughout many civilizations, you are now just an American. I think that's dope.
Canada promotes multiculturalism, which is also cool. I actually think Canada has done a better job of integrating people in spite of this policy that promotes that people maintain their cultural identities. They lead the developed world in the % of interracial marriages and I've never seen the degree of economic integration--across all income levels--as I have in Toronto. You don't really see that in the US. The higher you move up in the economic strata, the more people look the same. You have entire neighborhoods like that.
In Toronto, I saw evidence of a well-integrated society at every level, even in the historically wealthy neighborhoods.
I think North America is the model to emulate for those countries seeking to promote economic integration on a racial/ethnic level.
With respect to cultural/social integration, I think Brazil leads the pack. They've done an admirable job of making (and embracing) their society as a hybrid of many influences: African, European, Latin, Japanese, etc.
Hey HC,
Agree with most things you said about upward economic ability for minorities in different nations. Latin Europe can certainly learn from US, Canada, UK, etc.
However in terms of social assimilation, let me give another perspective as a US immigrant:
-I met many non-white French who proudly consider themselves as "French" instead of "French-(insert former nationality here)." They say to me that, "in France, I'm considered French."
-As an immigrant who considers himself assimilated, it pisses me off a bit that I'm considered a "dash American" instead of simply "American." I understand this BS because I don't look like the typical "All-American white or black" guy and not everyone in the world is hip to the fact that the US has naturalized immigrants.
-Asians and other minorities are still heavily stereotyped in the media and seen as "foreign" even though many have made the effort and agreed to assimilating in the US, or are born here. How often do Asians or other minorities play lead roles in American movies that portray them as a sexually desirable option? I understand but don't like the reasons.
Back to French love:
I was a Francophile before even wanting to travel to France.
Love how the French language sounds, the literature, appreciate that many thinkers of freedom and liberty originated there, etc. and of course women like Laeticia Casta (first picture of a girl I ever pinned to my wall).
I've never, ever understood the hate towards the French even when you explain the WW2 stuff to me. I think it's just people who misunderstand each other, arrogance, and ignorance on both sides.
When I was in Paris, I expected rudeness because I didn't speak the language. I only encountered 2 incidents of rudeness, both from females and I think it's more to do with them being bitches. The French helped me out in the Metro, the grocery, when I got lost in the neighborhoods, the streets when I had my shit stolen, let me stay in their place, gave me a ride, etc etc...I have many stories of French kindness and beauty (in many ways) that conflicts with what the pundits tell you on TV or the third-rate movies you watched.
As for language conflicts (re: Hooligan Harry). Many French have told me, "If we travel to (insert English-speaking country here), we speak English. We expect you to do the same when you visit ours." I agree wholeheartedly. Respect breeds respect.