What realistic steps could the EU take to protect itself from Islamic extremism?
11-14-2015, 07:35 PM
I completely disagree. Well, not on cultural decline but let's not make this discussion that wide, because that includes many other things, many of whom I am in agreement with with the general stance here on the forum.
But the polarization that is discussed here is not correct. We are not at war with Islam. I don't know where you are based, but I am sure you are not living in Western Europe in cities similar to Paris. I grew up there, in fact as one of the few white guys in a dominantly Islamic neighborhood, which you can compare to a light version of the french banlieus (ghettos sort of). The average guy in these areas is not radicalizing. In fact they are second or third generation immigrants, many of whom are in conflict with themselves with the balance between islam and western values and many of whom are choosing more for the western side. They have many problems, some of which I mentioned in the other thread on Paris, but if you think these guys are choosing the radical islamic side you are wrong, they are not. They are not as islamic as there parents were. And if you think you fight radicalism with another form of radicalism you are wrong again.
If you wish to set aside liberal values to win the war, for what society are you fighting the war then? If you do not represent this difference yourself, then why are you attacking the other party? You became them. It is also a very wrong simplification to see this as a war vs Islam. There are many factions. Iran is attacking IS, Turkey is, Lebanon is, they are all muslims which are fighting on our side. We are fighting a bunch of extremists, nothing more than that. Should we defeat them as soon as possible with a strong coordinated military effort? Sure we do. But should we start viewing every muslim as a problem, kill families of terrorists in villages, use filthy war techniques prohibited by international law, dehumanize every single refugee that comes to Europe, ... Off course not. And if the cost for that is a couple hundred deaths per year in our countries, so be it. We will have those in any case.
But the polarization that is discussed here is not correct. We are not at war with Islam. I don't know where you are based, but I am sure you are not living in Western Europe in cities similar to Paris. I grew up there, in fact as one of the few white guys in a dominantly Islamic neighborhood, which you can compare to a light version of the french banlieus (ghettos sort of). The average guy in these areas is not radicalizing. In fact they are second or third generation immigrants, many of whom are in conflict with themselves with the balance between islam and western values and many of whom are choosing more for the western side. They have many problems, some of which I mentioned in the other thread on Paris, but if you think these guys are choosing the radical islamic side you are wrong, they are not. They are not as islamic as there parents were. And if you think you fight radicalism with another form of radicalism you are wrong again.
If you wish to set aside liberal values to win the war, for what society are you fighting the war then? If you do not represent this difference yourself, then why are you attacking the other party? You became them. It is also a very wrong simplification to see this as a war vs Islam. There are many factions. Iran is attacking IS, Turkey is, Lebanon is, they are all muslims which are fighting on our side. We are fighting a bunch of extremists, nothing more than that. Should we defeat them as soon as possible with a strong coordinated military effort? Sure we do. But should we start viewing every muslim as a problem, kill families of terrorists in villages, use filthy war techniques prohibited by international law, dehumanize every single refugee that comes to Europe, ... Off course not. And if the cost for that is a couple hundred deaths per year in our countries, so be it. We will have those in any case.