I'd really appreciate some help with this, i've been working on my game and while I can get dates I haven't done anything sexual with a girl and the most I've seen is a pair of tits and a few random tinder girls taking sexy pictures of themselves. With that being said I'm tired of being a fucking virgin and I figure if I'm a virgin at 20 I must be doing something wrong.

I can approach a girl, get a number and occasionally get a date. I'm pretty good at getting a number and I used to be really good at getting a date but now I can only get the number. This is frustrating, I figured if I posted here I could get some help with my game.

Here's a string of texts that led to a date but no second. I met her on the train

Me: Hey, it's the1element. It was nice to meet you yesterday evening. Let's meet up next saturday.
Her: Yea, sure
Her: so what are your plans for saturday?
Me: Saturday afternoon at poutineville restaurant. As friends though. (I don't even know why I put as friends...)
Her: Okay
Me: Around 1-2, do u know where it is?
Me: I need to cancel i feel terrible. Sunday we can though
Her: ok text me tomorrow.
her: hey sorry i cant make it today my job just call me and have to go to work
me: yea i moved into my new place today so it wouldnt of worked and the weather was kinda crummy. I take it your back in xxx now?
Her:yea i am back in xxx. where did you move?
me:moved to a place off xx street. still in Mtl! youback in mtl next weekend?
her thats nice! yes probably
me:poutinevville at 3 tomorrow. i shuld be free
her: I am working tomorrow.
me: alright, you were a pretty cool person when i met you but after 2 weeks the interest has dissipated.
her: youre the one that cancelled the first time and you text me the night before at like midnight to know if i am free the next day...and you told me you just wanted to be friends when i wasnt thinking that way.

side note: I wasn't really sexual at all when we first me, in fact the conversation was REALLY boring and I was surprised to get her number. Any idea what made her want to not be friends, the only thing i can think of she was just attracted to me.

me: alright what are you trying to say?
her: i wasnt trying to say anything
me: next week at poutineville 3:00
her: which day
me saturday
her: perfect.

We eneded up meeting but I didnt even fucking kiss her and the only time I touched her was when we parted ways. I think I should of tried to be more physical and made the date at a bar at night instead of a restaurant in broad day with my place thirty minutes away. She said she had a good time and I texted for a second date which she agreed to but then she flaked and I never heard from here again. I think I should of escalated on the first date more and set up better logistics.


The closest I got to losing my virginity was with a really hot ukraine girl that i met on tinder. She's probably a 7 or an 8 and this story is embarrassing but i need help...

Me "You look like a hell of a lot of fun, the question is..are you down for fun?"
Her "Depends what kind of fun"
Me "Well sometimes I go salsa dancing with random girls I meet and sometimes I lick whipped cream off them."
Her "Ooo, that sounds fun."
Me "Yep, it is. I only lick whipped cream off them if the night was good"
Her "I'm sure you do"
Me "Yea, I start with the neck and work my way down."
Her "Ooo, cool"

This is kind of where the conversation derailed

Me "Yea, what do you do for fun? (Non sexual)"
Me "This is where I realize I suck at messaging women on Tinder"
Her "I dance around naked and cook pancakes to use as frisbees"

I ended up getting her number and we texted a bit, i asked what she was doing and said at home with my t.v and chips which I took as a sign to invite myself to her place. I said

Me: alright well fuck it, im kinda hesitant to say this because i dont really know you. chilling and watching t.v sounds fun
Her: alright kido ur loss
herocial butterfly, likes adventure...yea right.
me:I dont think you understood my text
me: im saying im up for adventure
her:then why would you ever say watchin tv at home sounds fun
me: you should know by now i suck at texting. I basically said i'd like to chill at ur place. clubbin is fun but i need a break from it today. There is one thing I can think of that would be fun. Exploring an abandoned factory. it has a roof where you can see the entire city.


I ended up getting her to go explore the abandoned factory and at one point she said she'd like to have sex at one. Which I never took as a clue. We got to the roof kissed and then she suggested we go back the next day and sleep on the roof. The next day we didn't sleep on the roof because her parents were worried but we chilled there most of the day and at one point she took her tits out and sat on me while i laid down. nothing happened, she just grinded. I'm guessing she wanted to bang but i was too much of a pussy?

This is even embarrassing to write about...

Three weeks ago I got a number from a really cute polish chick but shes WAYY older than me. I'm 20 and she's 33. Unfortunately I've moved so I didn't get to go on a date with her but we've been texting back and forth... I've tried to do some flirty texts with her but she hasn't really reciprocated, she still texts me back but not in the same flirty tone. Just today she told me I look like harry potter and I told her she reminded me of the actress Alexis Bledel. She responded back saying she is no where near that beautiful and I responded with

Me:u don't see it? wouldnt say ur far off.
Her: nice! made my day. Shes my new idol now
me: occasionally I'm nice.
her: Lol..really?
her: you seemed nice before.

She lives in Montreal and i live in the country side of Ontario now so I can't really meet her until may. On top of that I'm having a really hard time gaming ontario girls. They aren't receptive too my game like in Montreal idk why but maybe someone could offer some advice?

tl;dr I'm still a virgin despite knowing a lot of theory about game. I've gone on a lot of dates but never escalated because i'm really worried about kissing. I'm afraid I'll mess up...I don't want to be a virgin no more..

Thanks guys, and I've read a lot of threads on this forum. I know these posts are sometimes considered trolls but I assure you I am not a troll and I genuinely would like some advice.

Way too much texting and over analyzing each message.

Quote: (03-09-2015 12:28 AM)tallandblonde Wrote:  

Way too much texting and over analyzing each message.

care to elaborate?

Quote: (03-09-2015 12:31 AM)the1element Wrote:  

Quote: (03-09-2015 12:28 AM)tallandblonde Wrote:  

Way too much texting and over analyzing each message.

care to elaborate?

Cut the amount of words you text her in half.
Do not explain the logic/reasoning behind what you're texting to her.
For example when you texted "alright well fuck it, im kinda hesitant to say this because i dont really know you. chilling and watching t.v sounds fun"

Way too much, just way too much. If you knew she was bored at home the invite her over and tell her to bring wine or you say you'll be over in 30 minutes and tell her to have the whipped cream and strawberries ready.

You should be reading some sort of game guide for beginners.
Bang
Day Bang
Once you get a girl out with you, it should be little kino hear and there to get her used to touching you. Fake punches to the stomach have always worked for me and my game style.
You can try to move the hair behind her ear when you are sitting beside her. If she recoils when you move your hand near her then you need to make her more comfortable.


Also it doesn't matter how long you've been studying game, it's all about speed of implementation.
How fast can you start acting on the information your reading and what if any changes you need to make for yourself.

Is chateau heartsie also good material? I feel like I have to unlearn everything now,

It is good material but you may not understand it because you have no experience for certain situations he talks about
I find his material is great for intermediate skill levels looking to pull higher quality pussy.

Okay, so I should stick to simple like bang and day bang. Any other suggestions? I'm soo done with being a virgin.

It's obvious that you've read CH and are trying to use specific game techniques. Just stop.

Read Bang, then read it again and take notes, then follow the book to a T and get laid.

ESPECIALLY Bang's texting section.

Alright, will do

Also, you're 20. A young virgin mind might be suffering from information overload. So until your first bang, don't read game blogs. Don't even think about it. Bang will be your guide until you get laid the first time. After that, then you can get back on blogs and tweak your game. But right now you are laying the foundation, and Bang should be that foundation.

If you're having specific issues, post them here instead of trying to solve it yourself.

Appreciate the help, I'm going to follow the advice. I used to follow a lot of game advice from reddit but it never got me anywhere so I went on my own and still nothing. Glad to have this forum for advice like yours.

At 20 it's no big deal mate. Don't sweat it, just go out and talk to girls. 95% in person, 5% online and text.

Quote: (03-09-2015 12:16 AM)the1element Wrote:  

\ntl;dr I'm still a virgin despite knowing a lot of theory about game. I've gone on a lot of dates but never escalated because i'm really worried about kissing.

Remember, if a girl goes out on a date with you
- she likes you
- she likes you in a sexual way.
- she likes you in a romantic way

She won't articulate it in that way, but she doesn't go out in public with guys that she doesn't want to be seen with.

So even though she's demonstrated that you are attractive but submitting to you, SHE'S NOT SURE ABOUT YOU...YET.

So the date is basically your audition.

When you're a player, it's HER audition.

You aren't up to that level where you need to think about game, you need to get a handle on basic romantic relationships FIRST.

So on your next date, make sure you kiss her at the end of the night.

She's expecting it, but she's not going to sit there, eyes closed, and her lips puckered up.

Build up to the kiss
- plan your activity
- make sure during the activity you have a chance to talk
- spend a lot of time flirting - which basically means talking shit with a girl, just not as much shit as you might talk with your boys.
- PUT YOUR HANDS ON HER. Thumb Wrestle, play who's got the biggest hands, whatever. Touch the inside of her wrist. Put your shin on her calf muscle when she stands in front of you.

If you can't touch a girl, you certainly can't talk to her.

Pro tip #2 - If you can play with a girl's hands while you talk to her and keep a straight face, you're sending a very powerful message.


Pro tip #3 - you're going to like how she feels and how she smells. So being around her will be pleasant.

So

GOING IN FOR THE KI..SS
- at the end of the date - hug close, embrace, pull back, look into the eyes, to the lips, back to the eyes, lean in for the kiss.

Kiss her on the lips, and as you kiss her, lick your own lips, like the tip of your tongue goes SLIGHTLY out of your mouth and SLIGHTLY into *her* mouth. It has to be WET, but not SLOPPY.

Think of your tongue like a zipper, and zip it across.

If she likes it, she'll kiss back, and she'll do the same.

It's very Hollywood, but you have to start somewhere. And that's a good place to start.

In terms of the bang.
If the girl is 18, you can let it simmer for another date.

But if she kisses you back.
Then it's a little more of your tongue penetrating her mouth and a little more moisture.
Then you'll want to kiss her cheek, her neck (never the forehead), and the collar bone, so on and so forth.

Just kiss her everywhere, and usually by then NATURE kicks in. Before you know it, you're both naked and lying in a heap. Now if both of your two are young, it might just happen quickly. But if you sense she's pulling back, beat her to the punch. Then wait a second, re-engage. 2 steps forward, 1 step back.

Remember, no girl goes out with you that doesn't want to kiss you.
She can easily get a movie or a dinner on her own. And would prefer to do that by herself than be with a dork.

WIA

I was in a similar situation when I was a virgin so I can relate.

You're trying to do WAY too much through texts which is really not helping your situation. Also, being a virgin gives you a sense of inherent insecurity which can only be overcome by actually losing it. It makes you subconsciously unsure of your own self when the opportunities do come up, and in some cases the girls can sense that too. And that's exactly what happened in the case of the Ukrainian chick - there was every signal from her side, a girl can't make herself clearer than that but you failed to capitalize on that because your inherent self doubt because of being a virgin. But don't worry about it, it's part of the game and we have all been through that and you will surely overcome it. You're doing a great job with the pickups but faltering at the next stage - this was so like myself a few years ago. I can see that you're going to be a great player once you develop the sexual confidence that one has to have.

As has been said multiple times over the forum, keep the texts transactional(read the texting guide by Roosh) avoid flirting, sexting or meaningless banter. Your number one goal at this point is to get the girl to meet you so you can escalate and have sex. And remember, for pretty much all guys sex really sucks the first time and it takes 4-5 tries to get things right so just be relaxed about the whole situation. Find a girl who passes your boner test and is willing to be patient, maybe a girl who is low maintenance or a virgin herself with whom you can practice and perfect your skills. You will see a difference of day and night a few months after losing your virginity. Good luck and bang on!

Another book that really helped me is Rules of the Game by Neal Strauss. In that book, he goes into detail on many different aspects of game; posture, voice, grooming, style, conversational skills, comfort-building routines, date ideas, etc, etc

Oh yes, I agree with haywire, the first time I had sex I was really disappointed with the experience.

You guys are really amping me up, I wish I didn't move from Montreal to this small town. Nothing really goes on here until Friday, I can't wait.

Quote: (03-09-2015 02:09 AM)haywire Wrote:  

I was in a similar situation when I was a virgin so I can relate.

You're trying to do WAY too much through texts which is really not helping your situation. Also, being a virgin gives you a sense of inherent insecurity which can only be overcome by actually losing it. It makes you subconsciously unsure of your own self when the opportunities do come up, and in some cases the girls can sense that too. And that's exactly what happened in the case of the Ukrainian chick - there was every signal from her side, a girl can't make herself clearer than that but you failed to capitalize on that because your inherent self doubt because of being a virgin. But don't worry about it, it's part of the game and we have all been through that and you will surely overcome it. You're doing a great job with the pickups but faltering at the next stage - this was so like myself a few years ago. I can see that you're going to be a great player once you develop the sexual confidence that one has to have.

As has been said multiple times over the forum, keep the texts transactional(read the texting guide by Roosh) avoid flirting, sexting or meaningless banter. Your number one goal at this point is to get the girl to meet you so you can escalate and have sex. And remember, for pretty much all guys sex really sucks the first time and it takes 4-5 tries to get things right so just be relaxed about the whole situation. Find a girl who passes your boner test and is willing to be patient, maybe a girl who is low maintenance or a virgin herself with whom you can practice and perfect your skills. You will see a difference of day and night a few months after losing your virginity. Good luck and bang on!

I agree - you seem attractive enough and get some interest going, but ruin everything.

And why the fuck did you cancel all those dates again and again? Your text Game is terrible. You should stay away from it for now as much as possible. Keep it short and then go on a date.

Also you denigrate yourself constantly texting women how terrible you are at texting and other such things. That Ukrainian girl did a sexual teasing text and you hit her in the head with a boring watching TV brick text.

Also you have to keep in mind that your virginity will hover above your head like a mountain and you will likely fuck up due to being nervous - that is understandable.

My take is you might be better served approaching girls during the day or at night and get it over with. Literally any DTF girl will do - take a land-whale if she passes your boner test - work your way up to models. There is no shame to banging below your level.

You're afraid of sex right? Given the way the girl was giving you a green light and you did nothing.

If so you'll need to address this fear and its reasons. If not, you need to understand that it is your job as the man to take action. YOU have to kiss her, caress her, take her clothes off, put a condom on (which you WILL be carrying at all times) and stick it in.

Let's be clear, you do not know the game yet at all. It is not some theory, it is about actual actions.

Quote: (03-09-2015 12:16 AM)the1element Wrote:  

The closest I got to losing my virginity was with a really hot ukraine girl that i met on tinder. She's probably a 7 or an 8 and this story is embarrassing but i need help...

Me "You look like a hell of a lot of fun, the question is..are you down for fun?"
Her "Depends what kind of fun"
Me "Well sometimes I go salsa dancing with random girls I meet and sometimes I lick whipped cream off them."
Her "Ooo, that sounds fun."
Me "Yep, it is. I only lick whipped cream off them if the night was good"
Her "I'm sure you do"
Me "Yea, I start with the neck and work my way down."
Her "Ooo, cool"

this was enough, i think you should've change topic at that moment or at least ask her is she up for it...

and i think you should be more agressive with girls, it seems here you're too cautious not to lose girl when you talk to them... and about the kiss, don't wait for perfect moment, just kiss them whenever you want, there is no perfect moment (it will be hard to do that until you do it several times)

Yeah, your text game is quite sexually aggressive but then in person you aren't escalating.

This lack of congruency is killing you more than anything else i think.

Quote: (03-09-2015 08:25 AM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  

Yeah, your text game is quite sexually aggressive but then in person you aren't escalating.

This lack of congruency is killing you more than anything else i think.

Did you copy some of the text messages from Heartiste? They are good, but then you shift and you start texting contrary stuff which kills the attraction.

Most guys should limit their text Game to a minimum when meeting girls online. The reason for this is that with each message you have a greater chance of saying something that lets her disqualify you. You are after all just a face among many on her dating apps.

There are some guys out there who can do advanced level text Game that can even make her horny and excited over days and weeks, but that's not something a virgin should attempt. Even most advanced guys are not that good at expert texting or have the patience to text for weeks with one girl and build the momentum while never botching a lead.

If you do a lot of online Game, then read some books on that too - there are a couple of good ones out there already.

Any suggestions? Right now because of logistics I'm forced to do online game.

How are you "forced" to do online game?

I live in the middle of no where with my dad and im without a car. Town is a thirty minute drive and the town is dead until Thursday-Sunday. Ontop of that my dad works shiftwork. I'm only here to save money and then travel Canada.

Can't you take a train to the nearest big town to you ?

I live on the outskirts of a big city and I occasi commute into the centre and spend the entire day daygaming .