From what I have seen on this board, American girls are awfully similar to WEST European women. American women can't cook? So can't W-European, American girls are on their blackberry all day? So are W-European women. I really don't think American women are the only one from my POV. I think it's the entire Western mentality that is the problem here. Yes, American girls walk on flip flops, so do W European girls, I see them daily. Yes, they don't have manners, What happens when you tell an American girl to vacuum clean the house or do the dishes? She will laugh in your face and tell you that she is tired of work (while she fucks other men at work) and to do it yourself, W European girls will do the exact same.

I don't know, but what you guys have been writing on here about American girls also apply to Western European women.

To be clear, when we are talking about "Western European girls" are we talking about Spanish girls? (or French/Italian?)

If so, I have to disagree with you on:

"American women can't cook? So can't W-European"

I had girls cook for me all summer in Spain. It was actually pretty mindblowingly grindy stuff.

"American girls are on their blackberry all day? So are W-European women."

Heavily disagree here. Spanish girls are never on their cell phones.

I wrote about it here:

American Girl Cell Phone/Text Message Hell hole http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-5077.html

"Yes, American girls walk on flip flops, so do W European girls, I see them daily."

It's not Latvia, but I saw mostly high-heels at night.

Zero flip-flops. Even at the beach at night.

The biggest difference between American girls and Western European girls?

Obesity.

I'll relate my experience. After spending some time in several countries across Western Europe, returning to North America was a painful shock. I feel bad for the guys here and empathize with the pain average men in North America feel.

Some of my observations while in Western Europe:

- Lack of obesity. Almost no fat people here; every young woman is slim.
- People are more fashion-conscious, women put effort into their appearance.
- Most guys are skinny, rare to see a jacked muscular jock-type guy.
- Guys date slightly up - lots of average guys with slim pretty girls.
- Women are feminine, speak in soft, high-pitched voices.

After returning from Europe, I had a whole new perspective on North America. I noticed:

- Obesity epidemic. Fat people everywhere; even a lot of young college-aged girls are fat.
- People dress sloppy, women don't invest in their appearance, flip flops everywhere.
- Fewer skinny guys and lots of muscular jocks.
- Guys date slightly down - lots of decent guys with chubby chicks.
- Women are masculine, speak in a flat husky monotone.

So what effect does this have on the dating pool?

In North America -

More obesity means more fat chicks means more guys chasing after a smaller pool of skinny girls. The skinny girls have inflated egos from all the attention they're getting. Guys realize they have to work harder to get average girls, so they hit the gym, get jacked. Average guys have to settle for chubby chicks or stay forever alone. Everybody loses.

In Europe -

Everybody's skinny. The pool of attractive bangable girls is huge. Skinny girls don't have inflated egos because they get no more attention than any other girl - everybody's skinny! Girls are more down to earth and level-headed. Guys find girls to date at their level, don't feel the need to hit the gym to get jacked. Everybody wins.

Often times we'll have arguments here between a bunch of guys. A guy from the US will rant that women suck, that they're fat, that hot girls are unapproachable bitches, that even average girls have huge expectations and bitch shields. Then a guy from Sweden will go WTF? women are awesome, they're approachable and easy and your game sucks.

Understand that the guy in the US is living an entirely different reality from the guy in Europe. Maybe it's not your game but your environment.

When 95% of guys are chasing after 60% of (non-fat) girls as in America, it makes a difference from a dating pool in which 95% are chasing 90% of (non-fat) girls as in Europe.

Obesity is the big killer.

Quote: (09-18-2011 01:42 AM)Mace Wrote:  

I'll relate my experience. After spending some time in several countries across Western Europe, returning to North America was a painful shock. I feel bad for the guys here and empathize with the pain average men in North America feel.

Some of my observations while in Western Europe:

- Lack of obesity. Almost no fat people here; every young woman is slim.
- People are more fashion-conscious, women put effort into their appearance.
- Most guys are skinny, rare to see a jacked muscular jock-type guy.
- Guys date slightly up - lots of average guys with slim pretty girls.
- Women are feminine, speak in soft, high-pitched voices.

After returning from Europe, I had a whole new perspective on North America. I noticed:

- Obesity epidemic. Fat people everywhere; even a lot of young college-aged girls are fat.
- People dress sloppy, women don't invest in their appearance, flip flops everywhere.
- Fewer skinny guys and lots of muscular jocks.
- Guys date slightly down - lots of decent guys with chubby chicks.
- Women are masculine, speak in a flat husky monotone.

So what effect does this have on the dating pool?

In North America -

More obesity means more fat chicks means more guys chasing after a smaller pool of skinny girls. The skinny girls have inflated egos from all the attention they're getting. Guys realize they have to work harder to get average girls, so they hit the gym, get jacked. Average guys have to settle for chubby chicks or stay forever alone. Everybody loses.

In Europe -

Everybody's skinny. The pool of attractive bangable girls is huge. Skinny girls don't have inflated egos because they get no more attention than any other girl - everybody's skinny! Girls are more down to earth and level-headed. Guys find girls to date at their level, don't feel the need to hit the gym to get jacked. Everybody wins.

Often times we'll have arguments here between a bunch of guys. A guy from the US will rant that women suck, that they're fat, that hot girls are unapproachable bitches, that even average girls have huge expectations and bitch shields. Then a guy from Sweden will go WTF? women are awesome, they're approachable and easy and your game sucks.

Understand that the guy in the US is living an entirely different reality from the guy in Europe. Maybe it's not your game but your environment.

When 95% of guys are chasing after 60% of (non-fat) girls as in America, it makes a difference from a dating pool in which 95% are chasing 90% of (non-fat) girls as in Europe.

Obesity is the big killer.

The obesity epidemic has certainly spread to Germany and Britain. Most guys in these countries date down. We already had disagreement on this forum whether it has hit Spain, Portugal and Italy, too (in my opinion, it has, others have disagreed).

About slender guys: Many WE women actually prefer them to more muscular guys. In WE it's not easy to find a slim women who would take Vin Diesel instead of Orlando Bloom (considering both face and body).

But this is also due to the fact that in countries like Germany and Great Britain whether a woman ist slender or fat largely depends on her own/her parents' social status. The more educated she is, the better is her nutrition, the less likely she's fat. And the more educated she is the less likely she prefers Jersey Shore type guys. You see the coincidence playing into the cards of leaner men?

Coming to guys from North-Western Europe (Swe, Ger, Ned, Nor etc.) of course they have the biggest advantage any man could have: height.

I've read in numerous trip reports that Swedish men have zero game. Probably because feminism has a greater hold there.

UK is 85% of America. The girl I'm dating went to the country side to visit a few times, said everyone was fat. London is better due to all the foreigners coming through but there's still a lot of fat chicks who are usually British.

The only country comparable to America in Europe are of course Britain/Ireland where there are quite high index of fat/obese people (just not as high as america) and women dont know how to dress. Should I start about how hard is to find a goodlooking girl there? The few goodlooking women in London are all foreigners.

Quote: (09-18-2011 05:11 AM)Mighty Mouse Wrote:  

Quote: (09-18-2011 01:42 AM)Mace Wrote:  

I'll relate my experience. After spending some time in several countries across Western Europe, returning to North America was a painful shock. I feel bad for the guys here and empathize with the pain average men in North America feel.

Some of my observations while in Western Europe:

- Lack of obesity. Almost no fat people here; every young woman is slim.
- People are more fashion-conscious, women put effort into their appearance.
- Most guys are skinny, rare to see a jacked muscular jock-type guy.
- Guys date slightly up - lots of average guys with slim pretty girls.
- Women are feminine, speak in soft, high-pitched voices.

After returning from Europe, I had a whole new perspective on North America. I noticed:

- Obesity epidemic. Fat people everywhere; even a lot of young college-aged girls are fat.
- People dress sloppy, women don't invest in their appearance, flip flops everywhere.
- Fewer skinny guys and lots of muscular jocks.
- Guys date slightly down - lots of decent guys with chubby chicks.
- Women are masculine, speak in a flat husky monotone.

So what effect does this have on the dating pool?

In North America -

More obesity means more fat chicks means more guys chasing after a smaller pool of skinny girls. The skinny girls have inflated egos from all the attention they're getting. Guys realize they have to work harder to get average girls, so they hit the gym, get jacked. Average guys have to settle for chubby chicks or stay forever alone. Everybody loses.

In Europe -

Everybody's skinny. The pool of attractive bangable girls is huge. Skinny girls don't have inflated egos because they get no more attention than any other girl - everybody's skinny! Girls are more down to earth and level-headed. Guys find girls to date at their level, don't feel the need to hit the gym to get jacked. Everybody wins.

Often times we'll have arguments here between a bunch of guys. A guy from the US will rant that women suck, that they're fat, that hot girls are unapproachable bitches, that even average girls have huge expectations and bitch shields. Then a guy from Sweden will go WTF? women are awesome, they're approachable and easy and your game sucks.

Understand that the guy in the US is living an entirely different reality from the guy in Europe. Maybe it's not your game but your environment.

When 95% of guys are chasing after 60% of (non-fat) girls as in America, it makes a difference from a dating pool in which 95% are chasing 90% of (non-fat) girls as in Europe.

Obesity is the big killer.

The obesity epidemic has certainly spread to Germany and Britain. Most guys in these countries date down. We already had disagreement on this forum whether it has hit Spain, Portugal and Italy, too (in my opinion, it has, others have disagreed).

About slender guys: Many WE women actually prefer them to more muscular guys. In WE it's not easy to find a slim women who would take Vin Diesel instead of Orlando Bloom (considering both face and body).

But this is also due to the fact that in countries like Germany and Great Britain whether a woman ist slender or fat largely depends on her own/her parents' social status. The more educated she is, the better is her nutrition, the less likely she's fat. And the more educated she is the less likely she prefers Jersey Shore type guys. You see the coincidence playing into the cards of leaner men?

Coming to guys from North-Western Europe (Swe, Ger, Ned, Nor etc.) of course they have the biggest advantage any man could have: height.

You really cannot compare the level of fatness in Britain(24,5% obese) and Germany (13,3% obese). Germany might have more overweight people than most of other countries in western europe , yet the % of truly obese or straight up fat people is even under the european average (15.5%). Only Ireland come close to UK with 23% of obessity , which was obvious to expect considering how similar those cultures are , and they belongging to the anglosphere culture world.

(I cannot post the link cause I have under 10 post, but I can Pm it to anybody who wants the studies.)

Even the fattest europeans (UK) only have 24.5 % rate of obesity, nearly 10% behind americans with 34%. 3 out of 4 american adutls (75%) are either overweight or obese. Im sure It has to do with anglospheric culture considering US, UK, Ireland, Australia; NZ and Canada all have considerably bigger percentages of fat people than continental european countries. In fact some of the slimmest countries in europe are in western europe (switzerland,italy, norway, sweden, netherlands, france, denmark). all between 8,1 and 11,4% of obesity, compared to anglosphere nations which are all around 23%-25% with the exception of America which is slowly reaching the 35% mark lol.

Denmark - 11.4%
France - 11.2%
Netherlands - 11.1%
Sweden - 10.2%
Norway - 10%
Italy - 9.9%
Switzerland - 8.1%

In fact, breaking the myths most Eastern european nations are indeed fater than western european nations (excluding uk/Ireland which I often lump with anglospheric nation rather than europe).

Lithuania - 20%
Hungary - 19.7%
Greece - 18.1%
Estonia - 18%
Czech Rep. - 17.1%
Latvia - 16.9%
Slovakia - 16.9%
Slovenia - 16.9%

But again In the east european case could be a little misleading considering there is a higher gap between fat male/fat female than in western europe, with this higher difference resulting in even a higher poll of fat males vs fat females. In america I recall reading the opposite, considerably more fat females vs fat males, nonetheless even the slimmest gender in the US is much fatter than the fatter gender in any continental european/scandinavian country.

Again, I've never considered the British and Irish to be genuine/proper europeans, but they are rather a foreign group in many ways compared with more genuine european groups. I rather mix them up with North americans, Australians, NZ.

I'm not really interested in obesity rates in the general population - these numbers are being inflated by middle-aged manatees and walruses. A lot of women bloat after marriage (esp. Indian/Arab/Mediterranean/Russian bakushka ladies) but they're off the market.

What's the "overweight" rate amongst 18-29 year old single females by country?

Quote: (09-18-2011 11:42 AM)Clockwork_Orange Wrote:  

In fact, breaking the myths most Eastern european nations are indeed fater than western european nations (excluding uk/Ireland which I often lump with anglospheric nation rather than europe).

Guys indeed are fatter in EE, but unless you're gay, who cares?

Quote: (09-18-2011 04:53 PM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

Quote: (09-18-2011 11:42 AM)Clockwork_Orange Wrote:  

In fact, breaking the myths most Eastern european nations are indeed fater than western european nations (excluding uk/Ireland which I often lump with anglospheric nation rather than europe).

Guys indeed are fatter in EE, but unless you're gay, who cares?

Well the point was, If guys are fater than girls that means a 17 % average of an EE country could be the results of men being in average 20% fat and ee women being 14% fat which means ee women are more similar to western euro % of obessity than the final figures would suggest.

Of course as long as there is no clear definition that everybody shares what exactly is meant by the terms "obese", "fat", "overweight", or "chubby", there will be disagreement.

If only 13 percent of Germans are "obese", according to statistics, well, this doesn't solve the problem as long as "chubby" or "just a little bit overweight" chicks aren't counted as "obese".

Anyway, the only thing that interests me is that 60 percent of all German chicks in the 20-30 years range are too fat for me personally. Just my personal opinion, based on my ideal of a slender woman.

Quote: (09-18-2011 05:53 PM)Mighty Mouse Wrote:  

Of course as long as there is no clear definition that everybody shares what exactly is meant by the terms "obese", "fat", "overweight", or "chubby", there will be disagreement.

If only 13 percent of Germans are "obese", according to statistics, well, this doesn't solve the problem as long as "chubby" or "just a little bit overweight" chicks aren't counted as "obese".

Anyway, the only thing that interests me is that 60 percent of all German chicks in the 20-30 years range are too fat for me personally. Just my personal opinion, based on my ideal of a slender woman.

Have you ever been to germany?
If you have such standards then 80-90% of American and 75% of British/Irish/Canadian/Australian/NZ women are too fat for your tastes.

Well the point I was trying to make that was WE women (excluding spain/portugal) are no different when it comes to behavior to American girls. The only difference might be that Am girls may be more fatter because in Europe they are all active due to public transport options etc.

Quote: (09-19-2011 01:10 AM)Geronimo Wrote:  

Well the point I was trying to make that was WE women (excluding spain/portugal) are no different when it comes to behavior to American girls. The only difference might be that Am girls may be more fatter because in Europe they are all active due to public transport options etc.

For me the ROI was much lower in WE women compared to American girls. I talked to enough of them in London to not travel to Greece, Spain, France, ect. Some were just downright arrogant. Like mycleverid stated, listening to how fucked up America is and how to fix it gets old. Especially from a 20 y.o.

Quote: (09-18-2011 08:48 PM)Clockwork_Orange Wrote:  

Quote: (09-18-2011 05:53 PM)Mighty Mouse Wrote:  

Of course as long as there is no clear definition that everybody shares what exactly is meant by the terms "obese", "fat", "overweight", or "chubby", there will be disagreement.

If only 13 percent of Germans are "obese", according to statistics, well, this doesn't solve the problem as long as "chubby" or "just a little bit overweight" chicks aren't counted as "obese".

Anyway, the only thing that interests me is that 60 percent of all German chicks in the 20-30 years range are too fat for me personally. Just my personal opinion, based on my ideal of a slender woman.

Have you ever been to germany?

That's where I'm from.

Quote: (09-18-2011 05:50 AM)P Dog Wrote:  

I've read in numerous trip reports that Swedish men have zero game. Probably because feminism has a greater hold there.

This seems to be more of meme on the board, assumed to be the truth just because it has been repeated a bunch of times and not because there's some credible evidence to it.

From my viewpoint I will agree that American and Italian men are far more likely to approach and chat up with fine talent. However they are also far more likely to adopt some chivalrous or cheesy tone that might have worked in a french court 300 years ago but hasn't gotten anyone laid unless it was by accident in the modern world. You don't see this behaviour anywhere near as prevalent in the nordic countries. Looking at international surveys of the most number of sexual partners for men the average tend to be higher in northern Europe.

Thus we should not confuse general socializing with game.

Quote: (09-19-2011 03:24 AM)Aliblahba Wrote:  

Quote: (09-19-2011 01:10 AM)Geronimo Wrote:  

Well the point I was trying to make that was WE women (excluding spain/portugal) are no different when it comes to behavior to American girls. The only difference might be that Am girls may be more fatter because in Europe they are all active due to public transport options etc.

For me the ROI was much lower in WE women compared to American girls. I talked to enough of them in London to not travel to Greece, Spain, France, ect. Some were just downright arrogant. Like mycleverid stated, listening to how fucked up America is and how to fix it gets old. Especially from a 20 y.o.

Seems to be a typical Western (continental) European problem. People go out and end up talking about pseudointellectual shit the whole evening because they can't relax and just have fun for an evening.

I guess not knowing how to "small talk" and flirt makes a lot of people tense and nervous.
Happens a lot in Germany.

interesting points all
my experiences are broadly similar to that posted by Clockwork_Orange
although there's plenty of fatties in Ire/UK, there's also plenty who are not fat, but so many are shapeless and/or curveless, they don't tend to have an attractive body shape and those with big racks are almost always overweight, whilst in much of the rest of Europe it's not unusual to see attractive slim and curvy women in their 20s/30s (even some in 40s) possessing of impressive racks but who have kept their shape through healthy diets, active lifestyle and not downing pints of stella every weekend

Quote: (09-19-2011 01:10 AM)Geronimo Wrote:  

Well the point I was trying to make that was WE women (excluding spain/portugal) are no different when it comes to behavior to American girls. The only difference might be that Am girls may be more fatter because in Europe they are all active due to public transport options etc.

They are pretty different in behavior. According to my own experiences..


I would rather divide Northern and Western european countries in different blocks,

1) Northern Germanic-Scandinavian Culture: Sweden, Norway, Denmark,Netherlands,North-germany. They are usually the most liberal, permisive, and progressive societies with few to none attachment to religion and traditionalism

General attitude/behavior of the people: Quite enthusiastic people, they are very interested to get to know more and talk to people even when they are completly foreginer to them and unknown, but it seems to reach a more superficial level, having very good and intime friends seem to be really a hard work, If meeting people were a coconut then It would have the inverse density of the mediterranean or southern european ones, where getting to know the people and getting their real interest is the hard thing, but once u get it joining in their close circle seems much easier than in northern germanic/scandinavians societies where getting to know new people is much easier but to penetrate the intime friends wall is harder.

2)Central european-Germanic culture: Austria, German-Switzerland, Southern Germany.
This culture is more traditionalism and likely to be more conservative than their northern germanic cousins, they seem to have less permisive and more strict policies, religious beliefs and progresiveness are in between.

General attitude/behavior of the people: They seem to be in some ways more enthousiastic than Northern atlantic culture, but at the same time can appear colder and uninterested. People are more interested to get to known/talk to unknown people than in mediterranean culture and even the Northern Atlantic one, but due to the typical coldness they might appear less friendly and not as interested as the northern germanic-scandinavian culture does. The potential of enthousiasm is there but masked on the people's cold behavior.

3)Northern Atlantic culture: Uk/Ireland, Northern France, Belgium
Not a bigger attachment to traditionalism, not as conservative as central european culture but more conservative than northern germanic-scandinavian one, religiousity attachment is similar to central european countries. Policies more permisive than central european but not as much as scandinavian or northern germanic ones.

General attitude/behavior of the people: polite but dull. People can talk to other just for mere formality and appear correct but this group lack of particular enthusiastic vibes.

4)Mediterranean Culture: Spain, Italy, Southern france, greece.
The most traditionalist of all, highly attachment to religion and family (for european standards), not as progressive as other regions.

General attitude/behavior of the people: very loud, expressive and warm but It remains more with the people they already know (close friends and family) There is definitely not so much interest to act open to people they do not know. In the opposite with the northern germanic/scandinavian culture, here is easier to penetrate the intime friend barieer once u get to know people, which is the hardest part here.

I would say the people under the northern atlantic culture are the closer in behavior to american, specially Brits/Irish, because belgians and northern germans seem more dull/off and have less agressive/stressed reactions compared to brits/americans

Quote: (09-18-2011 11:28 AM)Clockwork_Orange Wrote:  

The only country comparable to America in Europe are of course Britain/Ireland where there are quite high index of fat/obese people (just not as high as america) and women dont know how to dress. Should I start about how hard is to find a goodlooking girl there? The few goodlooking women in London are all foreigners.

Bullshit!

Quote: (09-18-2011 05:53 PM)Mighty Mouse Wrote:  

Of course as long as there is no clear definition that everybody shares what exactly is meant by the terms "obese", "fat", "overweight", or "chubby", there will be disagreement.

"Obese" is defined by a BMI north of 30.

Quote:Quote:

If only 13 percent of Germans are "obese", according to statistics, well, this doesn't solve the problem as long as "chubby" or "just a little bit overweight" chicks aren't counted as "obese".

It doesn't solve the problem completely, but it tells us a lot.

The USA has nearly three times as many obese people as Germany does. That alone indicates that the USA is a much fatter nation than Germany on average.

Germany may still have plenty of chubby folks, but on the whole it is safe to conclude that there population is much thinner than the American one. Their streets are not crawling with landwhales.

Quote:Quote:

Anyway, the only thing that interests me is that 60 percent of all German chicks in the 20-30 years range are too fat for me personally. Just my personal opinion, based on my ideal of a slender woman.

Don't know if you're here already, but I'd suggest you avoid settling down in the US. The situation is worse here than anywhere in Western Europe, and that isn't even debatable.

Quote: (09-18-2011 10:24 AM)cibo Wrote:  

UK is 85% of America. The girl I'm dating went to the country side to visit a few times, said everyone was fat. London is better due to all the foreigners coming through but there's still a lot of fat chicks who are usually British.

I fully concur with this. Thus the transition is much easier than someone coming from mainland Europe etc.

Quote: (09-18-2011 11:42 AM)Clockwork_Orange Wrote:  

Again, I've never considered the British and Irish to be genuine/proper europeans, but they are rather a foreign group in many ways compared with more genuine european groups. I rather mix them up with North americans, Australians, NZ.

I also agree with this. I grew up in the UK and only when I first went to France, Holland etc..did I see how different us Brits are from the other Europeans.