Im too radical / blackNwhite to be the Pres.

There would be major radical reforms in healthcare , welfare, judicial system and foreign policy.

Bush would seem soft like a baby's ass compared to me lol

Quote: (09-11-2011 10:25 AM)megaframe Wrote:  

First of all, yes, I know there are plenty of times in history when the minority was right. But how do you know that 1500 is a significant number? Because you say so? It's sure not a democratic process, but 1500 is just a handful compared to the rest out there, so I'd sure like to know what scientific process you used to conjure up the conclusion that it's true.

I had mentioned that in my very first post on this thread:

"Out of all other angles, reasons and perspectives, the one that I think stands out the most is that the towers would NEVER have fallen in the first place due to the planes colliding into the towers - the maximum heat generated in that process was no more than 800F while the melting point of steel is 2750F! And even if the towers were to collapse due to the melting steel, first the top part would have "fallen over" instead of the entire structure turning into dust within a few seconds"

Quote: (09-10-2011 12:49 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

I just watched a good documentary called The Falling Man about those who decided to jump out of the buildings. It centers around this photo:



Torrent link: http://btjunkie.org/torrent/9-11-The-Fal...847417889e

In the second half you learn about the tendency of Americans to deny death, instead focusing on "hero" scenes and images. Sad documentary overall. There's no "conspiracy" discussion in it.

I couldn't stop from seeing imaginary people falling out of buildings for weeks after watching this documentary. With that piano music and that british voice.

Great documentary. Very sad.

Dash,

You think its absurd that a government would kill thousands of innocent people?

You obviously don't know your history.

Innocent people have been getting slaughtered for ages..

Joseph Stalin murdered millions of his own people.

Slobodan Milosovic killed hundreds of thousands of innocent people.

Saloth "Pol Pot" Sar murdered millions of his own people.

François "Papa Doc" Duvalier murdered 30,000 of his own people.

Adolf Hitler killed millions of innocent people.

We dropped atomic bombs on Japan killing millions of innocent people.

Rwanda genocide killed a million innocent people.

Dafur genocide killed a million innocent people.

The English enslaved the Irish.

The Turkish enslaved the Greeks.

The Whites enslaved the Blacks.

Millions of Native Indians were slaughtered to create America.

History is filled with examples of innocent people being slaughtered by their governments or neighboring governments.

Yet, you call it "absurd". Don't be naive. This stuff happens.

I'm not saying saying we planned and carried out 9/11, but if knew about it and let it happen, I wouldn't be surprised at all.

If we funded Al-Queda, I wouldn't be surprised at all.

If this kind of thing comes as a surprise to you, then you have probably lived a very sheltered life. Either that, or you are still very young and you haven't been exposed to the evils that men do.

Quote: (09-11-2011 12:41 AM)Dash Global Wrote:  

Quote: (09-11-2011 12:18 AM)Tbone Wrote:  

speakeasy is making a lot of sense in his comments, especially this one...

Quote: (09-10-2011 03:51 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

It would have took more than a few people to plan this. The people that recruited the hijackers, the private flying schools that trained them, the airport screeners that let them through, the workers that wired the buildings for demolition, the cleanup crews that would hide the chemical and other evidence of demolition from the rubble, building staff that turned a blind eye to explosives being planted in the building. A plot this big would leak, dude!

and this comment as well....

"For those that say the government knew the attack was going to happen and deliberately allowed it, why would they allow a plane to strike the Pentagon? Especially when you think of how critical that building is to our government. I could even somewhat see that scenario if the twin towers were the only target. But you'd also have to believe that they were willing to let the Pentagon get blown up and either the white house or capitol building if the plot wasn't foiled by the passengers fighting back."

lol at the people thinking only a "few people" could have known about this and executed it.

thinking the govt is gonna plan and kill thousands of innocent americans is just absurd. that would be a certain life or death sentence if someone found out and blew the whistle. Even if you think our politicians are Hitler and the devil the risk is just to high and not worth it. they are all living the good life before and after 9/11.

this kind of stuff can happen in 3rd world countries with dictators and shit but not in a 1st world democratic country. just too much planning involved, too many people, to big of risk of getting caught.

If you look at all the evidence, things don't add up. Having said that I agree with you that the government didn't plan it. I don't think they put explosives in the building, etc like many believe.

At the same time, I don't think they needed to plan it. The truth is likely somewhere in the middle. I think they knew the attack was going to go down and let it happen to capitalize on it politically.

We'll never know, but I think you gotta be a donkey to buy the 9/11 story as is.

Giovonny,

Maybe I should have been more clear.

Present day major democratic 1st world governments do not kill thousands of its own innocent citizens.

If you know of any I dont know then please post them with proven evidence.....

Obviously things were different back in the day and esp communist dictators (past and present)

Quote: (09-11-2011 12:57 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

If we funded Al-Queda, I wouldn't be surprised at all.

There's no if to it...

Quote: (09-11-2011 01:05 PM)Dash Global Wrote:  

Giovonny,

Maybe I should have been more clear.

Present day major democratic 1st world governments do not kill thousands of its own innocent citizens.

I hope you are right.

btw, your neighbors in North Korea know something about being slaughtered by their government also.

Quote: (09-11-2011 02:45 AM)Jim Kirk Wrote:  

King Kill 33 - killing the King of Camelot.

Jim,

I know that song is about the JFK assasination..

What do you think?

Could the US government have played a role in 9/11? Or is that just a crazy idea?

Edit: I just read your earlier post in this thread. Your position is clear. You know what man is capable of.

Quote: (09-11-2011 05:23 AM)Tony Snow25 Wrote:  

The reason for the Iraq war is for oil and and a way to make a few rich people more rich. It's funny when Dick Cheney was CEO of Haliburton the company received a multi billion dollar contract for the Iraq war. Saddam was a brutal dictator but he wasn't the only one in the world and there still is. My opinion is that most people do things for their benefit not out of the goodness of their hearts.

I think the oil/Haliburton thing gets a bit overblown. Bush and his cabinet were staunch neo-conservatives either steeped in the philosophy of the Project for a New American Century or actually members. They had been lobbying hard for sweeping regime change across the middle east for decades. They were marginalized during the Clinton years, but when Bush came to power, they found the right guy.

The PNAC for those that don't know is a think tank of highly influential hawkish neo-conservatives created after the end of the Cold War. Their main agenda was to see that America remains the world's lone superpower and they also had a highly Zionist agenda of protecting Israel and being ideologically aligned with Israel's Likud party. The founding members of the PNAC are conservative, hawkish Jews, btw.

I think the war in Iraq was in part a war of ideology pushed by the PNAC to get rid of Israel's main enemies. It was also in part to install Western friendly governments in a place that the world depends on as it's main source of energy. Not to steal the oil per se. And a third component I believe was to insure that Iraq and Iran don't start developing nuclear weapons. If Afghanistan and Iraq had ended quickly, we'd have moved on to Iran sure as day. At the end of the day, I'm convinced that this war was a geopolitical/power chess match than it was a plot to make money for Halliburton.

Good insights speakeasy.

That is about as close to the truth as we can get. On top of the issues you listed I still think ALL of Sadam's transgressions past and present played some role in us going to war.

But I think is was alot of factors and reasons that played into us going to war.

Quote: (09-11-2011 01:05 PM)Dash Global Wrote:  

If you know of any I dont know then please post them with proven evidence.....

If someone has to point things out to you then why are you even in the discussion?

You continue to try to debate these issues with people who unlike yourself have educated themselves on these issues.

Look up Operation Gladio, Britain's 7-7 false flag, the Oklahoma City bombing, the Madrid bombings in 2004, the Moscow subway bombing last year, and Abdulmutallab the underwear bomber. Hell, the recent attack in Norway doesn't even add up.

Take in the information that's been presented and make up your own mind based off the information, not mainstream media propaganda.

As it pertains to terrorism, the question one should ask, is who gains from it?

Whenever something goes down governments enact new laws to strip away more of the people's civil liberties and security agencies and their ilk end up making gobs of money.

Quote: (09-11-2011 01:17 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

Quote: (09-11-2011 01:05 PM)Dash Global Wrote:  

Giovonny,

Maybe I should have been more clear.

Present day major democratic 1st world governments do not kill thousands of its own innocent citizens.

I hope you are right.

False flags work. They instill fear in the people, and the governments use that fear to enact whatever policies they see fit knowing that the people will go along with them if they make them feel safe and retribution is sought against the concocted perpetrators.

Why would they wake up one day and say we're no longer going to utilize policies that work for us?

Please don't co-sign utopian bullshit from people who refuse to accept the reality of human nature.

Quote: (09-11-2011 01:06 PM)jariel Wrote:  

Quote: (09-11-2011 12:57 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

If we funded Al-Queda, I wouldn't be surprised at all.

There's no if to it...

We most definitely did not fund Al Queda because Al Queda didn't even rise to prominence until the mid 90s. During the 80s we provided support in funds, weapons and training to the mujahadeen who were fighting against the Soviet invasion. It was quite analogous to the way the Soviets provided support for the Vietcong fighting us in Vietnam. Especially when considering that Afghanistan was their Vietnam War. It didn't seem like a crazy idea during the time, but hindsight is always 20/20. I'm sure there's things our government is doing now that seem rational at the moment and 30 years from now historians will call them out as huge blunders. But then maybe it wasn't a blunder and the rise of the Mujahadeen was part of the price we paid to see the Iron Wall collapse.

The Soviets were so financially drained fighting the Mujahadeen that they are part of the reason the Iron Wall fell. Just think, some of you guys here venturing into E. Europe, Russia and Ukraine to fuck pretty girls wouldn't have the opportunity to do that if it wasn't for Bin Ladin, lol.

jariel,

There has been no proven incidents of present/recent 1st world democratic countries planning and killing thousands of its own citizens.

Gladio - which govt was this apart of actually? just says NATO/CIA. the alleged transgressions took place in Europe so if it was american than it doesnt apply

The rest are all just conspiracy THEORIES. No concrete evidence. I just looked up the first three, so im assuming the others are the same. Feel free to let me know which one is a 100% PROVEN FACT. Ill certainly take back my statement if you can prove otherwise....

Quote: (09-11-2011 01:44 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

We most definitely did not fund Al Queda because Al Queda didn't even rise to prominence until the mid 90s.

Dude, the Mujahideen is another way to describe insurgent groups such as the Taliban and Al-Qaeda. It's all the same shit, it's all connected.

It would be like someone trying to distinguish between the Bilderberg Group and the Council of Foreign Relations, same shit, different names.

Quote: (09-11-2011 01:50 PM)Dash Global Wrote:  

jariel,

There has been no proven incidents of present/recent 1st world democratic countries planning and killing thousands of its own citizens.

Gladio - which govt was this apart of actually? just says NATO/CIA. the alleged transgressions took place in Europe so if it was american than it doesnt apply

You said 1st World governments don't kill people, now if it happens in Europe, it doesn't count?

Apparently you don't know that the CIA is a U.S. government entity.

Your definitions of "proven", "1st world", are whatever you need them to be to support your fallacious, naivety driven perspective.

I challenged you to look into the information 20 minutes ago. No one can look at this shit for at most 20 minutes and claim to be knowledgeable enough to challenge another's assertions.

Dash: How much history have you studied/read?

jariel,

no i said they dont kill their OWN INNOCENT people/citizens.

here is my actual quote

"Present day major democratic 1st world governments do not kill thousands of its own innocent citizens."

All you did was post CONSPIRACY THEORIES.

Provide me with some 100% PROVEN EVIDENCE and ill be more than happy to admit / retract my statement.

roosh,

history is about the only subject in school i liked. i watch / read about a ton of history. history documentaries are like crack to me. politics, history, and religion have always interested me.

Quote: (09-11-2011 01:56 PM)jariel Wrote:  

Quote: (09-11-2011 01:44 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

We most definitely did not fund Al Queda because Al Queda didn't even rise to prominence until the mid 90s.

Dude, the Mujahideen is another way to describe insurgent groups such as the Taliban and Al-Qaeda. It's all the same shit, it's all connected.

It would be like someone trying to distinguish between the Bilderberg Group and the Council of Foreign Relations, same shit, different names.

Ideologically they are the same, but they formed at different times and were fighting different enemies. Saying we supported Al Queda(which was a terrorist organization that didn't begin targeting the U.S. until the mid 90s) is a hell of a lot different than saying we supported the Mujahadeen in fighting the Soviets. If you can't comprehend that crucial distinction then I don't know what to tell you.

I was gonna say the same thing SpeakEasy but I figured id let you handle that.

someone trying to compare the mujaheddin fighting the USSR and the al queda fighting/targeting America is just silly.

two completely diff things.

i think you are fighting a lost cause here.

myself included......

Quote: (09-11-2011 01:50 PM)Dash Global Wrote:  

There has been no proven incidents of present/recent 1st world democratic countries planning and killing thousands of its own citizens.

Hitler did it in Germany. He killed German citizens. That was about 70 years ago. Historically speaking, this is very recent.

Milosovich did it in Yugoslavia. That was 15 years ago.

You can't say these are bad examples. This stuff happened in Europe very recently.

Quote: (09-11-2011 02:16 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

Ideologically they are the same, but they formed at different times and were fighting different enemies. Saying we supported Al Queda(which was a terrorist organization that didn't begin targeting the U.S. until the mid 90s) is a hell of a lot different than saying we supported the Mujahadeen in fighting the Soviets. If you can't comprehend that crucial distinction then I don't know what to tell you.

What you're saying contradicts the direct statement made by Hillary Clinton on national television last year.

The West (this includes the U.S. btw) just used Al-Qaeda to overthrow Gadahfi.

The fact is depending on the issue, Al-Qaeda is either an enemy or an asset.

If our government did this (and admitted to doing it):

US apologizes for infecting Guatemalans with STDs in the 1940s

http://articles.cnn.com/2010-10-01/world...s=PM:WORLD

I think our government is capable of doing anything evil.

Time will (possibly) reveal the truth.

My bet is it will be pretty ugly (like the truth usually is).

Quote: (09-11-2011 02:06 PM)Dash Global Wrote:  

i said they dont kill their OWN INNOCENT people/citizens.


history is about the only subject in school i liked. i watch / read about a ton of history. history documentaries are like crack to me. politics, history, and religion have always interested me.

You say you have studied politics, history, and religion. Yet you find it "absurd' that innocent people can be killed by their leaders.

Politics, history, and religion are filled with examples of innocent people being murdered by their leaders. Even in the Bible, it happens. It has happened throughout the course of history.

Yet you are surprised by it.

I know, you want modern, 1st world examples. I gave you two, Germany and Yugoslavia.