How old are you two ? Mid 30s and mid 20s
How long have you been seeing her ? 6 weeks / 10 dates / 4 bangs prior to exclusivity (way too soon most likely)
How long have you been banging these other girls ? 4 months to 5 weeks
What made you decide to pull the trigger and ask her ? Tired from spinning plates, wanting more evenings to myself, one-itis, haven't had gf in long time, thinking she was different bc she lived first 10 years in Ukraine

you may be screwed, but force yourself off of phone service for a while. Ie. go to the gym and leave your phone at home. Go hiking on the weekend and leave your phone at home. Its going to force you out of your 'did she text?' anxiety.

Run that for a while, if she doesn't initiate, you are done, scared the cat and lesson learned. If she does initate, play it cool.

You're too outcome dependent.

It's like that newbie who daygames and hits on a lot of girls, has 5 numbers but thinks one of those is strong and concentrates on that, his whole 'game success' seems outcome dependent on being successful with that one girl.

Turn off your phone, play videogames, go to the gym, go for a walk, watch a cool movie. Forget you have a 'gf' for a second.

In all honesty you were on the backfoot once you told her you wanted to be 'exclusive'. If you wanted her to be your girlfriend, you could have done it without even telling her.

Seems like she is not into you that much, if things are already like that imagine what would be like in the future.

Desinvest! You already banged her, it's time to move on.

radio silence already paying off - she texted me first thing this AM apologizing for being "preoccupied with work". I'm going to reply after 1PM that it sounds like we both need drinks tonight and then will fuck her hard. Might be a good spot to raw dog her for the first time.

nm duplicate post

Quote: (11-11-2014 08:16 AM)bojangles Wrote:  

You're too outcome dependent.

In all honesty you were on the backfoot once you told her you wanted to be 'exclusive'. If you wanted her to be your girlfriend, you could have done it without even telling her.

Agreed, it was a dumb mistake... but I'm starting to think I can fix this.

Quote: (11-11-2014 09:17 AM)AntiTrace Wrote:  

That picture gave me a great laugh!

He may be able to fix it though, so to speak. I remember an LTR I had about 15 years ago. She was beautiful and I was definitely the beta adorer in the beginning, but eventually I had to change my tactics with her and she became the adorer.

I don't think it's too late for Mike to pull a stick save here. If nothing else, I'm sure it will be a great learning experience for the next time.

Quote: (11-11-2014 09:17 AM)AntiTrace Wrote:  

gave me a chuckle as well, but im fairly confident that i am blasé in reply and bang her raw tonight I'll be off to a good start and then just be colder and more aloof for a while.

FYI guys, we all warned him about it in the last thread he started:

Must you wait for the girl to discuss monogamy/relationship?

Quote:Quote:

I recognize and understand why under normal circumstances it's the best / most alpha strategy to drag your feet, keep seeing the rest of your harem, etc. and make the girl bring up monogamy and ask for a committed relationship. Then you, as the "wild stallion", have to allow her to feel that she's "tamed" you. I get that it's a smart way to enter a relationship and sets the table for a healthy dynamic.

I'm at that point with a girl that I really like - Plus I've been ready for a relationship for a while now (I've been single or "mostly single" for about 4 years at this point. I miss having dinner and seeing artsy movies and going to theater - things that I've only been able to do about 1/10th as much as I'd like with no true girlfriend during this time).

But what if the girl is a bit more shy and submissive because of her upbringing (Eastern Europe until a teenager) and is more thoughtful and traditional than 95% of her American-born peers? What if she works literally 60 hours a week and you suspect that she's not got time to be dating anybody else/worry about playing "games", etc. She just told me last night after sex that she was a virgin until 20. She's hesitant to talk about or bring up "awkward" things, so I wonder if - even if I dragged my feet for another two months - she'd have the grit to bring up such a difficult subject (in her mind).

Would it be such a bad deal for me to initiate the discussion in such an instance? Would I risk losing my "frame" from the get-to? I'm 34 and I'm tired of fucking girls that I don't care about - at least for the time being. I've been doing it for 4 years and have probably over 150 notches (kinda lost count). I'm just burned out and want to rest and be happy with this chick.

Actually, I didn't warn him there, but I remember the thread. I believe there was enough good advice for ya Mike that my input woulda been redundant.

Lesson learned man. Good luck, depending on the specifics, you can regain some hand.

Yep - I was warned to be sure, but used the fact that she was "shy" (at times) and "different" (eastern European descent, works 70 hours/week, busting her ass to make partner, etc.) enough to justify me breaking the norm to make the move.

Wish I could take that back, maybe narrow my harem to her and my 2nd best and keep rolling/looking to add another chick. I suppose it's too late for that but I can instead use gym/work/making guy friends/learning German as my "harem" to (hopefully) help keep my frame and persona.

Decide what you want.

Do you want multiple girls or one girl?

Do you want to be spinning plates and adding new girls to your rotation, or do you want a one-on-one relationship and more time to yourself, as you said earlier?

It all just comes down to clearly knowing what you want and achieving it. Sounds like you are of two minds and thus can't decide what you want.

Quote: (11-11-2014 12:21 AM)ball dont lie Wrote:  

Maybe shes just busy? I would stop worrying about her and go out with another girl. Get laid. Probably feel a lot better.

No girl is too busy for her man.

WIA

The slow path of realizing every little step in the relationship, every affirmation, every shoulder slouch, every text or phone call, every moment available, every little thing...a woman calculates to either having hand or losing it.

As men, as people, we understand having hand or not, having power or not, but what we don't understand is that women, to at least some degree, are more or less attracted based on hand.

So while we understand the power struggle, we don't know the extremity to which women calculate power, because it's ingrained into her DNA, her brain chemistry, everything.

It's a path you can only discover through experience (with guidance from RVF).

Quote: (11-11-2014 07:23 AM)MikeinMKE Wrote:  

How long have you been seeing her ? 6 weeks / 10 dates / 4 bangs prior to exclusivity (way too soon most likely)

....

After reading this, I realize that I'm not in an emotional state that allows me to properly analyze your situation.

WIA

Just remember my friend, no matter how cool a girl is, there is always - always more girls that are as good or better than her out there.

I can attest to the power of losing/gaining hand.

Time and time again, it never fucking fails, once you show any form of neediness or eagerness or commit or that the girl is a major factor in your life/source of happiness - then you've lost the fucking game. American girls HATE neediness. HATE. Every girl that was really into me in the past several years was into me because I was my own man doing my own thing, having great passive and active SMV, etc. I didn't care about them and they were chasing me and they loved it. The fucking moment I caught feelings for them and made it overt, they dried up like a fucking sandbox, went cold, cheated, faded away, etc.

Its absolutely insane that you have to actively fight your own feelings and resist the urge to fully embrace a girl that you are into, but with women in our culture today thats what you need to do if you want to keep them around and keep them interested. Shit is too easy for American girls. They want a challenge - they want a guy that is hard to pin down, who is interesting, who always has a little bit of mystery, etc. Once you show that her efforts of trying to impress you and win you over have worked, then she stops trying. She's not interested. Think of it like a child who wants to see or play with something that a big kid or an adult has. Once the get their hands on it they don't want it anymore because the allure is gone. they beg and plead and want to be teased with the prize, but once they get it their pleasure and emotional high is extremely fleeting.

We've all been there and we all fucking hate it. This is why so many men in the manosphere here are jaded and just want to relegate themselves to surface level interactions with women - just fucking and chucking them and keeping them at arm's length at all times. I haven't found a way to properly conquer this social phenomenon to the point where it makes me happy and comfortable. My only idea is that girls who do work with the way you naturally want to operate are out there it's just not that easy of a task to find (especially given our culture?)

As far as advice about the girl - it's possible you've already showed too much of your hand and turned her off a bit. It's not easy, but focus on your own shit and work on creative outlets that don't involve her. Hang out with your bros and just worry about yourself and the static people in your life that really care about you. Remember this - if it's really a relationship that you want, then you want one that works for you and isn't combative. There are 3.5 billion women on planet earth; there is no such thing as "the one" that's just an illusion your brain creates when you meet someone you think is a cut above what you can get/deserve (low self esteem) and you have a perceived lack of options (scarcity mentality).

Good stuff, Broseph Stalin

Quote: (11-11-2014 11:21 AM)General Stalin Wrote:  

I can attest to the power of losing/gaining hand.

Time and time again, it never fucking fails, once you show any form of neediness or eagerness or commit or that the girl is a major factor in your life/source of happiness - then you've lost the fucking game. American girls HATE neediness. HATE. Every girl that was really into me in the past several years was into me because I was my own man doing my own thing, having great passive and active SMV, etc. I didn't care about them and they were chasing me and they loved it. The fucking moment I caught feelings for them and made it overt, they dried up like a fucking sandbox, went cold, cheated, faded away, etc.

Couldn't of said it any better, you have to constantly keep your emotions in check. You can never act needy (I don't much). The minute you say "I like you" "I love you" "will you be my gf" "will you marry me" You've FUCKING LOST !

Quote:Quote:

Its absolutely insane that you have to actively fight your own feelings and resist the urge to fully embrace a girl that you are into, but with women in our culture today thats what you need to do if you want to keep them around and keep them interested. Shit is too easy for American girls. They want a challenge - they want a guy that is hard to pin down, who is interesting, who always has a little bit of mystery, etc. Once you show that her efforts of trying to impress you and win you over have worked, then she stops trying. She's not interested. Think of it like a child who wants to see or play with something that a big kid or an adult has. Once the get their hands on it they don't want it anymore because the allure is gone. they beg and plead and want to be teased with the prize, but once they get it their pleasure and emotional high is extremely fleeting.

We've all been there and we all fucking hate it. This is why so many men in the manosphere here are jaded and just want to relegate themselves to surface level interactions with women - just fucking and chucking them and keeping them at arm's length at all times. I haven't found a way to properly conquer this social phenomenon to the point where it makes me happy and comfortable. My only idea is that girls who do work with the way you naturally want to operate are out there it's just not that easy of a task to find (especially given our culture?)

[/quote]



THIS....fucking this ! With my main HB 8 ! I'll neg her like "well looks like I've gotta replace you " or when she asks what's up "you know the usual, picking up a hooker and blow" or when she let's me know she's near "ok cool, i gotta kick this girl out first" - this helps me keep my shit together. I don't tell her many details, I still fuck on the side, and I only see her once or twice a week.

You gotta find a line where you're happy and comfortable yet still have control of your relationship and frame. Never give it up !

Quote: (11-11-2014 10:40 AM)Sonsowey Wrote:  

Decide what you want.

Do you want multiple girls or one girl?

Do you want to be spinning plates and adding new girls to your rotation, or do you want a one-on-one relationship and more time to yourself, as you said earlier?

It all just comes down to clearly knowing what you want and achieving it. Sounds like you are of two minds and thus can't decide what you want.

I think you bring up good points here, it sounds like Mike has decided that he wants a serious relationship and is kind of over the grind of the dating game. Yet, I think all this talk of "alpha" makes himself and a lot of other guys second guess themselves and what they really want.

When you draw imaginary lines in the sand as to what behavior is "beta" and "alpha" it can cloud one's judgement as to what is the correct line of action. Instead of being true to what you want and how you feel, a guy may think "I'm being a total beta by abandoning my harem", a true "alpha" would fuck every girl and not show any signs of emotion or attachment until the girl does first.

Now to play devil's advocate the dating game, and the modern American woman has become so cold that in a lot of ways a guy really does have to play the game by this shrewd set of rules in a sense, in order to protect himself from getting burned. Being a little cold and calculating can be a necessary evil, I know because I've had to learn the hard way, having been to "nice, trusting, forgiving, etc.", only to have it come back around and bite me in the ass.

As far as Mike goes though, I think he should follow the most cliche cheesy advice in the book and "follow his heart". Sometimes following your heart can be a recipe for disaster, but you never know until you try.

To touch on a subject that he was pondering, as to whether there is anything wrong with bringing up the conversation about making things exclusive and making it "official", personally I don't think there's anything wrong with it, as long as your not coming from a place of neediness, over-investment, and "one-itis".

A lot of times it is better to allow the female to initiate the talk over "exclusiveness" in the relationship, in the sense that it frames it that she wants it more than you do, but most of the time women will sit back and expect the man to make the move, whether it be sexually or in the relationship. Personally I know how relationships can get stuck in limbo in this day and age, where you're not sure if you're together, or friends with benefits or what.

Shit even assuming that a girl is monogamous with you even if she displays all the signs can be a recipe for disaster. I think it's better to throw the cards on the table at a certain point (as long as it's not too soon), and let them know how you feel, what you want, and what you expect out of a serious relationship. That way you know how things stand and can start to draw concrete boundaries, that a women will inevitably test.

I knew Mike's chick was going to hit him up and apologize, because that's what chicks do. He's just going to have to delay his text response, act aloof, and play the game. I don't think all is lost, but he must know realize how much he was putting her on the pedestal and acting needy, and will have to take a step back to balance out their dynamic.

the best way to make a girl your girlfriend is to make it that way first before you talk about it.

fuck her to the point that she wants no one else. do the bf/gf shit you want to do with her.

and never ever ever ever ever be the one to say you want it to be exclusive. she has to be the one to do so.

i'm sure this was already said before, so I just want to echo it.

Travesty444 wrote


"It's a sad but almost always true thing. It's almost impossible to have a great relationship with a woman where you are very overly excited about it. She has to be way more excited than you are for it work long term without a bunch of bullshit. This means the fantasy of being high in love with each other is usually trash.

She can get high on love all she likes. You can't afford that. You are the one supplying the high. Girls are love high takers much more than givers for the most part".


That is the absolute truth. It's the irony of it all. Uncle Wayne (Michael Douglas) from GHOST OF GIRLFRIENDS PAST said it best and it's worth repeating in this situation:

"If there's one thing you learn here tonight it's this; The power in a relationship lies with whoever cares less" Amen brother Wayne,...Amen!

I'll go ahead and say dump her. You need to always be in control of your frame, you lost it. I wouldn't bother trying to recover it with this chick.

Start fresh and learn from your mistakes.

Quote: (11-11-2014 01:17 PM)OGNorCal707 Wrote:  

Quote: (11-11-2014 10:40 AM)Sonsowey Wrote:  

Decide what you want.

Do you want multiple girls or one girl?

Do you want to be spinning plates and adding new girls to your rotation, or do you want a one-on-one relationship and more time to yourself, as you said earlier?

It all just comes down to clearly knowing what you want and achieving it. Sounds like you are of two minds and thus can't decide what you want.

I think you bring up good points here, it sounds like Mike has decided that he wants a serious relationship and is kind of over the grind of the dating game. Yet, I think all this talk of "alpha" makes himself and a lot of other guys second guess themselves and what they really want.

When you draw imaginary lines in the sand as to what behavior is "beta" and "alpha" it can cloud one's judgement as to what is the correct line of action. Instead of being true to what you want and how you feel, a guy may think "I'm being a total beta by abandoning my harem", a true "alpha" would fuck every girl and not show any signs of emotion or attachment until the girl does first.

Now to play devil's advocate the dating game, and the modern American woman has become so cold that in a lot of ways a guy really does have to play the game by this shrewd set of rules in a sense, in order to protect himself from getting burned. Being a little cold and calculating can be a necessary evil, I know because I've had to learn the hard way, having been to "nice, trusting, forgiving, etc.", only to have it come back around and bite me in the ass.

As far as Mike goes though, I think he should follow the most cliche cheesy advice in the book and "follow his heart". Sometimes following your heart can be a recipe for disaster, but you never know until you try.

To touch on a subject that he was pondering, as to whether there is anything wrong with bringing up the conversation about making things exclusive and making it "official", personally I don't think there's anything wrong with it, as long as your not coming from a place of neediness, over-investment, and "one-itis".

A lot of times it is better to allow the female to initiate the talk over "exclusiveness" in the relationship, in the sense that it frames it that she wants it more than you do, but most of the time women will sit back and expect the man to make the move, whether it be sexually or in the relationship. Personally I know how relationships can get stuck in limbo in this day and age, where you're not sure if you're together, or friends with benefits or what.

Shit even assuming that a girl is monogamous with you even if she displays all the signs can be a recipe for disaster. I think it's better to throw the cards on the table at a certain point (as long as it's not too soon), and let them know how you feel, what you want, and what you expect out of a serious relationship. That way you know how things stand and can start to draw concrete boundaries, that a women will inevitably test.

I knew Mike's chick was going to hit him up and apologize, because that's what chicks do. He's just going to have to delay his text response, act aloof, and play the game. I don't think all is lost, but he must know realize how much he was putting her on the pedestal and acting needy, and will have to take a step back to balance out their dynamic.

I agree, in principle with one exception/ variation when it comes to the subject of "exclusivity". My approach (and by default..advice) has always been to establish one boundary early on. If a chick is becoming a "regular" (usually 3rd bang) I ALWAYS say:

"Just so you know. I dont sleep with women who are sleeping with other guys"

Bam!,... no discussion. They tend to fill in the blanks themselves with what they want to