So the thread title says it all. I've been going on as many first dates as possible, most of them from Tinder and POF. The dates themselves seem to be going well. I've been working on my body language, leaning back, doing light kino and getting the women to talk about 70% of the time. I never go for the public kiss as per Tuth's first date bang recipe and I really try to make the date about comfort and building a connection.

A little bit into the date I'll drop some bait about me being a photographer in order to plant the seed of them coming over to my place later and after around an hour or so I'll casually ask "I don't know if you have anything else going tonight but how about we go to my place and I can show you those photos from xyz that I was telling you about?" About 1/3 of the time they will agree without hesitation but the other 2/3 they will act slightly uncomfortable and say something like "at your house??" I'll casually say yes as if it's the most normal thing in the world and they will answer with something along the lines of "Hmm, maybe next time" or "I'm not comfortable with that yet but I like hanging here with you."

After that it seems to be a lost cause and so far I've never been able to turn a "maybe next time" into a yes. And we all know a "maybe next time" is usually a "not a chance in hell". Has anyone been able to overcome this kind of resistance or am I missing a fundamental element in my first date game? Or is it just part of the numbers game? I approach all first dates with the mindset that I can successfully get the bang 100% of the time, whether it's realistic or not.

A couple points:

1. Don't be disheartened...This isn't the easiest thing in the world
2. Any alcohol involved?...Sober chics are "smart" chics, ie smart enough to understand their vagina value, or vv, and not give it away so easily. Not going to your apt is an easy way to avoid bangin
3. Any change of venues?...Well, enough has been written on this
4. Social proof?...Helps to run into a friend or bartender you know, so she knows you're safe

This isn't the easiest thing. Read Poosy Paradise. Even Roosh has to work his ass off at this.

Quote: (10-14-2014 03:22 PM)heavy Wrote:  

A couple points:

1. Don't be disheartened...This isn't the easiest thing in the world
2. Any alcohol involved?...Sober chics are "smart" chics, ie smart enough to understand their vagina value, or vv, and not give it away so easily. Not going to your apt is an easy way to avoid bangin
3. Any change of venues?...Well, enough has been written on this
4. Social proof?...Helps to run into a friend or bartender you know, so she knows you're safe

This isn't the easiest thing. Read Poosy Paradise. Even Roosh has to work his ass off at this.

Thanks Heavy. I limit the drinks to one round, two at the most as per Tuth's recommendation to keep the costs down. I don't do the venue change either. I deliberately try to keep the date on the less sexual side while we're at the bar since every time I've ever ramped up the sexual vibe the woman will enjoying it but her ASD will kick in in a huge way. "Oh no, I'm definitely not coming over, that would be nothing but trouble..."

30% pull to your house on the first date is quite good, especially given the quick way you're working it.

If you want to increase it, you're going to need to do three things:

Venue change-this is extremely important. Many guys underestimate the psychological power of this in getting a girl to trust you. Two venues are much better than one, but to me three is the magic number.

Spend more time- an hour goes pretty quick. I expect to invest a minimum of 4 hours on a first date

Add more alcohol

Quote: (10-14-2014 03:54 PM)MrXY Wrote:  

30% pull to your house on the first date is quite good, especially given the quick way you're working it.

If you want to increase it, you're going to need to do three things:

Venue change-this is extremely important. Many guys underestimate the psychological power of this in getting a girl to trust you. Two venues are much better than one, but to me three is the magic number.

Spend more time- an hour goes pretty quick. I expect to invest a minimum of 4 hours on a first date

Add more alcohol

Thanks MrXY. When you say 4 hours is that before you attempt the pull? That will be tough on a week night if the date is at 8-9pm which mine usually are. I need to go back to the basics in Bang where Roosh suggests to start the date in a cafe and then move to the bar. The venue change is taken care of and the costs are still low.

I've always wondered about the venue change and it's ability to work. I haven't done it yet but really need to start incorporating it into my game.

It just seems a bit strange to me to invite a girl for coffee at 8pm at night?

I think maybe one bar followed by another?

First, why do you feel you need to "pull girls home on the first date"? SDL are highly overrated. The more comfortable a girl feels with you and the greater the sexual tension the better the sex will be.

Any possibilities of going to her place? (You wanted to get a photo of that neat (whatever) she was talking about...)

Quote: (10-14-2014 08:03 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  

First, why do you feel you need to "pull girls home on the first date"? SDL are highly overrated. The more comfortable a girl feels with you and the greater the sexual tension the better the sex will be.

Nomad77, I'm willing to go for the bang on a later date but my experience has shown second and especially third dates are becoming increasingly rare in today's smartphone fueled dating climate. I was under the impression that the general consensus was to go for the bang sooner rather than later?

http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-15569.html

Hmmm, could be depending on age and location. Once a girl goes out with me one time, I usually have no problem seeing her again but then again I built relationships and am pretty good at it.

The 1/3 girls that come back to your place do you have a problem seeing them again too? Or you don't see any of these girl again?

Quote: (10-14-2014 03:06 PM)OregonToSoCal Wrote:  

I never go for the public kiss as per Tuth's first date bang recipe...

I remember that Tuth point, but in my experience, some kissing on the first date helps me seal the deal. Usually it's semi-private: dark corner of venue, sidewalk on side-street between venues, or if we're on a roof of a building (a party), maybe we climb somewhere slightly scary and I make my kiss move.

My kiss move: during a close bedroom voice/eyes moment that includes some touching (my hand on her hip, perhaps), I do the subtle "direct her chin with my two fingers". I do a sensual yet quick kiss on her lower lip, pulling it ever-so-slightly... then I softly push on her hips to end it. I'll either turn back and lead us elsewhere, or stay in front of her and continue whatever we had been talking about. This all happens quickly and smoothly, and gets her VERY excited. If a little more kissing ensues, that's a good time to do the dominance test of hand-in-hair soft-pull, or caressing/squeezing neck areas.

I never let this turn into sloppy full-fledged makeout. It sets a great tingle-reference-point for her, and I find my first date -> back home rate is 75%. (Sex pretty likely at that point, if no major ASD). If back home clearly isn't happening (usually logistics), she'll be remembering that tingle moment everytime she thinks of me between now and the next date.

For the record, I tend to connect emotionally/mentally pretty deep/quick with girls... if there's a personality mismatch, that usually prevents a first date from occuring, so maybe I'm pre-screening pretty hard before first dates.

Quote: (10-14-2014 09:55 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  

Hmmm, could be depending on age and location. Once a girl goes out with me one time, I usually have no problem seeing her again but then again I built relationships and am pretty good at it.

Do you have some tips on how to build those emotional connections with girls? Sharing their interests, telling them personal information, etc? I have had the same problem as the OP in the past, even when I had sex with them. I feel that's one of the most important parts of game if you want to keep them around.

Quote: (10-15-2014 12:25 AM)Nomad77 Wrote:  

The 1/3 girls that come back to your place do you have a problem seeing them again too? Or you don't see any of these girl again?

If I'm able to get the bang the second date is almost always mine for the taking. However I've recently discovered that some of my after date texting game needed serious tightening up. I found myself over texting and thinking it was okay to text more after getting the first date which led to their interest level taking a nose dive.

I'm also reevaluating my mindset of going for the first date bang. It seems as though even if I'm successful in getting them to come home with me and even if they're turned on the idea that "OMG I just met you, this is only our first date!!" is too much for their little hamster to process.

I'm hoping I can eliminate all of that thinking by keeping the first date short and interesting and then run my traditional first date game on the now second date. It's always a work in progress...

It is a work in progress

Game is fluid and ever-changing - there is no hard and fast rules per se

One girl may be chomping at the bit to get naked first time out while the next may need a little more comfort

Be sure to make your texting just as scarce or provocative as it was BEFORE the first date; you don't want to turn into a texting machine just because things went well first time out. They may be sensing that over eagerness or a need to impress.

There are other ways to create more comfort when you can't get first date lays. Stay interesting. Continuing taking the initiative. Depending on the tone of the first date, you may take some liberties by being more direct without showing all your cards. Set yourself up where the 2nd date it's almost a formality.

Step back one step, come forward two...

Meanwhile .300 is still a pretty good batting percentage

Quote: (10-15-2014 09:10 AM)MdWanderer Wrote:  

Do you have some tips on how to build those emotional connections with girls? Sharing their interests, telling them personal information, etc?

I like telling them about MY passions/endeavors in a fun, dramatic, passionate (duh) way... the topic is less important than the vibe. Once they are hooked I ask about their passions, and if they have 'em, great... if not, they will tend to refocus and ask more about my stuff. Meanwhile our bodies are getting closer, voices/eyes more bedroomy, etc. You have to believe your own vibe though and "be in the moment", heh.

Quote: (10-15-2014 11:36 AM)456 Wrote:  

Quote: (10-15-2014 09:10 AM)MdWanderer Wrote:  

Do you have some tips on how to build those emotional connections with girls? Sharing their interests, telling them personal information, etc?

I like telling them about MY passions/endeavors in a fun, dramatic, passionate (duh) way... the topic is less important than the vibe. Once they are hooked I ask about their passions, and if they have 'em, great... if not, they will tend to refocus and ask more about my stuff. Meanwhile our bodies are getting closer, voices/eyes more bedroomy, etc. You have to believe your own vibe though and "be in the moment", heh.

I agree, a lot of it is calibration which will only come from going on a lot of dates.

I crafted my last question around the fact that many girls are fickle these days; I've had dates where I was batting 1.000 only to never hear from them again. Age and value are a factor too; any woman I've been with over the age of 35 I could've thrown up on her lap and still got her out for a second date.

Quote: (10-15-2014 11:05 AM)MY DETROIT PLAYAS Wrote:  

It is a work in progress

Game is fluid and ever-changing - there is no hard and fast rules per se

One girl may be chomping at the bit to get naked first time out while the next may need a little more comfort

Be sure to make your texting just as scarce or provocative as it was BEFORE the first date; you don't want to turn into a texting machine just because things went well first time out. They may be sensing that over eagerness or a need to impress.

There are other ways to create more comfort when you can't get first date lays. Stay interesting. Continuing taking the initiative. Depending on the tone of the first date, you may take some liberties by being more direct without showing all your cards. Set yourself up where the 2nd date it's almost a formality.

Step back one step, come forward two...

Meanwhile .300 is still a pretty good batting percentage

MDP you're spot on! I'm actively incorporating every one of those ideas and things are starting to take shape. I used to have the mindset that here in OC California it's a very competitive dating market and like a good "salesman" I needed to follow up, be persistent and otherwise not let a woman forget about me. Well, I realize now that all of those behaviors were pushing away the ones I was interested in. Over the last few weeks I've been cutting back my texting to setting logistics only with a few pleasantry messages to take the edge off and things have dramatically improved.

I have only one cardinal rule: follow emotionally but lead physically. As long as you follow a woman emotionally you really can't go wrong. This means not expressing more emotions than she does at any point. For example, this means not texting her more than she is texting you and keeping your messages about the same length etc. Not saying or acting in a way that expresses more emotions than she does. Doesn't matter how many times you have seen her, this rule always applies.

Quote: (10-15-2014 12:06 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  

I have only one cardinal rule: follow emotionally but lead physically. As long as you follow a woman emotionally you really can't go wrong. This means not expressing more emotions than she does at any point. For example, this means not texting her more than she is texting you and keeping your messages about the same length etc. Not saying or acting in a way that expresses more emotions than she does. Doesn't matter how many times you have seen her, this rule always applies.

Good advice Nomad77! One question though. In the case of women who are really hooked and text frequently it's always ok to communicate less than them (but never more than correct?)

Quote: (10-15-2014 12:06 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  

I have only one cardinal rule: follow emotionally but lead physically. As long as you follow a woman emotionally you really can't go wrong. This means not expressing more emotions than she does at any point. For example, this means not texting her more than she is texting you and keeping your messages about the same length etc. Not saying or acting in a way that expresses more emotions than she does. Doesn't matter how many times you have seen her, this rule always applies.

Good advice, I will try to follow this. I'm going to need it beaten into my head a million times but I will follow it.

Yes, it's always ok to do everything less than them but never more. You can slip up once in awhile if you are already banging her but only once in awhile. I usually try to keep my emotional output at about 80% of theirs. One easy way to do this called mirroring.

http://www.nlp-secrets.com/nlp-technique-mirroring.php

Mirror and throttle back your output by about 20%. It is important to understand that we express emotions primarily subconsciously and we can do this in many different ways.

Quote: (10-15-2014 01:09 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  

Yes, it's always ok to do everything less than them but never more. You can slip up once in awhile if you are already banging her but only once in awhile. I usually try to keep my emotional output at about 80% of theirs. One easy way to do this called mirroring.

http://www.nlp-secrets.com/nlp-technique-mirroring.php

Mirror and throttle back your output by about 20%. It is important to understand that we express emotions primarily subconsciously and we can do this in many different ways.

I think my biggest confusion with this is trying to present a fun vibe with the girl. Often she is usually laid back before the date while I'm like a kid in a candy store. Not because I'm happy to go out with the woman, it's mainly due to trying to create a fun vibe. I'll try next time to be interesting yet mysterious and below her energy level. I was always scared that acting chill on dates would make me seem boring in her eyes.

You can act fun without being too emotional. Being too needy is not about being boring and laid back it's not about not expressing too much of an interest in her or your interaction with her. A good way to think of this is to do everything you want just watch how she is reacting to you and match her emotional output.

Quote: (10-15-2014 07:23 PM)MdWanderer Wrote:  

Quote: (10-15-2014 01:09 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  

Yes, it's always ok to do everything less than them but never more. You can slip up once in awhile if you are already banging her but only once in awhile. I usually try to keep my emotional output at about 80% of theirs. One easy way to do this called mirroring.

http://www.nlp-secrets.com/nlp-technique-mirroring.php

Mirror and throttle back your output by about 20%. It is important to understand that we express emotions primarily subconsciously and we can do this in many different ways.

I think my biggest confusion with this is trying to present a fun vibe with the girl. Often she is usually laid back before the date while I'm like a kid in a candy store. Not because I'm happy to go out with the woman, it's mainly due to trying to create a fun vibe. I'll try next time to be interesting yet mysterious and below her energy level. I was always scared that acting chill on dates would make me seem boring in her eyes.

Go on YouTube and watch some scenes with Daniel Craig as James Bond, Clint Eastwood as The Man with No Name, Mel Gibson as The Road Warrior, or Jack Nicholson in just about any role.

Do those guys act like entertainment monkeys? No- and they are considered sexy masculine icons by women.

What women find exciting and alluring is masculine power. Generate that internally, keep it pent up, let it exude from you, and express it in unpredictable times, places and ways, and no girl will ever call you "boring."