Quote: (10-08-2014 01:37 AM)Veloce Wrote:  

If a girl insists on eating, it means she has a poor relationship with food. Food should not be a big deal. It should not be an incentive. Normal people eat meals without fanfare or treating a meal out as some sort of currency. Most girls can't cook or feed themselves, I get that. I'll lose bangs for not taking girls out to dinner, I get that too. Pussy isn't that important to me. Fucking the right kind of girl is much more important to me.
...
Now, with all this in mind, Seamus does bring up a very good point. There are exceptions. In his case, his girl was making it very clear that seeing him was a priority. Most girls after a busy day are too tired for dates. She was doing what it takes to stay energized for the date. Big difference between that and a girl looking for a food handout.

This guy gets it. Anyone who's done any kind of fasting knows that 4-6 hours without eating is nothing.

Think about how long you sleep every day - I've never had to wake up in the middle of the night and eat a bucket of wings or starve.

Women can't fast as easily as men, but that's in the 10+ hour range. I'm generally not going to waste my time on someone who's so disorganised they can't even feed themselves on a regular schedule.

I've done food dates pre-bang where appropriate - like the girl who made time to see me despite having just done a 4 hour drive during the day. Went to a Japanese restaurant, had a great time.

But if she's been sat at home on the couch all day and expects me to feed her? No way. I do what I want, not what she wants.

Quote: (10-08-2014 01:37 AM)Veloce Wrote:  

I know I'm in the minority here, and that this is the present state of American culture. Dining out is now a social activity. Instead of going out for a cocktail or two, now people have to order a round of "small plates" to go with it.

"Small plates" ?

Like "tapas", etc. ?

This is not only an American thing.

Many cultures like to "snack" while drinking.

Quote: (10-07-2014 06:52 PM)horn Wrote:  

For those of you worried about costs, do you limit her to 2 drinks? 4? Where's the line.. ?

I thought this was a great question.

How many drinks will you buy for a girl on a first date?

Quote: (10-08-2014 01:37 AM)Veloce Wrote:  

she orders a $22 glass of champagne

How many of these would you pay for on a first date?

2?, 3?, 4?

Quote:Quote:

I'm generally not going to waste my time on someone who's so disorganised they can't even feed themselves on a regular schedule.

Please. And you're going to know this before your first date how?

Y'all got this shit backwards!

Last girl I banged brought me an appetizer.

I told her to come over for drinks when she got off work, which was 10pm. It was our "first date."

Girl serves at a sushi restaurant, and showed up with 2 California rolls for me. "These were extra, I didn't want them to go to waste" she said. Nice girl.

We drank vodka sodas, talked about the lunar eclipse, and banged.

I rolled out of bed and ate the sushi.

Then she went home.

Guys, don't make this shit more complicated than it needs to be.

Quote: (10-04-2014 10:53 PM)Atlantic Wrote:  

I am loving this thread.

I got burnt badly my first year in Canada running dinner and drink game on a girl. After she refused to kiss when she came back to my hotel room 'I am not that sort of girl' (already kissed her when I met her in the club the week before) I released I had been hustled and told her promptly to get the fuck out.

Now I run as close to 'zero cost bang' game as possible.

Food? 'Sure - I will cook at my place' (I always cook big portions anyway)
Drinks? 'Ya I would love some wine, bring some over and I will cook'
Movie? 'Ya sure, come on over, whats your netflix password'
Activity? Walking, coming with me to the supermarket (actually pretty fun) or a coffee n walk (prefer to move around)

After I bang a girl a few times I might start bringing them out for breakfast or getting some takeaway for a night in. If they are particularly nice maybe the odd dinner out when I feel like it.

This is a combination of knowing that we are seeing each other primarily for sex, making sure I am not getting hustled and avoiding all the drama and time of bar dates/nightclubs. My turnover/failure rate is way down and I get a lot less bullshit using this approach.

I am a fan of trying to hustle girls as much as they try hustle guys. It is fun to reverse all the sneaky tricks.

Underrated post. I rarely take girls out. Maybe it's because I mostly meet girls on campus, but it's usually pretty easy to get them to come to my apartment for a movie and drinks, and my game's intermediate at best.

My biggest game related expenses are keeping my home bar stocked, and my Netflix subscription.

Quote: (10-08-2014 01:37 AM)Veloce Wrote:  

I'm seeing more and more women that order an Old Fashioned or a beer and a plate of fried chicken wings.

Why do American girls do this shit? I once had a girl ask for glass of bourbon, neat, and then grimace every time she took a sip and end up pouring half of it out. What are they trying to prove?

I've learned since then, and don't let girls choose anymore. Depending on what type of girl it is, she get's a nice glass of wine that I pretend to know way more about than I actually do, or she get's Froggy B vodka with crystal light.

Quote: (10-08-2014 10:13 AM)el mechanico Wrote:  

Quote:Quote:

I'm generally not going to waste my time on someone who's so disorganised they can't even feed themselves on a regular schedule.

Please. And you're going to know this before your first date how?

That's the purpose of the first date, isn't it?

Decide whether you want to bang then eject or escalate.

Quote: (10-08-2014 11:57 AM)Benoit Wrote:  

Quote: (10-08-2014 10:13 AM)el mechanico Wrote:  

Quote:Quote:

I'm generally not going to waste my time on someone who's so disorganised they can't even feed themselves on a regular schedule.

Please. And you're going to know this before your first date how?

That's the purpose of the first date, isn't it?

Decide whether you want to bang then eject or escalate.

You wouldn't be on a date with her if you weren't interested in banging. Why take a girl out of the running over her eating schedule?

This nearly came up last night on a first date.

As she went for the food menu, I asked the bartender for the check so I could pay for the drinks we had.

She then put down the menu, but I still paid for the drinks.

Quote: (10-08-2014 12:12 PM)Mujeriego Wrote:  

You wouldn't be on a date with her if you weren't interested in banging. Why take a girl out of the running over her eating schedule?

It's not some black or white thing, just something I consider a red flag.

Surely everyone has been out with someone who said or did something that turned you completely off them.

Quote: (10-08-2014 10:04 AM)Giovonny Wrote:  

Quote: (10-08-2014 01:37 AM)Veloce Wrote:  

I know I'm in the minority here, and that this is the present state of American culture. Dining out is now a social activity. Instead of going out for a cocktail or two, now people have to order a round of "small plates" to go with it.

"Small plates" ?

Like "tapas", etc. ?

This is not only an American thing.

Many cultures like to "snack" while drinking.

In Spain, not all bars are tapas bars (though many are)

If you set up a date, there would be no mistake as to what kind of evening you could expect. If you ask a girl to meet you at a tapas bar, you would expect the two of you to order some tapas.

Chances are, if she's feminine, she'll peck away at a couple items. A tuna stuffed piquillo, a bite of tortilla espagnola, and that's it. There's no giant bowl of french fries or a platter of bone marrow toast.

By contrast, in the U.S. when tell a girl to meet you for a drink, it should mean just that. Beverages.

This thread:

   

It was about one thing, then it turned into frame, status, food relations in American women/culture. Before we know it, it's going to turn into how appetizers are a feminist plot to stomp on a man's frame.

Great thread, I avoided it a few days ago but gave it a proper read over the past hour or so.

I don't fall in either camp, it is completely dependent on the scenario and vibes. If it is a girl from social circle vs girls I picked up solo it is a different story as the context changes. The cliquey nature of my local pool means social circle girls will spread the word if I am a cheapass. Instead, I just adapt and not take these girls on dinner or even drink dates out but rather invite them over directly. Obviously, this thread is about the latter category so continuing...

It is crucial to always have an understanding of their 'expectations' and demolish these with your own i.e frame.

Therefore, I do what I want, regardless of cost or outcome. When I look back, I really don't give a fuck because I did it and I wanted to. Selfishness prevails.

I usually won't eat with girls solely because I do not like to talk when I eat. I like to be quiet and enjoy my food. It kind of goes against the whole 'getting to know you' and 'unwrapping gifts' phase of date 1 and I will avoid if possible. Also, unless it is a health bar or hipster joint, the food will usually be unhealthy and I have made a conscious decision to control what food I put into my body.

Should I be hungry and it is near dinnertime or I am meeting her after gym or work, I will order some food. This is a consequence of logistics and because I want to do it. She is free to order what she pleases. Picking up the bill depends on if her company warranted it. I do this with people I like and it is a cultural thing; I get this, you get the next time. If I don't like you then you can fuck off. I usually know by this point if I will get laid or not.


A lot of guys are painting this as black and white and this thread sparked a debate and then the discussion focused on American women therefore excuse my inexperience. I have banged 3 or so US girls and all of them were over drinks, no food and straight to bed. I paid for the drinks. If you're having US problems I feel bad for you son. Sometimes I feel as if a lot of these discussions end with US women being the scapegoat but again, I apologize if I am misreading due to my inexperience with them. I am here to learn.

My experience is mainly with white non-US middle class women and I noticed the Western ones are more liberal and will solely get drinks. The Eastern European ones will get something to nibble. This is not really an issue, I expect this and I am always prepared for this.

I never go into a drink date and adamantly rule out food. They are free to eat but it is a shit test of my own. If it is just them eating and they don't offer to pay for it, I know what kind of a girl she is. I will put in the effort during the rest of the night to fuck her (assuming I pick up the bill because I know it is my game to fuck up) but that is the price I pay for a character test.

I will make a joke about it when she orders or when the food comes (I thought you were cutting carbs/I hope you brought chewing gum/feed me a bite etc.) with a shit eating grin on my face. After that I won't bat an eyelid. She better eat with her mouth closed though, fucks sake.

Of course, these are just 'guidelines' and I never really follow them 100% as you gotta adapt really. For this reason, I don't understand why some members are getting so emotionally involved in this debate and polarizing.

I live my life on principles and one of them is not to be taken for a ride. The other however is to not get emotionally involved with such small things and that everything is a lesson. It's all part of the learning curve. It is regrettable that a member here got banned over this but at least we weeded out some insecurities.

Looking back over the past year, I am not at a 'profit' but not at a massive loss either. Cattle Rustler, I know you are a MILF lothario-liptario so I am sure you must be getting a few freebies here and there so I am interested by your 'team appetizers' choice I had a few older women who would shower me with gifts and food; my main expense was transport to their place when logistics was off and this would balance it out.

With girls my age or older, I would usually split the bill on the first date if possible, just to establish boundaries and because it was ingrained in me from a long time ago. Only in the past year that I have been financially strong have I over-looked it, given their company warranted it. I have 'friend-zoned' a few girls by not paying and that also had its benefits; the friendzone didn't last for long.

From the past few weeks:

- A girl I am banging misbehaved me the other time and I cut it short, asked for the bill, paid my part and tipped and pushed it to her. She got pissed off and I blanked her for a week. She is now completely 'obedient' and wants to be a regular.

- I met a girl off tinder last Wednesday when I was crashing at my friends house before moving into my new place. I messaged her and she came to the bar next to where I was staying. 20 yo, cute blonde with the most innocent face and a curvy body. I was hungry but I never mentioned it. We had a few drinks, she turned out to be really cool and I sussed out the logistics. Then I asked her if she was hungry and we shared a pizza. I got the bill and fucked her my buddies 39yo sister's mattress was sleeping on, his sister was sleeping in the master bedroom (no sheets, ha). It cost me R350 ($35) and she gave me a ride to work.

In her mind, I would be a total bum if I did not pay the bill and I fucked her on the floor with my suitcase and boxes lying there. She invited me over for dinner tonight but I rejected (not bothered to meet her flatmate) and she is coming over in 30 mins (she will meet my female flatmate, lol).

- I have a date with a 22yo bisexual tomorrow and it is perfect because she has dinner with her parents beforehand, therefore just drinks. I just got lucky that she will not be hungry but I would follow standard protocol and suss it out.

It all depends really and I detest classifying this a dichotomy of paying vs not paying. It is principle of being played rather than financial and I will agree to the max with that but if their company is worth it and I know my game is being rewarded then why not. Sex is easy, friendships are common but women adhering to my principles and making me want to spend time with them over and over is not.

How about Team Taxi??

Quote: (10-08-2014 12:19 PM)Blaze Frazier Wrote:  

This nearly came up last night on a first date.

As she went for the food menu, I asked the bartender for the check so I could pay for the drinks we had.

She then put down the menu, but I still paid for the drinks.

Did you bang though?

WIA

Quote: (10-08-2014 10:04 AM)Giovonny Wrote:  

Quote: (10-08-2014 01:37 AM)Veloce Wrote:  

she orders a $22 glass of champagne

How many of these would you pay for on a first date?

2?, 3?, 4?

The correct answer should be zero.

Quote: (10-08-2014 12:25 PM)Benoit Wrote:  

Quote: (10-08-2014 12:12 PM)Mujeriego Wrote:  

You wouldn't be on a date with her if you weren't interested in banging. Why take a girl out of the running over her eating schedule?

It's not some black or white thing, just something I consider a red flag.

Surely everyone has been out with someone who said or did something that turned you completely off them.

I've been turned off by something a girl did while we were out, but not enough to stop trying to bang her .

Quote: (10-08-2014 04:12 PM)Mujeriego Wrote:  

Quote: (10-08-2014 12:25 PM)Benoit Wrote:  

Quote: (10-08-2014 12:12 PM)Mujeriego Wrote:  

You wouldn't be on a date with her if you weren't interested in banging. Why take a girl out of the running over her eating schedule?

It's not some black or white thing, just something I consider a red flag.

Surely everyone has been out with someone who said or did something that turned you completely off them.

I've been turned off by something a girl did while we were out, but not enough to stop trying to bang her .

Nothing stops me! Appetizer? 22 dollar Champagne? Nothing!!!

What I was trying to teach here is that if you are worried about stuff like that you're probably worried about 10,000 things at the same time. If you are cool and fun the tang will fall from the sky.

I've been at this shit since American girls were skinny, feminine and were embarrassed to eat in front of you except maybe take one or two french fries from you if they were starving.

Quote: (10-08-2014 04:35 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

I've been at this shit since American girls were skinny, feminine and were embarrassed to eat in front of you except maybe take one or two french fries from you if they were starving.

That's a great point and something younger guys don't know. American girls weren't always like they are now; they used to be similar to how I see guys describing Euro and Asian girls now.

If you took a girl to dinner she would make a point of ordering something not too heavy and eat maybe half of it. If you wanted to order some bar food she wouldn't want her own , she would say "I'll just pick at yours" or similar. Sometimes they wouldn't eat at all. Being a light eater was an important part of being feminine; a girl wouldn't think of eating like a man. And guess what-they weren't fat. It was unusual to see a significantly overweight young woman and the behemoths you see everywhere now were rare like circus freaks. Trailer park type girls were rail thin and often hot, not fat as teenagers as they often are now.

These days I see girls digging into Super Nacho Plates like they just got out of prison.

Quote: (10-09-2014 03:44 PM)MrXY Wrote:  

That's a great point and something younger guys don't know. American girls weren't always like they are now; they used to be similar to how I see guys describing Euro and Asian girls now.

If you took a girl to dinner she would make a point of ordering something not too heavy and eat maybe half of it. If you wanted to order some bar food she wouldn't want her own , she would say "I'll just pick at yours" or similar. Sometimes they wouldn't eat at all. Being a light eater was an important part of being feminine; a girl wouldn't think of eating like a man. And guess what-they weren't fat. It was unusual to see a significantly overweight young woman and the behemoths you see everywhere now were rare like circus freaks. Trailer park type girls were rail thin and often hot, not fat as teenagers as they often are now.

These days I see girls digging into Super Nacho Plates like they just got out of prison.

This is what I was trying to get at when saying modern women are always 'grazing'. In any kind of office workplace, they're snacking at their desks for most of the day, whilst filling up on terrible fattening food during the designated breaks, because there's always one or more officer 'feeder' women. That's before you factor their fattening coffees into the mix.

The idea that you can eat a meal, then not need to eat for 5+ hours seems alien to them, because they're riding a blood sugar rollercoaster where each thing they eat sends them bottoming out to a place where they immediately need to eat again.

What has considered 'snacking' in my country has changed just within the 43 years of my life.

Take common 'snack' foods in Australia from my childhood: a packet of potato crisps used to be 12 grams in the 70's. It's now 50 grams. A packet of Twisties was 7 grams, now 45. A can of coke used to be 180 mls, then grew to 375 during the 1980's, then started being outsold by their 600 ml bottles during the 1990's.

The average person here seems to be dumpy, fat, unhappy and always eating when they're out and about. People rarely did this when I was young.

Quote: (10-09-2014 03:44 PM)MrXY Wrote:  

Quote: (10-08-2014 04:35 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

I've been at this shit since American girls were skinny, feminine and were embarrassed to eat in front of you except maybe take one or two french fries from you if they were starving.

That's a great point and something younger guys don't know. American girls weren't always like they are now; they used to be similar to how I see guys describing Euro and Asian girls now.

If you took a girl to dinner she would make a point of ordering something not too heavy and eat maybe half of it. If you wanted to order some bar food she wouldn't want her own , she would say "I'll just pick at yours" or similar. Sometimes they wouldn't eat at all. Being a light eater was an important part of being feminine; a girl wouldn't think of eating like a man. And guess what-they weren't fat.

this is very true. I must come off as extra-attractive to feminine girls because when I take them out for drinks & food I generally have to tell them to eat dinner, not have 4 drinks and half a salad.

This is why sushi is key. Plus they generally eat rolls and I get to introduce them to real sushi.

Quote: (10-09-2014 03:44 PM)MrXY Wrote:  

Quote: (10-08-2014 04:35 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

I've been at this shit since American girls were skinny, feminine and were embarrassed to eat in front of you except maybe take one or two french fries from you if they were starving.

That's a great point and something younger guys don't know. American girls weren't always like they are now; they used to be similar to how I see guys describing Euro and Asian girls now.

If you took a girl to dinner she would make a point of ordering something not too heavy and eat maybe half of it. If you wanted to order some bar food she wouldn't want her own , she would say "I'll just pick at yours" or similar. Sometimes they wouldn't eat at all. Being a light eater was an important part of being feminine; a girl wouldn't think of eating like a man. And guess what-they weren't fat. It was unusual to see a significantly overweight young woman and the behemoths you see everywhere now were rare like circus freaks. Trailer park type girls were rail thin and often hot, not fat as teenagers as they often are now.

These days I see girls digging into Super Nacho Plates like they just got out of prison.

They were much skinner way back when. I remember when the trashy trailer park girls were all kinda hotter than the rich girls, and that kept the rich girls in line. Now it's like no holds barred for any type of women in the US to 'let it all hang out' and just chow down all day long. What a joke.

So now they are fat, entitled, boring & disgusting pieces of shit for the most part.

It also sucks how bad the food chain is in the US and how it's ruined people's health and bodies. You can get around it by eating at Whole Foods now if you have enough money to afford it, but relatively few do.

Quote: (10-08-2014 03:11 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

Quote: (10-08-2014 12:19 PM)Blaze Frazier Wrote:  

This nearly came up last night on a first date.

As she went for the food menu, I asked the bartender for the check so I could pay for the drinks we had.

She then put down the menu, but I still paid for the drinks.

Did you bang though?

WIA

I regretfully inform you that I didn't. She had work that night.

Quote: (10-09-2014 03:44 PM)MrXY Wrote:  

Quote: (10-08-2014 04:35 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

I've been at this shit since American girls were skinny, feminine and were embarrassed to eat in front of you except maybe take one or two french fries from you if they were starving.

That's a great point and something younger guys don't know. American girls weren't always like they are now; they used to be similar to how I see guys describing Euro and Asian girls now.

If you took a girl to dinner she would make a point of ordering something not too heavy and eat maybe half of it. If you wanted to order some bar food she wouldn't want her own , she would say "I'll just pick at yours" or similar. Sometimes they wouldn't eat at all. Being a light eater was an important part of being feminine; a girl wouldn't think of eating like a man. And guess what-they weren't fat. It was unusual to see a significantly overweight young woman and the behemoths you see everywhere now were rare like circus freaks. Trailer park type girls were rail thin and often hot, not fat as teenagers as they often are now.

These days I see girls digging into Super Nacho Plates like they just got out of prison.

The 70's and 80's saw a huge influx of European immigration. So if "American" women acted different and more feminine back then it's because they were old world European. All the drugs and fast money of the 80's made the next generation into the fat sloppy whores we all know today.

No- I was referring to my experience with Southern girls, they weren't immigrants.

The culture and the way women act has changed radically in the last thirty years.

Quote: (10-08-2014 03:42 AM)Benoit Wrote:  

Quote: (10-08-2014 01:37 AM)Veloce Wrote:  

If a girl insists on eating, it means she has a poor relationship with food. Food should not be a big deal. It should not be an incentive. Normal people eat meals without fanfare or treating a meal out as some sort of currency. Most girls can't cook or feed themselves, I get that. I'll lose bangs for not taking girls out to dinner, I get that too. Pussy isn't that important to me. Fucking the right kind of girl is much more important to me.
...
Now, with all this in mind, Seamus does bring up a very good point. There are exceptions. In his case, his girl was making it very clear that seeing him was a priority. Most girls after a busy day are too tired for dates. She was doing what it takes to stay energized for the date. Big difference between that and a girl looking for a food handout.

This guy gets it. Anyone who's done any kind of fasting knows that 4-6 hours without eating is nothing.

Think about how long you sleep every day - I've never had to wake up in the middle of the night and eat a bucket of wings or starve.

Women can't fast as easily as men, but that's in the 10+ hour range. I'm generally not going to waste my time on someone who's so disorganised they can't even feed themselves on a regular schedule.

Agreed 100%. Modern humans are obese and unhealthy for a reason.

Not to get off topic but Steve Maxwell breaks it down well(He's huge in the MMA/BJJ/Fitness circle for many years. But in summary he talks about how much people tax their digestion systems in today's world do to easy access to food. In simple terms you don't need to eat so fucking much/often unless maybe your some special athlete.

Seriously? Nine pages of discussion about the social, economic and psychological implications of women ordering appetizers while on a date?

Naughty Nomad can't even come close.