I know a few playas who know nothing about PUA and all this game that we discuss on here. I've asked them what their secret is and they all say talk to as many girls as you can and don't fall in love. You'll eventually get better from trial and error. Do you think this is really all you need to do? Where would you be if you never found Roosh's forum or if all the PUA shit never came around?

Game is game, as far as I'm concerned, and on that note, I wouldn't lump Roosh in with the whole "PUA" thing in the classical sense (mystery method, lovesystems, etc.). Yeah some guys are more naturally intuitive or comfortable with women, maybe they learned through trial and error, or were just more "aware" of things that worked and didn't work.

A lot of guys (myself included at one point) are just so clueless when it comes to women, that game gives them a frame work or jump start to get out there in the field and start making attempts/efforts. Roosh's advice and anecdotes, really helped put me in the right mindset, and that I was being waaay too passive/beta with women, and it wasn't attracting them, if anything it was off putting. I realized, that I need to be more pro-active, and not worry and care so much about rejection, looking stupid, etc., like I used to.

Also I think there are certain methods that help foster attraction, sexual tension, and seduction that can be found in the "PUA community", such as well executed "negs" (normally in the form of a backhanded compliment), the "cocky-funny" attitude, teasing girls, "push-pull", escalating "kino", flirting with various girls to create interest, demonstrating "high value", etc. These are all concepts that are found in "PUA" teachings and can be effective if used impeccably and naturally, not like some pre-programed robot.

some guys are just naturally good at it, just like how some people have a tendency to be good in some things and bad in others. for example, i'm a musician. almost anyone can learn to play an instrument. you can either learn it yourself or have someone teach you. either way, you still have the basic goal. some who take music lessons may learn music theory, while a self-taught musician may not know these or might not even know how to read music. can he learn those things? sure he can. does he need to? no. game is just a supplement to those of us who weren't born to be naturally good with women.

those guys are correct, as roosh's blog post "the secret to getting laid" covers the exact same thing. approaching lots of women is the real secret. can you get away with just doing that? i don't know. regardless, other facets of game help immensely.

The last 3 relationships I fell into bass-ackwards because I did all the right things without knowing what I was doing or why it was working. Once in the relationships, I was myself with these women and they saw that I didn't really know what I was doing, failing multiple shit-tests. So they bounced.

Now that I know women fall for dumb shit time and time again, it kinda turns me off on the whole process. But I still want to get laid on a regular basis and have more relationships. Thing is putting this knowledge into practice hasn't worked for me, the shit-tests come fast and furious before sex even enters the picture nowadays.

I'd be a very good looking video game playing herb

Without game, I would still be a huge beta. Yes, I could find out through trial or error, but I would not because I would not consider it even possible. The biggest enemy is not so much lack of skill as lack of conviction, at least it was in my case (I will eventually find someone who loves me... yeah right). If I had clung to that, I would have still been a virgin.

http://www.rooshv.com/the-myth-of-the-natural

Even before I "discovered" game, I was improving naturally on my own because I wanted it so bad. It just put me on the fast track to tons of pussy and skill with women. Think of it as similar to the way Roosh spent years approaching non-stop, learning the hard way.

Quote: (08-09-2011 06:39 AM)Gmac Wrote:  

http://www.rooshv.com/the-myth-of-the-natural

Even before I "discovered" game, I was improving naturally on my own because I wanted it so bad. It just put me on the fast track to tons of pussy and skill with women. Think of it as similar to the way Roosh spent years approaching non-stop, learning the hard way.

This is how most of in in our 30's learned. The school of hard knocks. I learned the "2 a day" rule back in '97, from a heavy player. There was no book, bootcamps, or seminars, just the strong desire to get laid.

Approaching women is like bee-keeping. You're gonna get stung, but the honey will keep you coming back for more. And over time, the stings will become almost unnoticeable.

Actually, I thought this site (and still do) was about game INCLUDING natural game. I come from the "throw a bunch of rocks at a target" mindset where I would just holla at chicks until I get one. I have had 1-for-15 nights, 2-for-10 nights and a few 7-for-8 nights. Of course, I tweaked my approach and other factors as I got older and more income.

I gotta learn game someday. I could only imagine what it would do to my natural way of fucking already.

Mixx

"Natural game" does not exist. It's a myth. Why? Because there is only ONE form of game:

Quote: (08-09-2011 12:51 AM)houston Wrote:  

You'll eventually get better from trial and error.

Trial and error. That's it. That's how all "naturals" learned their game. And guess what? That's how all PUAs learned their game, too. That's exactly what Mystery did for many years, and the way how he developed his method. Even if you take MM as a guide, you still have to do trial and error yourself.

There is only this ONE way, and therefore differenciating between "naturals" and "PUAs" makes no sense.

I have a good friend who is very successful with women. He has never heard of PUA stuff, so many would consider him a "natural". I once asked him how he became so good with women. He told me that during his youth, he sucked with women and he suffered from social anxiety. He was too afraid to approach. So he went to a psychologist.

This psychologist took my friend out to the street, where he should approach women. So he learned approaching. Afterwards the psychologist told him to improve his conversational skills and to speak with a flirty vibe. After that my friend learned from him how to dance and where to touch, and how to increase the touching. That's how he learned what PUAs call "escalation".

Some so-called "naturals" need a psychologist and a confrontation theapy like this. Others have an older brother or a cousin who teaches them. Others learn it from their fathers, or from good friends.

But I have never met any "natural" who had a "natural" ability (in the strict sense) to be good with women. They all have LEARNED it. That's what I mean by saying that "naturals" don't exist.

Agree with Mouse

Quote:Quote:

talk to as many girls as you can and don't fall in love. You'll eventually get better from trial and error.

This is the essence of game.

Quote: (08-09-2011 12:51 AM)houston Wrote:  

I've asked them what their secret is and they all say talk to as many girls as you can and don't fall in love. You'll eventually get better from trial and error. Do you think this is really all you need to do? Where would you be if you never found Roosh's forum or if all the PUA shit never came around?

When you're first starting out it's difficult to think that's all you have to do. For me, I needed some sort of outline or frame work because I was too clueless to know what was going. 8-10 years ago I heard of 'game' from my older friends, but I really had no idea how to apply it. I wasn't a virgin, but I was still pretty unskilled.

What helped me at the beginning that many years ago was just having balls. I remember being 15 years old and feeling like shit because I didn't have girlfriend. So I asked this girl out in HS and she rejected me but I didn't give a shit. I remember walking home from school and I felt like a champion, because I actually had the balls to approach. From then on I would just go at it by myself. I remember being 17 on summer vacation from HS before starting college and driving to the mall by myself and approaching, pretty badly I might add. I didn't even get any numbers. The farthest I got was like a quick conversation.

Fast forward to college and I was still shy and introverted as hell, I didn't need to approach that much because I had friends in frats and shit, so I would go to their parties and I'd get a makeout here and there, eventually I got some lays, but it was a very very difficult road. I can not emphasize that enough. There were times especially between the ages of 18-22 where I was pretty discouraged about my progress. Throw a few LTRs in there and it fucks with your progress.

Anyway to tell you how bad it was for me, I actually was one of those guys who went to a psychologist and he gave me similar advice to what Mouse posted. Through my twenties though I got better and better, but I always wanted to improve, I got good at the online thing, found Roosh took his workshop and improved, and just kept at it. I'm still not where I want to be but it's a night and day difference now to myself 10 years ago. In fact it's hilarious to me when some guys think that I have 'game' if only they would have known me ten years ago.

Being in the game has been one of the best things that has happened to me in my life.

It taught me to embrace and control my fears and anxiety.

It taught me how to be persistent and the value of hard work.

It helped me become more self-confident and outgoing.

It helped me to bring out the social, cool, and funny guy I always was.

It allowed me to have lots of great times with girls.

It's given me hilarious stories to tell.

It's taught me to seize the moment and opportunities because they might be gone in a second.

So to answer your question, I don't know where I would be without game, I'd probably be one of those guys complaining about never being able to get laid.

There's been a shitload of ups and downs, but I wouldn't trade the bumpy ride for anything. Sometimes you have to go through shit to get the gold.

If I'd never discovered the forum I'd still be 'ok', my brother has given me tons of pointers, but there probably would still be some major flaws that I wouldn't have been able to identify so quickly and virtually painlessly.

Basically this forum saved me time, and what more can you ask for?

Had to learn game the hard way, through trial and error. Never had a problem talking to girls, or being flirted with by girls. My issue was with all the psychological manipulation stuff they pull.

Talking to girls is not enough. You can talk to them as some weak-ass beta chode, and eventually be their boyfriend. But what's the use in that?

Inner game is really about being tough through the moments that threaten to cut your heart out.

I had my London game pretty down packed. Most of the London guys I know were just raw and just used their street swag to impress women. I've always had the intellectual front so I just mixed the street swag (faking it) with the intellectual to hit those middle class lizards.
It was merely just approaching lots and lots of women from anywhere and going on loads of dates, banging a few and learning who are real prospects and who are wasters.

I opened up on a waitress in Nandos who viciously questioned why I wanted her number. We went out on a date however and she also invited me to her home.

My point is, I was doing major day game and club game in the UK. Just working the numbers.

I joined Roosh's forum because I needed intel on DR. I had never been to a foreign country (third world at that) where I don't speak the language on my own and I felt I needed enough information that I don't get myself into an unnecessary bind.

Basically, the Roosh forum members have confirmed some of the things I already knew i.e. when to push for the close and when a lizard is just wasting a person's time.

I wouldn't say I needed game in London but over here in Toronto, I was perpetually confused by my results.

But now I know the truth in cracking Toronto.

Thanks, Roosh.

^^

Ok, so now that you know how crack Toronto, care to let us in on the secret?

Cuz I keep hearing average looking girls on Toronto get treated like A-list celebrities by very good looking guys who SHOULD have much better options!




Mixx

Quote: (08-10-2011 01:44 PM)MiXX Wrote:  

^^

Ok, so now that you know how crack Toronto, care to let us in on the secret?

Cuz I keep hearing average looking girls on Toronto get treated like A-list celebrities by very good looking guys who SHOULD have much better options!


Mixx

The secret in Toronto is unfortunately to approach loads and loads of women.
Have a lot of women running in the background because the women you are actively working on will flake.

It's unfortunaetly a numbers game in Toronto. This means for the traveller like yourself, Senor Mixx, it may not be so rewarding if you only have two-three nights to get the slay.

You have to be ruthless with yours. I know it doesn't sound like much of a secret but really that's all I can gather from Toronto. I've gamed with dudes who were slaughtering lizards in all other cities and ran adry in Toronto.

Either that or don't fcuk with them. Save your money from clubbing in Toronto (day game is always fine, you can't go wrong with day game) and just spend it every two-three weeks in hitting surrounding cities (half an hour drive out).

I am open to any other people who have success in Toronto.

I have never had any issues in Toronto. In fact, I think it is a pseudo "gold mine". (Which is why I want to hit Montreal, possibly Sept).

I think we have gone over this before Moma, and I think you said they react better to big city Americans.

It could be that girls dig my "style" there: Custom Suited, Playboy steez.

To me, Toronto has:

Solid nightspots (open late as well)
Good logistics
Good restaurants for posting up
Good ratios
Girls have the door open
Very Docile male population

What more could you want?

It is not like girls were "throwing themselves at me" (like some people on here talk about) but the set up was there, where I could work the chess game.

That's really all I ask for: a decent chess board.

(Keep in mind, I have been there when there was great weather).

Quote: (08-10-2011 01:55 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

I have never had any issues in Toronto.

I think we have gone over this before Moma, and I think you said they react better to big city Americans.

It could be that girls dig my "style" there: Custom Suited, Playboy steez.

To me, Toronto has:

Solid nightspots
Good logistics
Good restaurants for posting up
Good ratios
Very Docile male population

What more could you want?

(Keep in mind, I have been there when there was great weather).

Oh yea, I forgot, all the chicks I know have been banged out by American guys. Canada has a secret hard on for Americans.

One of my boys drove up from NYC, rented a car that had Virginia plates and cats were showing excessive love.

So, I guess, one could say that, if they can convincingly display Americanism, they could close easier than regular Toronto cats.

I will experiment with this for a solid month and monitor my closes.

Americans also do well in London, England.

You make a strong point about the docile male population. When I first arrived here from London via US, I was in it to win it. I hit a club, posted up on the wall for about 30 mins to see how the dot cats do it.
I saw zero action even though this club was packed with brothas. I thought fcuk it and I started scooping dymes from out of the crowd. Brothas looked at me but made zero moves. I collected about five numbers, got a few letdowns.

Wondered afterwards why I never see any solid approaches, and only weak ass beta mode two entries.

I see why now.

P.S. I don't think there is any need for custom suits in Toronto *cackles scathingly at gmanifesto*

"P.S. I don't think there is any need for custom suits in Toronto *cackles scathingly at gmanifesto*

There is no need to be smooth as f*ck either.

But I don't like leaving anything to chance.

Remember, you asked, "I am open to any other people who have success in Toronto."

I like to hit cities hard with all my ammunition and leave the competition mangled and bruised.

Come hard to the hole (so to speak) Custom Suited and you can literally decapitate the competition there.

Every time I have been there, I have come at that place like a Typhoon. Hard hitting and I am out of there.

That is how I like to do it anyway. To each there own.

Quote: (08-10-2011 02:04 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

"P.S. I don't think there is any need for custom suits in Toronto *cackles scathingly at gmanifesto*

There is no need to be smooth as f*ck either.

But I don't like leaving anything to chance.

Remember, you asked, "I am open to any other people who have success in Toronto."

I like to hit cities hard with all my ammunition and leave the competition mangled and bruised.

Come hard to the hole (so to speak) Custom Suited and you can literally decapitate the competition there.

Every time I have been there, I have come at that place like a Typhoon. Hard hitting and I am out of there.

That is how I like to do it anyway. To each their own.

I am joking bro, I just think it's interesting that you go on about custom suits and smokes for EVERY single venue. You are so absolute on it that if my willpower wasn't strong, I swear I'd go and stack up on some Marlboros for the rest of the year.

However, I am definitely all about rocking a custom suit and being booted with a Cuban to match.


I love looking smooth. It seperates the flakes and allows the real match to begin.

I hear you on dat.

Question: How many Custom suits do you feel is reasonable for a playa who is looking to put out a medium amount of coin?
Reason being, I don't like to be the cat who is seen rocking the same damn outfit over and over again.
I feel 5 is a good number...

Moma -

Ha.

"I just think it's interesting that you go on about custom suits and smokes for EVERY single venue."

Just to keep the record straight, I haven't rocked too many Custom Suits this summer. (I have been working the topless beaches of Spain. Although I will rock one tonight). However, Toronto in my humble opinion is with out a doubt, Suited Down Turf.

Now, smokes?

Yeah, every venue.

Some people are natural athletes. You all knew that kid who could run fast and carry a ball without really practicing. He just picked up the skills without trying.

Same thing at the gym. I know guys who after three months in the gym look better than most guys do after years. This is especially true of black guys. Take a natural black guy and he'll be bigger than almost every guy, after just a a year of hard work.

Yet you know who the best coaches are? It's never the naturals, since naturals didn't learn anything. It's the guys who busted their asses learning the skills. While these hard workers often never reach the level of naturals, they are the best coaches.

I never ask a natural for advice on anything. They haven't had to break things down for themselves. They just picked it all up.

Now take a guy who learned things the hard way (like Roosh), and give him a natural....That's when you create a Michael Jordon of game.