@BlurredSevens Well, I may be jaded but I prefer to think of myself as a realist. Where in the US do you live?

Quote: (06-05-2014 04:28 PM)Travesty444 Wrote:  

^ @BlurredSevens

Can you point to a post or explain skipping dating for situations like daygaming where you can only get a # due to time constraints?

Are you saying if she won't come directly
to your place for drinks or food you
always next her?

I get online sluts wanting to come straight over that is a different ball game though.

Krauser's "Day Game Mastery" book has a phenomenal section on how to run day game with strong sexual intent. It's one of the best breakdowns of any Game topic I have read.

I wrote about "Zero Date Bangs" on the forum. Soup wrote a good thread called "Direct Fresh."

And no, I don't "next" any girl. If she gave me her number, she wants to bang me. The way I see it, if we haven't banged, then either I've been too busy or our schedules just haven't lined up yet. Or I ran bad game on her. Regardless, I consider it my fault.

I would like to see Krauser come to US and achieve the same results he gets from Gaming FSU girls. FSU girls are a walk in the park compared to Americans. I am not saying that Game is not important or doesn't work. What I am saying is that is becoming less and less effective or the amount of effort you have to put in is getting out of hand with decent looking American girls. How many guys have the time and energy to devote to Game and girls like Krauser or Roosh. These guys basically dedicate their whole life to this but I suppose that is what it takes these days...

@B7s

You said you are out of most girls' league.

I see your tight text game and give you props.

Are you a male 8+ in looks? The evidence points to it. Especially if you have mainly attractive Tinder girls willingly coming over with such a high rate.

Quote: (03-06-2014 03:11 AM)soup Wrote:  

In America these days, game has essentially boiled down attraction. The rest is just don't fuck it up game.

For once soup and I are in complete agreement on something. If her attraction to you isn't above 80% you will be dealing with a flakey girl AND she will decide how attractive you are before you even open your mouth - so verbal game doesn't even come into play. If it's somewhere between 50 - 80% then you can use Game to try and increase it but she will still be flakey. If she's is below 50% I don't believe you can turn things around unless you drastically change your look.

Roosh also addressed this topic here and he's talking about European girls: http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-30916.html

Quote: (06-05-2014 04:10 PM)BlurredSevens Wrote:  

Why are you even going on dates? I swear to god sometimes I feel like I am talking to a wall on this forum.

... Krauser's "Day Game Mastery" book has a phenomenal section on how to run day game with strong sexual intent. It's one of the best breakdowns of any Game topic I have read.

Krauser's book also has a whole section on dates. He spends a few pages on SDL but also says quality girls are worth seeing again so there's no need to rush the situation. Granted FSU girls are a different beast to American girls and Krauser's tweets on SNL/SDL aren't uncommon. Not everyone runs online game as their bread and butter.

Quote: (06-05-2014 05:00 PM)BlurredSevens Wrote:  

Girls don't flirt with you unless they WANT to bang you! You think this shit is a game? It's not. It's animal instinct and animal nature. If she's flirting and gives you her number, then my friend the bang is yours to lose. She's not going to dick around while you try to tell her what a cool guy you are. You have a chance to engage her emotionally and then bang her and that is it. So get after it!

.... And no, I don't "next" any girl. If she gave me her number, she wants to bang me. The way I see it, if we haven't banged, then either I've been too busy or our schedules just haven't lined up yet. Or I ran bad game on her. Regardless, I consider it my fault.

The longer it's drawn out with an American girl, the more it becomes 'yours to lose'. I agree that you have to go for the kill, which means pushing for bang ASAP. She'll flirt with you one second and then cool off by tomorrow. The reason people bitch about iphones and culture wars is because sustaining an American girl's attention is getting more and more difficult. You're quite right about reducing your variables: logistics, captivating online profile; move-along-the-process texts. Bang. That's great if you can make it work fast. But what happens with those dormant numbers? What happens if you went for the kill but the deer got away... you still have its scent, but a bit faint. Do you run after the faint stench of fear; or do you turn around and get the other slab of meat a few meters down?

I'm a fan of deleting numbers. It frees up my mind to 'stock up'. I like Roosh's method of one restart text; if she doesn't ping back, throw it away. This whole jiu jitsu texting move seems unnecessary and the cause of most of these flake headaches. Better that its yours to lose after 1-2 texts than a month long tennis match (with fouls).

Say you get a number that's not getting closed soon. If a girl walks into a dealership and says "I'll think about it", she's not buying. Roosh demonstrated this with his motorcycle ad in Bang. Get it while it lasts. Attraction is a window that doesn't stay open. You go for the kill by acting as soon as possible.

I think trying to convert dormant numbers leads to the weakening of one's inner game. Nexting a girl and going out and for a new one strengthens it. "Abundance" is recognizing that not everyone is a buyer, and there ARE people who come for the coffee and balloons because... it's free and requires no effort other than smiling. How many of us have tried free samples with no intention of buying? Sales plays on people's emotions, but some people have their emotions in check. The notion that Anglo-American girls are "masculine" is because they think LOGICALLY (convulted logic sure, but still "forebrain"). When they're drunk they throw that out the window, hence why they need packs to monitor each other, otherwise they might hook up in 5 seconds.

This is why I find daygaming American girls frustrating and why supplementing with night game works out better for me. The buying temperature is there at night (her friends know this, hi cockblocks.) while in the daytime you have to rev it up a little more. If it's not possible to i-date a girl and you have to get a #, only to have her flake, and this happens repeatedly, it gets frustrating. Hence the outlet here to bitch. Krauser even mentions at the end of his book the ups and downs associated with all this. It's not a limiting belief, sometimes things just suck. We talk about it, acknowledge it, and move on, making tweaks along the way.

And like a broken record, daygaming foreign girls is simply more pleasant. Krauser's caricature of an American girl and his explaining of the frame crush mirror very much how American style game works. It's more brutal, dismissive and bluntly getting to the point. There's not so much a dance as a verbal sparring match. Even when he's talking about sexual intent and dirty day game, it sounds fun and playful. Contrast the writing involving American girls sounds more annoyed and unimpressed. There's a wiring problem in American girls that some guys seem to get with little issues, and other guys can't (or won't). Maybe it's an introversion/extraversion thing.

I have the feeling blurred seven is a good looking guy. I get the impression nomad is an average looking guy.

We have to remember that average and good looking guys have a completely different life experience. An average guy taking advice from a good looking guy can be like taking advice from a girl. I'm just saying this in general, not toward blurredseven. I've found tall good looking guys to be every bit as solipsistic if not worse than females. Many of them are so used to getting randomly flirted with and eye fucked that it never even occurs to them that this is not normal and that most men do not get random smiles and flirting from women.

If good looking guys woke up tomorrow looking like Flava Flav, they'd then realize their game had little to do with creating attraction. Its main utility was to amplify attraction that was already there and avoid any beta mistakes and logistical failures that would lose the bang. Anyone that thinks a short, ugly guy is gonna push/pull and neg his way to sexual abundance is drinking the koolaid.

I don't consider myself ugly but I certainly won't be winning any modeling contracts I am fairly average in body and might be considered a bit above average in face but that seem to depend on the girl to a great extent. I certainly don't have girls giving me looks when I walk into some place. Plus I am not white, and in a place like Miami, that is a big disadvantage (Latin girls prefer white guys). I have some friends that are good looking and over 6 ft. tall. These guys literally do not have to do anything to get girls. Girls literally throw themselves at them. My Game is 10 times better than theirs and while I can get better looking girls than them I have to work 10 times harder and deal with much high numbers in every respect to get one. Blurr is OK, I am willing to bet he's young, and as they say full of piss and vinegar One thing I will agree about, a negative attitude won't help you in any way. While I may come across as negative at times, it is just me trying to paint a realistic picture of what it is like out there for the average guy. Clint Barton in NYC is a fairly average guy looks wise and does well so it is possible - given the right location.

I also make it rather difficult on myself by primarily targeting high end girls. If I was to shift my focus to the 4 - 6 range things would be easier I imagine.

If you want to know about how good looking you are just put a good photo of yourself on tinder and see how many matches you get. I think I have gotten two matches in a month and neither of them responded to my messages. (And this is with me Liking every single girl I was shown.) In contrast one of my good looking friends closed his POF account because he was getting too many girls and it was becoming too much to handle - I shit you not.

Quote: (06-05-2014 02:23 PM)RealityCheck Wrote:  

Quote: (06-05-2014 09:41 AM)Biologist Wrote:  

If a woman flakes and you call her out on it, this just indicates that your value is lower than her's because you want her attention.

I think this is the hardest thing to accept, but it's a fundamental truth. As guys we're inclined to call people out on their bad behavior, often in a constructive way. This is likely what a mature guy would want his friends to do for him.

But women will never take responsibility for their shitty behavior, so calling them out is just devaluing yourself. At the end of the day, if a girl flakes and it truly bothers you, then you had more to lose than she did. I struggle with this shit all the time, but in a buyer's market you have to have a thick skin and not take this shit personally.

I dont think this is true at all, the thing i struggle the most with is building enough comfort not attraction, i can get girls interest but then when i try to get them to come home with me, or out on a date they come up with shit like, i dont really know you, it would be awkward if its just the two of us and shit like that, i cant do that youre a stranger!. (See girls that brings friends on a date).

Thats why you see girls dating guys below their league sometimes, because they have met them through social circle. Yes it sounds stupid, but thats the kind of shit these girls have in their heads.

You can see this in tons of tinder threads all over the internet, you can go straight into sex talk with these girls, but when its time to meet, they dissapear.

At the end its just like most guys in here said, they didnt really want to meet someone they just wanted attention from high value men.

@Dog24 I agree. A girl will go out with a guy from her social circle that she feels comfortable with before you she goes out with a strange guy she finds more attractive. For a girl her comfort and secure is paramount to sexual attraction up to point. If she really finds you hot, like above 80% attraction level, then she will more likely act on it. But there are ways to build comfort whereas it's very difficult to build attraction. One easy way to build comfort is to talk to them like you are old friends already. Mimic the way they talk and their body language e.g. rate of speech and loudness. Establish things you have in common and focus on them. Let them talk about themselves and don't bring up topics like religion and politics.

How to to respond to girls from online dating that flake on you.

We made plans on Sunday to hangout on Thursday. (I know huge mistake but to make plans that far out but it was my only option)

We exchange a few texts throughout the week and she stills seems excited to hangout. I text her today a specific time and location and I get.....

"I can't make it tonight. Something came up. Sorry!"


In the past I would just not respond and "next her" but is that really the best course of action?

It is the best course. I had an OKC flake last Sunday saying she was helping her grandmother out and should have texted me sooner. I said ok, and haven't talked to her since. Keep in mind this was after I already messed up by agreeing to reschedule to Sunday, so in reality it wasn't so much as flake as it was a bad play on my part I guess.

EDIT: As far as the average vs good looking guy thing goes, I agree, but some location plays a huge role. I posted before, I can get 9-10's in BC in person or off of Tinder, but I can barely pull 6-7s in Seattle. It appears each city/area has different tastes. Oh, and I am an 8+.

@Teddy She didn't bother to reschedule did she? Then she's not interested in you.

@Teddy

I had a girl that I was supposed to go hiking with send the same text to me. A few hours after she flaked I ended up going to some meetup group event, and she was there. It was pretty fuckin awkward, but I didn't say anything. She sounded like she was excited too, but I know how short their attention spans are.

Just expecting these women to be flakey cunts from the beginning has made things a lot easier.

An American woman today would rather say anything except that she doesn't want to go out with you. This is why you cannot listen to what she says, you have to look at what she does. Until she shows up, you have to assume everything she says is BS. I have had women ask me out and flake.

Ok, I've have gone back and thought about the girls that weren't flaky and the ones that were. The one thing I noticed was that the more I wanted a girl the less likely she was to be flaky. Now, I am talking about really being into a girl, like over 90%. I think somehow my interest level is changing my behavior in some subtle ways and sub-communicating it. This would explain why I do well with 8+ girls and terrible with average girls. I simply want the 8+ girls more. The more I want a girl the more likely I am to get her. This all seems to be related to being authentic. When I really want a girl, I get real. When I just think a girl is somewhat attractive, I use Game to cover my half-ass desire and somehow this comes through as being less authentic. So, I think being authentic can reduce flaking. It doesn't matter whether you go direct or indirect it matters more how authentic you are and the more attracted I am to a girl the more authentic/real I become and this reduces her flakiness.

Quote: (06-06-2014 10:54 AM)Nomad77 Wrote:  

Ok, I've have gone back and thought about the girls that weren't flaky and the ones that were. The one thing I noticed was that the more I wanted a girl the less likely she was to be flaky. Now, I am talking about really being into a girl, like over 90%. I think somehow my interest level is changing my behavior in some subtle ways and sub-communicating it. This would explain why I do well with 8+ girls and terrible with average girls. I simply want the 8+ girls more. The more I want a girl the more likely I am to get her. This all seems to be related to being authentic. When I really want a girl, I get real. When I just think a girl is somewhat attractive, I use Game to cover my half-ass desire and somehow this comes through as me being less authentic. So, I think being authentic can reduce flaking. It doesn't matter whether you go direct or indirect it matters more how authentic you are.

You should put out a hard numbers sheet and note the flakes from a mathematical standpoint. Note how you feel about each lizard and then note the flake levels. Numbers don't lie.

Quote: (06-05-2014 03:31 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  

So, how do you detect when a girl is really interested vs just wanting your attention?

You push the interaction as far as possible.

Touch her. Try to isolate her from her friends. Try to kiss her.

Try to take her home.

The more of these things she lets you do, the greater the chance that she is into you.

Be aggressive

Quote:Quote:

---

Also,

Watch her eyes..

Does she look you in the face or does she constantly scan the room?

Watch her body language..

Does her body face you or does she often turn away form you?

Does she touch you?

Watch her phone..

Does she constantly check her phone when she is talking to you?

These clues will help give you an idea..

---

That said, she still may only be in to you for that night.

There is no guarantee that she will want to party with you, hang out with you, flirt with you, dance with you, or have sex with you again.

If you meet girls at parties, you have to expect that they will be in a partying type of mind set.

---

This is another reason I prefer day game. When I meet them, they are in their normal, everyday mode, not crazy, party mode.

This makes it easier for me to get a sense of whether or not I really have a chance.

Quote: (06-05-2014 04:48 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  

So what Gio is saying here is that you have no choice but to put up with all of the BS.

I'm not saying that!

We always have choices.

I don't even do night game. It's a waste of time to me.

My choice is day game.

Get to a college campus.
Use "Sugar Daddy" websites
Travel
Find a better "FishBowl"

We always have options.

@Gio Ok, I can agree with that but in many instances you cannot push the interaction. For example, these last two girls: one was a cashier at a car dealership the other a cashier at a restaurant. In many instances, you will only have enough time to talk to the girl for a few minutes and pull a number. How do you screen in those situations? Same with college girls, I usually catch them going to some class or studying for some class. It's very rare where I run into a girl that's not busy doing something.

Quote: (06-06-2014 02:01 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  

you will only have enough time to talk to the girl for a few minutes

How do you screen in those situations?

Very simple.

Try to get her number..

If she gives it to you, you have a chance.

If she doesn't, you only wasted a few minutes.

Then, text her.

If she replies, you have a chance.

If she doesn't, you only wasted a few seconds.

lol, ok but I feel that how authentic you are in the approach can make a big difference in whether she replies or not.

Quote: (06-06-2014 02:23 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  

I feel that how authentic you are in the approach can make a big difference in whether she replies or not.

Many things can make a difference.

How attractive you are to her..?

How interesting you are to her..?

How emotionally engaging you are to her..?

How funny you are to her..?

Her mood and attitude..?

Your level of game..?

Is she single?

If you want her, you must approach her.

Get her number and ask her out.

That is the best way to "screen".

Lately I have been flaked post first date a lot, specially with sub-25, normal girls. I came to the conclusion that even young women who are not into club and whoring culture have become too addicted to immediate attention and are too distant from an actual realationship with a man, either sexual or sentimental.

I rarely get flaked, pre or post first date by women over 25. That may be because they are near or have hit the Wall (and, thus, must lower their standards) but also because they got their first smartphone at 24 instead of 19.

Well, it could also be your perceived age. If the girls after meeting you feel you are too old for them...

Quote: (06-06-2014 10:54 AM)Nomad77 Wrote:  

Ok, I've have gone back and thought about the girls that weren't flaky and the ones that were. The one thing I noticed was that the more I wanted a girl the less likely she was to be flaky. Now, I am talking about really being into a girl, like over 90%. I think somehow my interest level is changing my behavior in some subtle ways and sub-communicating it. This would explain why I do well with 8+ girls and terrible with average girls. I simply want the 8+ girls more. The more I want a girl the more likely I am to get her. This all seems to be related to being authentic. When I really want a girl, I get real. When I just think a girl is somewhat attractive, I use Game to cover my half-ass desire and somehow this comes through as being less authentic. So, I think being authentic can reduce flaking. It doesn't matter whether you go direct or indirect it matters more how authentic you are and the more attracted I am to a girl the more authentic/real I become and this reduces her flakiness.

There is a growing realm of scientific research that actually backs up your observation.

It is called a mirror neuron: http://www.apa.org/monitor/oct05/mirror.aspx.

Essentially, the girls are "reflecting back" your own interest in them.

I have noticed this myself. When I am more sexually aggressive with a girl and she is interested in me, she will be more sexual in turn.