Full disclosure: I'm an Englishman who has lived in America for about two years. I spent a year on study abroad on a small southern American university. Also, I have lived in New York, Tennessee and Los Angeles, and I am planning to go back to Los Angeles for work in September.


I like American girls. I really do. Maybe I'm biased because the ones I went to school with, and to a lesser extent, worked with, tripped over themselves because of my accent. Or maybe because I'm a natural lesser Alpha.

Make no mistake - a lot of American girls are disgusting fat princesses who deserve to be pumped, dumped, discarded and never thought about again. I'm not saying that that is not true. But I've dated five women really seriously in my life. Two of those girls were American - and they are unquestionably my favorites. Cooked for me, looked after me when I was ill, were nice to my little sister when they met her (my sister has down syndrome). Sweet and polite. One used to bake me cookies at 1am if I was hungry after a night out, or cook me some eggs if I was hungry after the gym.

I should also say that they were both Southern belles, and debutantes at that, so they both had visions of traditional masculine/gender roles. But still, I think that guys on this board, and in the manosphere generally, focus overwhelmingly on the negative when it comes to American women.

On the other hand, I recognize my sample size is tiny, and my argument is conditioned to hell, so maybe I'm wrong. Thoughts?

Interesting post Sammy. Besides the 2 American women, what other types have you dated? And how long did you date the American women? In my humble experiance American women are usually on their very best (and fake) behavior when they first meet and start dating a guy they think they might like. Then once you start getting comfortable they do a 180 and act like a 13 year old who doesnt know other people exist in the world. If she sticks around.

It's the accent. Some Americans go nuts for British accents. I have some friends in Chicago that are from Durbin South Africa, and they speak English with a slight British accent. I have seen Americans, male and female trip over themselves to kiss their asses. They are looked on as being somehow more intelligent, thoughful, and introspective because of the accent. It's almost embarrassing to watch. Every time a Austin Powers movie would come out their poon consumption went up astronomically. And in the case of Beta men, they bought them drinks and hovered around them so they could raise their status. I became friends with them because they were fellow gun nuts, and loves shooting things as much as I do. Initially we were apprehensive about each other because they're white fom RSA, and I'm Black, but we beame really close friends.
As for the southern girls, I encountered the same thing when I was stationed at Ft. Benning. I had girls all over Georgia, Tennessee, and Alabama that would cook REAL meals for me no matter what hour I arrived at their homes. Southern girls are a Hell of a lot easier to get along with than big city northern girls. You can find the same things in the smaller towns in the mid west. Use that exotic accent of yours to the fullest, but DO NOT allow yourself to fall into the Honey Trap. Stay strong, keep a stiff upper lip, and mow down as many as you can while the plumbing still works.

Those southern belles are the best women in America. Small town and rural American women still have those traditional gender roles. Alot of them think feminism is stupid. These girls are "old school".

Out in California, the best girls are from the smaller farming towns.

The Mexican women from the rural areas will cook for you, wash your clothes, keep the house in order, and never complain. They consider that their job!

Stay out of the big metropolitan cities! That where all the manly women go!

Quote: (05-02-2011 02:14 AM)Sammy Wrote:  

But still, I think that guys on this board, and in the manosphere generally, focus overwhelmingly on the negative when it comes to American women.

On the other hand, I recognize my sample size is tiny, and my argument is conditioned to hell, so maybe I'm wrong. Thoughts?

It is a matter of context and how it can affect one's perspective.

Your observation is correct-the manosphere is extremely negative when it comes to its portrayal of American women. Part of this, however, is due to the fact that much of the writing in the manosphere is centered on the perspective of men who live in larger coastal cities and go to larger universities(where a lot of big city residents flock to for school).

Consider the forum you are on right now. Roosh is a DC native. Consider the man widely viewed as the godfather of the manosphere, Roissy-also a DC native. DC punches well above its weight when it comes to PUAs and manosphere bloggers, as any of the most well known (VK, The Rookie, etc) are from the area. You will notice that most of the other vocal PUAs and manosphere writers tend to come from regions similar to these: New York City, LA, DC, Boston, London to an extent, Toronto and so on.

Within the context of the specific areas they live in, their negative portrayals are significantly more truthful than many optimists would like to believe. These are places where the somewhat cold, darwinian and pessimistic dynamics articulated by these guys about the nature of gender relations are most truthful. It is what they have seen and lived, and thus it is what they believe and articulate.

Roosh, for example, is particularly hard on American girls, and part of that is because he is from DC. Anyone who is familiar with that part of the country will tell you that it is not a very ideal place to be as a single guy for a host of reasons, not the least of which is the attitudes held by many of the women there. Roosh's criticism may seem harsh to many foreigners with experience in slightly less difficult parts of the country, but to most of his followers(most of whom are concentrated in large cultural hubs like Vegas, LA, Toronto, NYC, Miami, Atlanta, DC, Boston and a handful of others) it will seem like he's been living in their shoes for quite some time. The darwinian dynamics of the Venusian arts(read: game) apply most strongly in these geographical contexts. If you want to do well in DC, you'll need to swallow some of the bitter red pills he offers about the nature of women and internalize them, because in that environment things likely are really that bad.

Same for Roissy-his attitude is harsh, but its crucial to dating success in a place like DC.

If you live in a smaller hub(ex: Charleston, Raleigh, Sacramento, Albany, Des Moines) or just a much smaller town away from everything, you'll have a slightly different perspective because the difficult and somewhat harsh trends described in those larger markets apply significantly less. There is also, as has been mentioned, a regional variation. The Northeast(plus DC) and Californian coast have the largest concentration of these negative, pessimistic dynamics in the USA. Toronto, from what I read, is up there as well.

The Southeast as a whole has a much more relaxed dynamic. Even Atlanta, which I listed above as a "hub", is more laid back with a slightly healthier dynamic than what you'd see in DC or NYC, even though it is probably closer to those two examples than other parts of the South.
I would agree with Giovonny in stating that the Southeast(plus Texas) has the healthiest gender dynamic in the US with(arguably) the best women for long term dating/marriage in the country. It is not surprising that both of your favorite girls were from this region.

The Midwest to is also more relaxed, probably the second best after the Southeast. You'll find better attitudes in St. Louis than you will in NYC.

LA(which I also listed as a hub) is probably a bit better than NYC or DC, but take that with a grain of salt as it is just an educated guess. It is, after all, the nation's center for the celebrity culture that creates many of these problems in the first place.

But, to conclude, it is all about perspective. Where you're from matters, and that's the bottomline. Most men in the manosphere either live or have spent a lot of their time in the Northeast or Mid-Atlantic(specifically DC), and that has colored their perspective.

Quote: (05-02-2011 12:47 PM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

Quote: (05-02-2011 02:14 AM)Sammy Wrote:  

But still, I think that guys on this board, and in the manosphere generally, focus overwhelmingly on the negative when it comes to American women.

On the other hand, I recognize my sample size is tiny, and my argument is conditioned to hell, so maybe I'm wrong. Thoughts?

It is a matter of context and how it can affect one's perspective.

Your observation is correct-the manosphere is extremely negative when it comes to its portrayal of American women. Part of this, however, is due to the fact that much of the writing in the manosphere is centered on the perspective of men who live in larger coastal cities and go to larger universities(where a lot of big city residents flock to for school).

Consider the forum you are on right now. Roosh is a DC native. Consider the man widely viewed as the godfather of the manosphere, Roissy-also a DC native. DC punches well above its weight when it comes to PUAs and manosphere bloggers, as any of the most well known (VK, The Rookie, etc) are from the area. You will notice that most of the other vocal PUAs and manosphere writers tend to come from regions similar to these: New York City, LA, DC, Boston, London to an extent, Toronto and so on.

Within the context of the specific areas they live in, their negative portrayals are significantly more truthful than many optimists would like to believe. These are places where the somewhat cold, darwinian and pessimistic dynamics articulated by these guys about the nature of gender relations are most truthful. It is what they have seen and lived, and thus it is what they believe and articulate.

Roosh, for example, is particularly hard on American girls, and part of that is because he is from DC. Anyone who is familiar with that part of the country will tell you that it is not a very ideal place to be as a single guy for a host of reasons, not the least of which is the attitudes held by many of the women there. Roosh's criticism may seem harsh to many foreigners with experience in slightly less difficult parts of the country, but to most of his followers(most of whom are concentrated in large cultural hubs like Vegas, LA, Toronto, NYC, Miami, Atlanta, DC, Boston and a handful of others) it will seem like he's been living in their shoes for quite some time. The darwinian dynamics of the Venusian arts(read: game) apply most strongly in these geographical contexts. If you want to do well in DC, you'll need to swallow some of the bitter red pills he offers about the nature of women and internalize them, because in that environment things likely are really that bad.

Same for Roissy-his attitude is harsh, but its crucial to dating success in a place like DC.

If you live in a smaller hub(ex: Charleston, Raleigh, Sacramento, Albany, Des Moines) or just a much smaller town away from everything, you'll have a slightly different perspective because the difficult and somewhat harsh trends described in those larger markets apply significantly less. There is also, as has been mentioned, a regional variation. The Northeast(plus DC) and Californian coast have the largest concentration of these negative, pessimistic dynamics in the USA. Toronto, from what I read, is up there as well.

The Southeast as a whole has a much more relaxed dynamic. Even Atlanta, which I listed above as a "hub", is more laid back with a slightly healthier dynamic than what you'd see in DC or NYC, even though it is probably closer to those two examples than other parts of the South.
I would agree with Giovonny in stating that the Southeast(plus Texas) has the healthiest gender dynamic in the US with(arguably) the best women for long term dating/marriage in the country. It is not surprising that both of your favorite girls were from this region.

The Midwest to is also more relaxed, probably the second best after the Southeast. You'll find better attitudes in St. Louis than you will in NYC.

LA(which I also listed as a hub) is probably a bit better than NYC or DC, but take that with a grain of salt as it is just an educated guess. It is, after all, the nation's center for the celebrity culture that creates many of these problems in the first place.

But, to conclude, it is all about perspective. Where you're from matters, and that's the bottomline. Most men in the manosphere either live or have spent a lot of their time in the Northeast or Mid-Atlantic(specifically DC), and that has colored their perspective.

Exactly. ^

DC is warpigs and politics. The women aren't as attractive and they're lazy with their appearances. Pretty much the worst feminazis here of all.

Sammy -

Ok the real question is where have you been (or dated women) outside of the UK and USA for comparisons sake?

Brazil?
Colombia?
Argentina?
DR?
PR?
Latvia?
Moldova?
Thailand?

Otherwise you are just comparing USA to UK.

" But I've dated five women really seriously in my life. Two of those girls were American - and they are unquestionably my favorites."

Pretty small sample size. I have swooped 100's of quality American girls, and I still think American girls are weesh compared to other countries pound for pound and round for round.

These were funny:

"One used to bake me cookies at 1am if I was hungry after a night out,"

Read: squeezed a tube of Tollhouse on a cookie sheet and turned on the oven. Most likely over or under cooked them.

"or cook me some eggs if I was hungry after the gym."

Read: Threw some eggbeaters into a pan and turned on the electric stove. Or more likely a microwave.

i'm a naturalized brit with american accent

american girls go crazy for europeans, namely british, i agree

Quote: (05-02-2011 02:21 PM)maestrobaires Wrote:  

i'm a naturalized brit with american accent

american girls go crazy for europeans, namely british, i agree

I'm an Italian in LA and second the accent. It is a devastating weapon. If I talk at the bar with my buddies there is a solid chance chicks come over and ask where I am from - once I reply "Camon, are you deaf? havent you ever gone out of the state? Detroit Michigan here". After that, it's on ;-)

Still, going back to the thread topic. I am not too keen on American chicks. IN LA, at least, they tend to be quite shallow. If hot (actresses) they are uneducated and boring. And love to play games. When I explain them that in Italy a girl can and will call a guy every other date to suggest to do something, they look at me as if I am from Mars, LOL.

Yes, in Italy, despite feminism hasnt exactly got deep roots and despite religion, chicks can and do call guys to go out since well before you have banged them or dated for 6+ dates.

In conclusion, not a fan of the American girl. When I meet a fellow European I quickly sense the difference and I go after her.

you tanos got the game naturally

di dove sei?

i agree with you absolutely

Quote: (05-02-2011 04:29 PM)maestrobaires Wrote:  

you tanos got the game naturally

di dove sei?

i agree with you absolutely

Di Roma.

Yeah, the accent helps.

The routine to throw in early in the conversation is "Ok, what's your favorite Italian restaurant in town? lets see if you are knowledgeable" no matter what she responds I say "Not bad but far from great. This is the hidden gem - restaurant name. Then 10 min later when I am leaving without (apparently) getting her number I make a dramatic u-turn after saying goodbye (the famous, Shake & Bake drama move ;-)) saying "you know what, I could bring you to that Italian place, what do you say?
It feels natural, it makes sense that you return where you started. It is smooth. Then of course no way I bring her to that fancy Italian place first ;-)

It works like a charm, ESPECIALLY, if done in front of her female friends (the accent usually disarm also them). They sense the alpha but you seem "different" and they cant read you too well.
LOL

Quote: (05-02-2011 02:14 AM)Sammy Wrote:  

I'm an Englishman

I stopped reading there.

Quote: (05-02-2011 12:47 PM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

Quote: (05-02-2011 02:14 AM)Sammy Wrote:  

But still, I think that guys on this board, and in the manosphere generally, focus overwhelmingly on the negative when it comes to American women.

On the other hand, I recognize my sample size is tiny, and my argument is conditioned to hell, so maybe I'm wrong. Thoughts?

I would agree with Giovonny in stating that the Southeast(plus Texas) has the healthiest gender dynamic in the US with(arguably) the best women for long term dating/marriage in the country.

Come down here with that mentality and watch how fast you get dropped by a girl.

Lol at anyone defending American women

I am probably one of the few who see some positives of some American women and I LIVE in the DC area. For one, I am not really into the "old school thinking" of "man chases woman and provides totally for woman". Due to the uneven way the court system works against men in relationships/marriages, I am partial to the working, money-making, do-more-to-create-less-stress on me women.

I will deal the "extra-ness" of attitude for that.

Back in the day, I LOVED banging chicks in Toronto but at the same time, I grew tired of seeing chick after chick (regardless how fine she was) just working at places like some retail store and living with parents into her late 20's/30's.

I love the Brazilian, Colombian and Dominican women but at the end of the day....can I put them on a mortgage application? Do they have any marketable skill?

Quote: (05-02-2011 01:12 PM)Gmac Wrote:  

Quote: (05-02-2011 12:47 PM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

Consider the forum you are on right now. Roosh is a DC native. Consider the man widely viewed as the godfather of the manosphere, Roissy-also a DC native. DC punches well above its weight when it comes to PUAs and manosphere bloggers, as any of the most well known (VK, The Rookie, etc) are from the area. You will notice that most of the other vocal PUAs and manosphere writers tend to come from regions similar to these: New York City, LA, DC, Boston, London to an extent, Toronto and so on.

Within the context of the specific areas they live in, their negative portrayals are significantly more truthful than many optimists would like to believe. These are places where the somewhat cold, darwinian and pessimistic dynamics articulated by these guys about the nature of gender relations are most truthful. It is what they have seen and lived, and thus it is what they believe and articulate.

The darwinian dynamics of the Venusian arts(read: game) apply most strongly in these geographical contexts. If you want to do well in DC, you'll need to swallow some of the bitter red pills he offers about the nature of women and internalize them, because in that environment things likely are really that bad.

Same for Roissy-his attitude is harsh, but its crucial to dating success in a place like DC.

Exactly. ^

DC is warpigs and politics. The women aren't as attractive and they're lazy with their appearances. Pretty much the worst feminazis here of all.

I didn't realize so many of you were from DC. I only knew Roosh was because he suggested places like Frontpage and Busboys & Poets.

I'm from the Midwest and am finding things in DC just like you're saying. Things were pretty easy when I lived in the Midwest, but I moved to DC, even read Bang, and am still finding it tougher here.

So what's the secret to DC game? Is the game any different here or do different techniques work better or worse here than the typical PUA strategies? Or are you just saying that game is more important here than elsewhere?

I can internalize that the women here are garbage in a heartbeat! I've started responding to the annoying "What do you do?" question with a description of my ass modeling (mostly I just can't stand the question), but most DC women don't seem programmed for humor.

Quote: (05-02-2011 05:09 PM)LÉtranger Wrote:  

Quote: (05-02-2011 02:14 AM)Sammy Wrote:  

I'm an Englishman

I stopped reading there.

Haha, that gave me a damn good laugh

Quote: (05-02-2011 08:32 PM)houston Wrote:  

Come down here with that mentality and watch how fast you get dropped by a girl.

Lol at anyone defending American women

No worries bro, I know the deal. While I still contend that Southern women are a slightly better deal than your average DC girl, this is still the USA and the gender dynamics in this country as a whole are messed up.

I am in no way implying the existence of a Garden of Eden here. In fact, I don't even know if I could call it a nice flower garden. But I would contend that the grass is at least a little greener on that side-that's not saying much, but it is something notable to keep on the mind. While a minority, good women do still exist in America, and all I'm saying is that the Southeast and Midwest have a larger number of them per capita than your average DC/NYC resident will be used to.

If you really want anything more positive than that when it comes to gender dynamics, you probably need to leave the country. If you must stay in the US and want to maximize your chances of finding a sane woman, this type of discussion should be interesting and useful to you.

Quote: (05-02-2011 05:09 PM)LÉtranger Wrote:  

Quote: (05-02-2011 02:14 AM)Sammy Wrote:  

I'm an Englishman

I stopped reading there.

^^Still can't stop laughing about this.

I don't think it's a coincidence that DC has produced some of the hardest-hitting game and skilled players. Necessity is the mother of invention, and DC seems to be home to some of the thirstiest MFers in the country. We all know by now that DC is the 7-11 of girl-markets: a wasteland of slim pickings and over-priced merchandise (5s and 6s charging the price of an 8 or 9). Pair a massive sausage-fest, packed to the brim with women that are a scrotum-wrinkle away from full manhood, bad weather, pencil-necked douchebags, and you have a perfect storm for a thousand Roissys or Rooshes to emerge.

Quote: (05-03-2011 03:20 PM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  

I don't think it's a coincidence that DC has produced some of the hardest-hitting game and skilled players. Necessity is the mother of invention, and DC seems to be home to some of the thirstiest MFers in the country. We all know by now that DC is the 7-11 of girl-markets: a wasteland of slim pickings and over-priced merchandise (5s and 6s charging the price of an 8 or 9). Pair a massive sausage-fest, packed to the brim with women that are a scrotum-wrinkle away from full manhood, bad weather, pencil-necked douchebags, and you have a perfect storm for a thousand Roissys or Rooshes to emerge.

I have been out of the "single & clubbing" scene in DC for a few years, so I did not know DC was turning into a sausage-fest. I would NOT be surprised though. While the men had the advantage, DC men pretty much had their way with the DC women.

I just know that speaking on just me, it seems like I was hanging out and freely banging chicks at the right times: During DC's high women-to-men ratio, while Toronto chicks were easy, when there were events like Freaknik in Atlanta or Labor Day at Virginia Beach or 4th of July/Labor Day at Martha's Vineyard...or when not many dudes knew about Brazil....so I would not be surprised in once again I made it "just in time".

Quote: (05-03-2011 03:20 PM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  

packed to the brim with women that are a scrotum-wrinkle away from full manhood

lol, damn!

The thing is, if you have a city with tons of women (even if they are 5s/6s charging like 9s) with a ton of douchy guys, you'd think supply and demand would force the women where they belong and even things out. Unless they all end up going home to their dog or cat, I guess.

Quote: (05-03-2011 03:20 PM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  

Quote: (05-02-2011 05:09 PM)LÉtranger Wrote:  

Quote: (05-02-2011 02:14 AM)Sammy Wrote:  

I'm an Englishman

I stopped reading there.

^^Still can't stop laughing about this.

I don't think it's a coincidence that DC has produced some of the hardest-hitting game and skilled players. Necessity is the mother of invention, and DC seems to be home to some of the thirstiest MFers in the country. We all know by now that DC is the 7-11 of girl-markets: a wasteland of slim pickings and over-priced merchandise (5s and 6s charging the price of an 8 or 9). Pair a massive sausage-fest, packed to the brim with women that are a scrotum-wrinkle away from full manhood, bad weather, pencil-necked douchebags, and you have a perfect storm for a thousand Roissys or Rooshes to emerge.

Throw in the multitude of black guys in DC who have game and the showy Middle Eastern guys and it's a cutthroat environment to be getting laid. Without game you simply don't get anything.

Quote: (05-03-2011 07:42 AM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

Quote: (05-02-2011 08:32 PM)houston Wrote:  

Come down here with that mentality and watch how fast you get dropped by a girl.

Lol at anyone defending American women

No worries bro, I know the deal. While I still contend that Southern women are a slightly better deal than your average DC girl, this is still the USA and the gender dynamics in this country as a whole are messed up.

I am in no way implying the existence of a Garden of Eden here. In fact, I don't even know if I could call it a nice flower garden. But I would contend that the grass is at least a little greener on that side-that's not saying much, but it is something notable to keep on the mind. While a minority, good women do still exist in America, and all I'm saying is that the Southeast and Midwest have a larger number of them per capita than your average DC/NYC resident will be used to.

If you really want anything more positive than that when it comes to gender dynamics, you probably need to leave the country. If you must stay in the US and want to maximize your chances of finding a sane woman, this type of discussion should be interesting and useful to you.

I got you now man. I can't compare since I've never been to the east coast. Girls sound horrible up there though

Quote: (05-04-2011 12:04 AM)houston Wrote:  

I got you now man. I can't compare since I've never been to the east coast. Girls sound horrible up there though

It is as bad as you think it is...and then some.

Quote: (05-03-2011 07:29 PM)UrbanNerd Wrote:  

Quote: (05-03-2011 03:20 PM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  

I don't think it's a coincidence that DC has produced some of the hardest-hitting game and skilled players. Necessity is the mother of invention, and DC seems to be home to some of the thirstiest MFers in the country. We all know by now that DC is the 7-11 of girl-markets: a wasteland of slim pickings and over-priced merchandise (5s and 6s charging the price of an 8 or 9). Pair a massive sausage-fest, packed to the brim with women that are a scrotum-wrinkle away from full manhood, bad weather, pencil-necked douchebags, and you have a perfect storm for a thousand Roissys or Rooshes to emerge.

I have been out of the "single & clubbing" scene in DC for a few years, so I did not know DC was turning into a sausage-fest. I would NOT be surprised though. While the men had the advantage, DC men pretty much had their way with the DC women.

I just know that speaking on just me, it seems like I was hanging out and freely banging chicks at the right times: During DC's high women-to-men ratio, while Toronto chicks were easy, when there were events like Freaknik in Atlanta or Labor Day at Virginia Beach or 4th of July/Labor Day at Martha's Vineyard...or when not many dudes knew about Brazil....so I would not be surprised in once again I made it "just in time".

Lol at DC being tough. If you think that's true, then don't come to San Francisco.

I only have the experience of working in the city (DC) for 4 months one summer, but I found it to be vastly easier than any California city. Women in DC and northern VA stared at me like I was a freaking movie star. And I am not even that good-looking.

In fairness, attraction/game by city also has something to do with your avatar/lifestyle and look. A US west coast appeal is going to be different than a US east coast appeal. My feeling about DC when I was there was that if guys had just bumped up their fitness/fashion a bit, they would've done much better.

Re Atlanta, I have never been there but some of my wings have. I've heard Atl is one of the easiest places to game in the country. I also thought Dallas would be easy, but didn't spend enough time there to be 100% sure.

Re Tothmosis comment about Martha's Vineyard, I have done very well there also in the past, but we are not talking about a high number of single hotties in the game pool.

I was always wondering how European countries compare to the USA. While we often hear that Eastern Europe girls and blah blah are more feminine and such, here in Croatia (southeastern europe) I have the impression that we are quite americanized already and the amount of game required for even mediocre girls is skyrocketing.