Quote: (04-15-2011 05:27 PM)Chad Daring Wrote:  

So after reading all around, I'm coming to one major conclusion, and one rule of thumb for working out.
If the ancient Romans couldn't do it, it wont help you.

Could you explain the rationale behind this conclusion?

@Speakeasy (and anyone in this thread, really):

Conventional wisdom on food intake that permeates the bodybuilding culture is ultimately garbage -- figuratively and literally (those protein bars are crap).

Did you know that there's an increase in HGH when the body is fasted?

Head on over to http://www.leangains.com (i linked it in my previous response) and digest as much as you can.

Then I recommend reading the article from Men's Journal that Roosh linked, as it trims traditional workout rational to the bone - (as in, theres really only a few workouts you should be following: Deadlifts, Presses, and Squats).

Everything else is nonsense.

Edit: @Roosh
I'm thinking of purchasing starting strength, how do you like it?

Quote: (04-16-2011 02:42 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

Quote: (04-15-2011 12:08 PM)Moma Wrote:  

Secondly, and this is very important, you need to pay attention to your nutrition. You MUST take in extra protein if you want to get stronger. There is no alternative to this. You should aim for a gram per pound of bodyweight.

That's just a fuckload of protein. I'm at about 185lbs. A chicken breast only has 30grams of protein. So I'd need to eat like 6 chicken breasts a day to do this. And that's conservative. Some trainers even insist on 1.5 grams per pound of body weight.

Can someone give me examples of a full day's course of meals for building bulk and strength?

And here is the question I've never found an adequate answer to...how do these dudes in prison get so huge? There is no way they can be getting a bunch of protein from their meals which mostly consists of empty calorie "filler" like mac and cheese, bread, baloney, spaghetti and stuff like that. Yet these guys are coming out of the pen yoked. What's going on there?

One of the quickest and cheapest ways to get your protein is milk. Drinking one gallon per day nets you about 120g of protein. If drinking that much milk seems unsettling, half a gallon per day will still give you a fair amount of protein (60g). More info here

If you're lactose intolerant, there's other cheap sources you can consume to help round out your protein intake. Same website as above has a list of cheap proteins you can eat, plus a sample meal plan.

Quote: (04-16-2011 03:56 PM)MVolt Wrote:  

One of the quickest and cheapest ways to get your protein is milk. Drinking one gallon per day nets you about 120g of protein.

And 2000 calories... and 80 grams of fat.... and 192 grams of sugar


No offense, but thats terrible advice. Milk is actually really bad for you compared to most drinks.

Compare that to a pound (I know thats a lot but so is a gallon of milk) of beef jerky

1300 calories
240 grams of protein
8 grams of fat
48 grams of sugar

Its worth noting that both of these are for 16 servings. (16 cups in a gallon and 16 ounces in a pound)

Quote: (04-16-2011 03:47 PM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

Quote: (04-15-2011 05:27 PM)Chad Daring Wrote:  

So after reading all around, I'm coming to one major conclusion, and one rule of thumb for working out.
If the ancient Romans couldn't do it, it wont help you.

Could you explain the rationale behind this conclusion?

One thing I read (sorry I cant cite but I believe it was the article Roosh tweeted) basically said that all machines do one thing, they isolate the muscle you're working. By isolating it it increases the muscles strength while failing to increase the muscles strength in regards to you're total body. This can actually lead to dangerous situations where the main muscle is stronger then the surrounding muscles and the bodies infrastructure.


Things like ellipticals aren't terrible, but they again lack full body involvement. Ellipticals are big for people with bad joints from age or injury, but an inclined treadmill going at a moderate walking pace (say 3mph) will get your heart pumping, will be easy on your body, and you can feel it all over.


The biggest things seems to be the lack of total body involvement in modern exercise machines and techniques.

Quote: (04-16-2011 04:18 PM)Chad Daring Wrote:  

Quote: (04-16-2011 03:56 PM)MVolt Wrote:  

One of the quickest and cheapest ways to get your protein is milk. Drinking one gallon per day nets you about 120g of protein.

And 2000 calories... and 80 grams of fat.... and 192 grams of sugar


No offense, but thats terrible advice. Milk is actually really bad for you compared to most drinks.

Compare that to a pound (I know thats a lot but so is a gallon of milk) of beef jerky

1300 calories
240 grams of protein
8 grams of fat
48 grams of sugar

Its worth noting that both of these are for 16 servings. (16 cups in a gallon and 16 ounces in a pound)

I should add an addendum. I didn't see the weight posted by Speakeasy (185), and I figured the GOMAD diet would have been perfect for him.

Traditionally, the GOMAD diet is mostly used by those who consider themselves "hardgainers," or thin, teenage kids looking to bulk up quickly in time for football practice. These types need the weight gain, and drinking one gallon in addition to whatever else they're eating won't kill them. They're working out while drinking milk, not sitting around doing nothing. Plus, the GOMAD diet is a short-term diet. You're only doing it for one-two months, not everyday for the rest of your life.

But despite all that, drinking milk is a cheap and easy way to get your protein. It's the perfect supplement. Drinking two or three glasses a day is an excellent way to get your high quality protein.

And milk is not bad for you. It's one of the better, healthier drinks you can give to someone. It's a lot better than drinking a can of soda, or grape flavored koolaid, or sweet tea. Drinking any of that crap gives you little to no benefit.

If you're lactose intolerant, sure, go ahead and avoid it. That's why I listed a second link that had a list of accessible proteins other than milk. But to say milk is bad for you compared to "most" drinks is disingenuous. Milk is a good source of vitamins, minerals and calcium, in addition to the protein.

Quote: (04-16-2011 06:26 PM)MVolt Wrote:  

If you're lactose intolerant, sure, go ahead and avoid it. That's why I listed a second link that had a list of accessible proteins other than milk. But to say milk is bad for you compared to "most" drinks is disingenuous. Milk is a good source of vitamins, minerals and calcium, in addition to the protein.

Dairy is known to be terrible for people who can't completely tolerate it, and levels of tolerance vary so wildly it is sometimes difficult to even notice them on less susceptible individuals.

But, if you happen to be someone who does digest milk properly, it is definitely good for you.

Thats true Volt, if you're a stick looking to become a tree I could see milk being massively beneficial.

As far as milk being good for you compared to soda, I still say just drink water. I drink water (or unsweetened ice tea for caffeine) all day, and maybe have a glass of juice once a day. When you're trying to cut calories to lose weight nothing will give you wiggle room like getting rid of drinkable calories.

As far as cheap protein goes.

Eggs. Eggs are basically the perfect food. When I was doing Atkins I would buy 18 eggs every week, boil, and peel them and just keep them in the fridge. If I was getting a little hungry just grab a couple, little kosher salt and pop em back. Nice little fat and protein shot to keep you going.

Milk huh. I'm skinny trying to put on maybe 20 pounds

Quote: (04-18-2011 01:52 AM)houston Wrote:  

Milk huh. I'm skinny trying to put on maybe 20 pounds

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtxAxZKt8...re=related

People have to also observe the quality of protein vs quantity. There's a lot of woo ha in North America about this has protein and that has protein but there are certain proteins absorbed by the body better than others and there are others that bring in protein but are counteracted by all the fat that comes with it.

I don't agree with drinking lots of milk. Sounds like a real bad idea. The amount of B.S that comes with milk counters the minimal protein intake that it brings.

And is this protein largely utilised by the body?

If your protein is not being utilised by your body, then it's a waste of fcuking time.

Egg whites are an excellent idea.

Here's some maths for you.

You drink x gallons of milk with 100 grams of protein and your body is only able to utilise 12 percent of it. Now your belly is full of milk and other b.s which your body has to work off while trying to funnel that mediocre 12 percent to your muscles.

Eggs yield about 90 percent of their protein to the body for use so if you eat an egg (or two) worth 12 percent in protein, you'll probably get about 9-10 grams from that quick mouthful. Your body doesn't have to deal with all the other b.s that came in and that is an efficient meal.

I would say eat fish, turkey breast, chicken breast and snack throughout the day on nuts (walnuts, almonds etc).

You also want to monitor your progress when weightlifting (bodybuilding).

It's the same as game. You can practise game all you want and go to all these game training camps but if you can't pull a greater amount of chicks then maybe that game isn't working for you the way it should.

The way you monitor your progress when building up your body is to see if you are getting STRONGER.

By and large, generally speaking, I haven't seen anyone put 50lbs on their bench press and weigh the same and look the same.

It can happen but this is an exception.

Go heavy at least once a week on the weights. Bench press or squats or whatever your joints can handle, do it.

And leave the fcuking machines alone. That's like going to Cuba or DR paying for pussy and saying that your game has improved.

Machines are not a valid litmus test.

Hit the free weights. There is no OTHER way.

IT WORKS.

GAME

Having a better body WILL increase the amount of women you close and also reduce the height of escalation needed before she agrees to come home with you to fcuk.

Think about it. How many women have you thought were a 5.5/6 in the face but have their overall value RAISED to a 8 because of a smoking body?

And how many women have you seen with a face that was a 8.5 only to have their overall value LOWERED to a 6/5.5 because of a mediocre body?

Women think EXACTLY the same way. I have literally been able to close a woman (for the FCUK) because she hugged me (thus feeling my muscular body) or saw a piece of my exposed arm and decided she wanted some exposure to a piece... of my other arm.

This has been tried, tested and proven in every single continent that I have lived in.

I am by no means a body builder and really do not like staying at the gym long. I did play sports when I was much younger and like someone else posted, you cannot go wrong with the 4 compound exercises: bench press, military press, squat and deadlift (traditional or Romanian). I basically do those 4 exercises + some ab work + cardio and I am out of that gym.

For protein shakes, when I am lazy I buy Lean Body (protein drink) and I keep a big 'ole container or Optimum Nutrition protein powder to make my own drink which is cheaper then the RTD (ready-to-drink) product.

Quote: (04-18-2011 10:43 AM)UrbanNerd Wrote:  

I am by no means a body builder and really do not like staying at the gym long. I did play sports when I was much younger and like someone else posted, you cannot go wrong with the 4 compound exercises: bench press, military press, squat and deadlift (traditional or Romanian). I basically do those 4 exercises + some ab work + cardio and I am out of that gym.

For protein shakes, when I am lazy I buy Lean Body (protein drink) and I keep a big 'ole container or Optimum Nutrition protein powder to make my own drink which is cheaper then the RTD (ready-to-drink) product.

Me too, I stay in the gym no longer than 1 hour and I'm out. That's one hour to go heavy and then I go home. Done deal.

Sometimes it's 45 mins tops, I rest for only one minute between sets before diving back in.

Quote: (04-16-2011 02:42 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

That's just a fuckload of protein. I'm at about 185lbs. A chicken breast only has 30grams of protein. So I'd need to eat like 6 chicken breasts a day to do this. And that's conservative. Some trainers even insist on 1.5 grams per pound of body weight.

Can someone give me examples of a full day's course of meals for building bulk and strength?

Firstly, they say your body can only utilise 30 grams of protein at one sitting so funnelling down a whole amount in one gulp will waste anything over 30 grams.

Here is how it's broken down.

You could open up breakfast with a chicken breast. That's 30 grams

Lunch could be salmon and eggs, let's say it adds up to 30 grams.

Supper is whatever gives you 30 grams. Now you have 90 grams total for the most basic meals that you SHOULD be consuming on a daily basis if you are serious about lifting weights.

Now, you have to address your snacks. Snack on whatever it takes to funnel down the remaining 90.

As forementioned, try a protein powder. Ideally, you should take your 30 grams of protein powder BEFORE working out and another 30 or maybe even 40 grams afterwards. Now in your workout session, you have added an additional 70 grams to your daily basic which equals 160 grams of protein.

Now you only have 25 grams left. That's one meal. Snack on nuts, egg whites (these are really easy to consume, you can eat four whites, which may add up to 20 grams and don't tell me it's expensive, you live in America, shytt is as cheap as sin over there).

Let me know if you have any further difficulties. It's really a piece of piss to accomplish...

Quote: (04-16-2011 02:42 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

And here is the question I've never found an adequate answer to...how do these dudes in prison get so huge? There is no way they can be getting a bunch of protein from their meals which mostly consists of empty calorie "filler" like mac and cheese, bread, baloney, spaghetti and stuff like that. Yet these guys are coming out of the pen yoked. What's going on there?

How do you know what jail food consists of? And did you know that jail cats get all sorts of shyt smuggled in if they pay off the warden? Some of them get more pussy than a free man with all the smuggled shyt going on. So getting protein powder smuggled in, extra portions of steak, salmon and etc at dinner time etc etc..ain't a thing but a chicken wing on a string...

So I'm starting a new diet and workout regiment this week (gonna test it for two weeks, so 10 workout days) Firstly I'm incorporating more whole grains (see the post about steel cut oatz) and more lean protein, gonna make my daily lunch on work days a tuna fish wrap or sandwich.

I'm also ditching all isolation machines. I've replaced them with cables for the most part.

After doing this new workout today, I can definitely speak to the effectiveness of cables. This is the first time in a couple weeks that I've been this kind of sore. My arms are completely blitzed, feels good.

As of now my basic workout routine consists of doing all upper body muscle groups via dumbbells and bench, stopping to do core workouts for about 5-10 minutes, then going back and doing all the upper body muscle groups again via cables or assisted chin ups/dips.

I'm also nixxing cardio from my workout. I read something that the chemicals that doing cardio release into your body can be very detrimental to muscle growth. Ive never seen any meatheads running or using ellipticals so this makes sense to me. Instead what was recommended was doing a slow pace high angle uphill walk. Fun fact, this is supposedly burning almost as many calories as running at 6.5mph (uphill angle of 15 degrees at a speed of 2.5mph)


I'll see how this works out and report back

One thing to keep in mind is that Starting Strength won't necessarily get you huge. In fact, it won't get you huge at all. It will get you really really strong. As mentioned in the article to process for gaining mass is different from adding strength. Google around for before and afters. You'll notice pictures of dudes that look basically the same shirtless but double their core lifts in as little as 4 months.

My coworker has been into this stuff for a while and even got certified at one of the Ripptoes courses. However, you would never guess what that he benches close to 260 ish by just looking at him.

The real key is that once you get "strong" enough to move around seriously manly weights you can rapidly add on mass because of the shear amount of weight you are making your muscles move around. Think VK huge only in half the time. It does suck that you can't really do both. I guess the closest thing would be clean bulking and cutting. However, it could take multiple cycles and years before you even start to look close to the guy on the cover of mens fitness.

Quote: (04-19-2011 04:32 PM)faznine15 Wrote:  

One thing to keep in mind is that Starting Strength won't necessarily get you huge. In fact, it won't get you huge at all. It will get you really really strong. As mentioned in the article to process for gaining mass is different from adding strength. Google around for before and afters. You'll notice pictures of dudes that look basically the same shirtless but double their core lifts in as little as 4 months.

My coworker has been into this stuff for a while and even got certified at one of the Ripptoes courses. However, you would never guess what that he benches close to 260 ish by just looking at him.

The real key is that once you get "strong" enough to move around seriously manly weights you can rapidly add on mass because of the shear amount of weight you are making your muscles move around. Think VK huge only in half the time. It does suck that you can't really do both. I guess the closest thing would be clean bulking and cutting. However, it could take multiple cycles and years before you even start to look close to the guy on the cover of mens fitness.

So I take it as a general rule, to build strength, you're going to do low reps, with high loads, and to build bulk you're going to do high reps with less load. Correct?

So what is a good cycle to run between strength and mass training?

Quote: (04-19-2011 08:02 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

So I take it as a general rule, to build strength, you're going to do low reps, with high loads, and to build bulk you're going to do high reps with less load. Correct?

So what is a good cycle to run between strength and mass training?

In my experience, for mass you want fewer reps/sets with heavy loads. So 5/6 reps with 4 sets is ideal. I've gotten bigger with just 5x5 workouts.

The chart below mostly matches my experience but I don't think anything above 6 reps is good for building mass. 12 reps is way too much. Anything above 5 reps is too much as well.




As for diet... this is what i eat pretty much everyday, as a skinny guy who focuses on building mass.


Breakfast:

- 4 hardboiled eggs, 3 of them yolk
- 2 packets of instant maple and brown sugar oatmeal (market basket), low sugar variety
- 1 yogurt


Snack:

- 2 slices of whole wheat bread
- 4 slices of Bar-S Premium Deli Ham
- Dijon Mustard

After-workout Shake (for my workout days):

- 20oz of chocolate milk

Lunch:

- 2 cans of Giesha Albacore Solid White Tuna mixed with Dijon Mustard
- Enough pasta to fill a small bowl (I use 1/4 and 1/3 of a pasta box)

Dinner:

- 2 Lean Gourmet Frozen Dinners
- 1 yogurt.





The above diet costs me less than $55 a week, gives me 2500 calories and over 150g's of protein each day, has some additional carbs for mass building purposes, and takes very little time to prepare. It has almost no fat and very little sugar.

I have gotten very far with this diet.

Samseau - have u gained weight with that diet? I'm very skinny and want to start eating things to help me get bigger. I work out and have noticed I'm slowly getting bigger but my metabolism is so high.

Quote: (04-19-2011 09:00 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Cool chart. But what's the difference between power and strength?

Power is strength times speed. It refers to the amount of time it takes you to move a certain weight to a certain point.

For instance, a guy who can complete 5 reps of 200lbs in 2.5 seconds is more powerful than a guy who can complete 5 reps of 200lbs in 5 seconds.

Houston, throw down a data sheet of your weekly dietary intake (to the last calorie!) and I can help you get your weight up.

I've been involved in the field for years.

Being muscular reduces amount of game needed for bangs which is why I did it..

Moma, one more question about the chart. If you are training for muscle mass, it says you need 5 minimum sessions per week. Almost all training guides I've seen shoot for 3 or 4 a week. If you are training 5 days a week, how are you even giving your muscles time to repair? What are your thoughts on that?

Quote: (04-20-2011 01:24 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

Moma, one more question about the chart. If you are training for muscle mass, it says you need 5 minimum sessions per week. Almost all training guides I've seen shoot for 3 or 4 a week. If you are training 5 days a week, how are you even giving your muscles time to repair? What are your thoughts on that?

I don't think 5 is necessary. I think that 4 is adequate. I can see results with 3. 3 is minimum, 4 is good. 5 is a bit excessive and rather time consuming.

However, by working out a different set of muscles per session, you give them a chance to rest so you are not actually working the same muscles every day.

For instance on day 1: Chest, Triceps and shoulders

Day 2: Upper back, lower back (be very careful in this region and don't really go heavy, the back is not meant to be worked out like that) biceps, traps.

Day 3: Legs - Calves, Quads, Glutes.

Day 4: Maybe chest again.

You can do abs every day and alternate between lower and upper.

This is a rough guide that I am listing but it gives you the gist of how it works.

I used to do three or four and I grew like a weed. Pussy quota went up and so did my closes.

Im up to 187 pounds =)

Moma is helping me get my protein diet started. I can't wait to get this shit going and put on some weight.