http://www.businessinsider.com/inside-in...800-2013-4

Medical tourism will change the game on health care costs.

One the one hand we see one more American job fall from upper middle class to middle class.

On the other hand, regular people can afford to have their heart fixed without bankrupting their company/fellow taxpayers.

I hate the AMA and most doctors because they're just greedy pigs ripping off sick people and bankrupting the country.

You knoI another place you need game?

The doctor's office. if you have game you get care. If you don't have game they tell you to take two of these and don't bother calling me in the morning.

Because most people really want to recover from a heart bypass in a subtropical shit hole filled with IRTs and no air conditioning.

If you honestly think doctors are the problem with healthcare costs then you're clueless. Doctors are the most insignificant factor in healthcare costs these days.

Do you also understand that the more you grind down salaries in one profession, the more you'll wind up grinding them down in others? And eventually, that means your salary will also suffer?

The great thing for doctors in a medical tourism system is that the patient's really struggle to sue you if you screw up.

Most patients aren't going to have the will power drag a bad doctor's ass to court in a foreign country in a foreign legal system in a foreign culture. If they do the cost of litigation may outweigh the savings in medical costs, and they may decide to rather seek remedial medical care back home.

Some doctors (I have heard horror stories about medical tourism and plastic surgery) have been getting away with horrible stuff simply because the tourists they treat decide to avoid legal recourse.

Quote: (04-23-2013 03:00 AM)porscheguy Wrote:  

Because most people really want to recover from a heart bypass in a subtropical shit hole filled with IRTs and no air conditioning.

If you honestly think doctors are the problem with healthcare costs then you're clueless. Doctors are the most insignificant factor in healthcare costs these days.

Do you also understand that the more you grind down salaries in one profession, the more you'll wind up grinding them down in others? And eventually, that means your salary will also suffer?

LOL! Not only that but the nurses in those countries aren't even hot. What's the point in going into any medical establishment if you don't at least have a chance in saying "Helllooooo nurse!" (It's an "Animaniacs" reference -- Google it.)

well I understand the legitimate concern like it would be hard for you to sue them.

But it's just very absurd to think U.S has the best medical system for any kinds of operation.
(Maybe if you go to johns hopkins and find a world famous surgeon......but that would be $$$$$$$)

Just because it's more expensive doesn't mean that it's better.

What would you do one of your family member has to go through serious surgery and you have to come up with $100k cash? or even 50k? we are talking about middle class here. I know they work 30 years to pay $200~300k home. they don't have that amount of cash.

Without the proper health insurance, the medical cost gets ridiculous.
it was about $8k just for me taking some x-rays and shot of morphine at the emergency room.
the same procedure would've cost me from the same staff and same equipment from other country, maybe $100~200.
I tell my friends when I hurt my bones, I used to take the x-rays for like 5 bucks to see if it was broken or not.
I used to get stitches all the time on my arms and knees. the cost? like 20 bucks. Obviously, they just think I am talking about getting treatments from some ghetto street doctors. They just can't understand how it can be that cheap.
We are talking about the same skills and the same equipment.
I also used to get shots for the cold like 5 bucks. (thought it would be better than pills)

The doctor was very easily Accessible and there was no Fear of $$$ for walking in doctors office.
How much % of population can go to doctors office without worrying about money?

It's dumb to go to overseas just to save 'some' money. (like driving around to find a cheaper gas station)
But when we are talking about tens of thousands dollars and you can verify their skills, why not???


I am just curious. You are not fully covered by your company.
you break the bone (just single fracture) or need to get some stitches, how much would it cost you?

The quality of care you get with these discounted medical treatments is not going to be anywhere near up to the standard you get here. The United States government keeps many regulations on hospitals to make sure they are keeping complications to a minimum. People like to bitch but the reality is the healthcare quality is very very good in the US.

Is saving some money worth risking your health increasing your likelihood of infection and less quality of care?

@Sebastian- here's an easy solution: have insurance then you won't have to worry about covering the costs of surgery

Most HMOs will eat the cost of major medical expenses with the patient putting out virtually nothing out of pocket. If you don't have health insurance, then you should stop doing things that require you to have broken bones set, or get stitches.

What do you think the rate of staph infection is like in a hospital where you're in a ward with 20 other patients, no AC, and people randomly coming and going?

well I respect different opinions.

Btw, they were talking about those Boston terror victims. The person was saying the victim's families are going through hard times (those who lost limbs) but they haven't realized future medical cost yet which can be $200~300k.
I think that's a very reasonable price for such a good health care system. I hope those parents are not cheap on spending money.

Quote: (04-23-2013 01:23 PM)porscheguy Wrote:  

Most HMOs will eat the cost of major medical expenses with the patient putting out virtually nothing out of pocket. If you don't have health insurance, then you should stop doing things that require you to have broken bones set, or get stitches.

What do you think the rate of staph infection is like in a hospital where you're in a ward with 20 other patients, no AC, and people randomly coming and going?

Exactly, the 800 you pay for heart surgery (not sure how its even possible to do heart surgery for that low) will balloon when you have complications which require hospitalization in a real US hospital. Thats if the "heart surgery" is even successful in the first place.... I'd rather get the real deal then travel to a 3rd world country to get the heart surgery on a budget version

I'm all for medical tourism in the case of non life threatening ailments. There are some excellent hospitals in Mexico that I read about where you can get MRIs done for like a fifth of the US price.

I wouldn't go to poor countries for anything too critical. The West has the best doctors the world and if it comes down to my life, I'm not going to no damn India for treatment.

Quote: (04-23-2013 07:04 AM)philly22 Wrote:  

The quality of care you get with these discounted medical treatments is not going to be anywhere near up to the standard you get here. The United States government keeps many regulations on hospitals to make sure they are keeping complications to a minimum. People like to bitch but the reality is the healthcare quality is very very good in the US.

Is saving some money worth risking your health increasing your likelihood of infection and less quality of care?

Any evidence for your assertions? Many of the best doctors come from these countries anyhow, I imagine some go home. If you're just assuming that say Thailand or South Korea has inferior service, you're talking out of your ass.

I haven't seem evidence one way or another, but there are plenty of foreign hospitals that seem to have great reputations, like Thailand's Bumrungrad Hospital http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bumrungra...l_Hospital

Often overlooked is the physician's opportunity to get reps in surgery or any other procedure. I'd rather have a surgeon (on average) from New York work on me than one from Arkansas not necessarily because of their training, but because of the amount of people they go through on a day to day basis. Major cities in India, China, and Mexico definitely offer highly skilled physicians. And in places with more competition for jobs (read:higher population), chances are the top guy doing heart surgery will be better than the one at Mass General (all technology being equal for the particular procedure).

Anyone that works in healthcare, are the regulations worth the cost?

The World Health Organization puts out a ranking that takes into account quality of care, life expectancy in a given country. India is 112. US is 38 for comparison- not great but there are a lot of fat, lazy people in this country so diabetes is probable.

The article the OP posted nor myself didn't mention Thailand or S Korea so I don't have much to say about them. They probably have pretty decent healthcare but I don't think they offer the low rates for surgery that India does.

I'm sure there are good physicians in almost every country in the world. I just don't think you will get them as your doc or overall high quality service for a discounted price.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Healt...th_systems

So keep in mind this guy (who performs the $800 heart surgery) works for poor people. There are quite a few amazingly modern hospitals and facilities in India with western trained doctors and state-of-art equipment. Obviously these places will be more expensive, but even then they're still cheaper than the US (that includes travel expenditure and everything else).

Anyway, I think more than anything else, to take away from this is the fact that most of the money we spend on healthcare goes to insurance companies and hospitals. We'd all be better off without insurance companies or universal healthcare...force people to make conscious decisions about where they get their care from, and force them to live healthier...and in turn give an incentive to the healthcare industry to reduce cost.

This guy does $800 heart surgeries mainly due cutting everything except the bare minimum and doing tons of surgeries per day (I personally don't need a freaking $1000/day air conditioned room in a super nice facility). I don't think we should go as extreme, but clearly there's a lot of fat that can be trimmed here.

Quote: (04-24-2013 05:28 PM)philly22 Wrote:  

The World Health Organization puts out a ranking that takes into account quality of care, life expectancy in a given country. India is 112. US is 38 for comparison- not great but there are a lot of fat, lazy people in this country so diabetes is probable.

The article the OP posted nor myself didn't mention Thailand or S Korea so I don't have much to say about them. They probably have pretty decent healthcare but I don't think they offer the low rates for surgery that India does.

I'm sure there are good physicians in almost every country in the world. I just don't think you will get them as your doc or overall high quality service for a discounted price.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Healt...th_systems

This is irrelevant, because if you're an American traveling to India or to another country for a heart bypass or whatever you're not going for the *average* medical treatment.

People can laugh all they want, but medical tourism is the future. It's not just an issue of costs. It's also increasingly the result of the fact that the U.S. and European medical and pharmaceutical industries are over-regulated. Want experimental stem cell therapy? You can forget about it in America, because the FDA has approved just one stem cell product and there's only a handful in trials. Moreover, the FDA says you can't even use your *own* stem cells without their approval. That's right, they consider your own cells to be a drug that requires 3 phases of clinical trials and their approval. You're dying, have no other options, and have nothing to lose? They don't care.

Quote: (04-25-2013 07:42 AM)Therapsid Wrote:  

Quote: (04-24-2013 05:28 PM)philly22 Wrote:  

The World Health Organization puts out a ranking that takes into account quality of care, life expectancy in a given country. India is 112. US is 38 for comparison- not great but there are a lot of fat, lazy people in this country so diabetes is probable.

The article the OP posted nor myself didn't mention Thailand or S Korea so I don't have much to say about them. They probably have pretty decent healthcare but I don't think they offer the low rates for surgery that India does.

I'm sure there are good physicians in almost every country in the world. I just don't think you will get them as your doc or overall high quality service for a discounted price.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Healt...th_systems

This is irrelevant, because if you're an American traveling to India or to another country for a heart bypass or whatever you're not going for the *average* medical treatment.

People can laugh all they want, but medical tourism is the future. It's not just an issue of costs. It's also increasingly the result of the fact that the U.S. and European medical and pharmaceutical industries are over-regulated. Want experimental stem cell therapy? You can forget about it in America, because the FDA has approved just one stem cell product and there's only a handful in trials. Moreover, the FDA says you can't even use your *own* stem cells without their approval. That's right, they consider your own cells to be a drug that requires 3 phases of clinical trials and their approval. You're dying, have no other options, and have nothing to lose? They don't care.

How is it irrelevant? You just said that if you're going to another country you're not going for *average* medical treatment. So if you go to another country for above average service you're not going to get it for the low prices mentioned. It might be reduced but would it be reduced to the point that justifies travel expense, time off work, for a physician who might be as good as one you'd get here.

I agree that for experimental therapies such as stem cell treatment people should go to other countries. If we didn't have as many people here with religious disagreements- stem cell research would be much more advanced in the US. And people with advanced cancer- sure what the hell they should absolutely try anything at that point.

Quote: (04-25-2013 07:11 AM)Genghis Khan Wrote:  

Anyway, I think more than anything else, to take away from this is the fact that most of the money we spend on healthcare goes to insurance companies and hospitals.

This is correct. Most everything else you said was incorrect.

Quote: (04-25-2013 07:11 AM)Genghis Khan Wrote:  

This guy does $800 heart surgeries mainly due cutting everything except the bare minimum and doing tons of surgeries per day (I personally don't need a freaking $1000/day air conditioned room in a super nice facility). I don't think we should go as extreme, but clearly there's a lot of fat that can be trimmed here.

And the guy who works at Maaco paints more cars than the painters at just about any other body shop out there, I sure as hell don't want them painting mine. As for not needing AC, wait until you have a heart bypass. You'll be singing a different tune.

The only time this stuff works is when you're doing surgeries that can be put off. The majority of people who go in for a bypass can't put it off and are in no position to fly. Same goes for things like an appendectomy.

Hospitales Angeles in Tijuana is an excellent hospital and many people go there from San Diego because it is a better hospital than what they can get there. I have found medical care in Mexico to be good and it allows me to self insure. I just pay out of pocket since it isn't that expensive. I have had both ultrasounds and blood tests taken. One thing good about Mexico, is that the doctor actually gives you the tests, rather than storing them at the office. He also took the time to explain all the tests and what they meant. The blood tests have been useful for me to understand and keep in my records. In America, you never see your tests, only the bill. Also, you can get many drugs here, including Cialis, without a doctor's prescription. If you need a prescription for anything, there is a doctor at any Farmacia Fimiliar, who will write a prescription for about $5.