http://www.newsweek.com/2011/01/04/the-4...wows.html#

I'm still skeptical, but there could be some useful information in there. I just don't want to feel like I'm being taken by some guy writing a pop-science book. I'm curious though about his findings on REM sleep. My quality of sleep has always been pretty lousy.

I enjoyed most of it, skipped a bunch of it though...

I liked the supplement experiments and testosterone building... also the spotting bad science section which he broke down how most "studies" get their "results" ..or lack thereof

At the end theres a page with a bunch of extra sections that are located on his webpage, accessible by secret passcodes that were in the book...anyone check these out or know how to find them?

If it is the same as "4 hour workweek", I expect it to be filled up with 50% of common sense ("limit your calorie consumption", "eat less but more often"), 30% misleading things (like "forgetting" to tell the people that initial muscle gain and weight loss is very easy to achieve, and is not indicator of further results), and 20% of blatant lies (like his "photo session" tricks). All of this wrapped in "you can do it too" and "I don't care you don't have time, you need to do it now" marketing crap which may impress some 16yo. In short, a very typical American book, written to capitalize the name and make quick bucks. Unfortunately books like Bang become less and less popular; cudos for Roosh for writing an actually a useful one.

My advice: if you really want to , instead of buying this book, go to a gym and get a couple of sessions with a personal trainer. You'll get the same information, but adjusted to your needs (not everyone needs to lose weight, for example) and lifestyle.

Quote: (01-05-2011 03:14 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

My quality of sleep has always been pretty lousy.

Did you check with your doctor? This is a very valid reason to make an appointment - there may be a lot of factors which affect quality of your sleep, some of them may be quite dangerous if not taken care of. I admit this is kind of old-fashioned advice, but I bet my last pair of pants even the worst MD knows more about sleep than a marketing genius.

PS. Russians already uploaded it.

Quote: (01-05-2011 06:17 PM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

If it is the same as "4 hour workweek", I expect it to be filled up with 50% of common sense ("limit your calorie consumption", "eat less but more often"), 30% misleading things (like "forgetting" to tell the people that initial muscle gain and weight loss is very easy to achieve, and is not indicator of further results), and 20% of blatant lies (like his "photo session" tricks). All of this wrapped in "you can do it too" and "I don't care you don't have time, you need to do it now" marketing crap which may impress some 16yo. In short, a very typical American book, written to capitalize the name and make quick bucks. Unfortunately books like Bang become less and less popular; cudos for Roosh for writing an actually a useful one.

My advice: if you really want to , instead of buying this book, go to a gym and get a couple of sessions with a personal trainer. You'll get the same information, but adjusted to your needs (not everyone needs to lose weight, for example) and lifestyle.

Actually I didnt really think it was like 4HWW, he didnt really say much of 'you can do it too' type crap, mostly just giving his results and giving suggestions. He also advises against doing alot of the stuff.

Pretty much the premise of the book is getting results with the least amount of effort

i think there was a thread on this a while back. Some users came to the conclusion that what he was saying was not very good info

Quote: (01-05-2011 06:24 PM)Biz Wrote:  

Actually I didnt really think it was like 4HWW, he didnt really say much of 'you can do it too' type crap, mostly just giving his results and giving suggestions.

If this book was honestly advertised like that, I doubt anyone would buy it. He claimed in 4HWW that he won the gold medal at Chinese Kickboxing National Championship in 1999, so I'd say his results would not be really relevant to an average dude. And if look in the mirror doesn't motivate one to go to gym, how reading a book would?

Quote:Quote:

He also advises against doing alot of the stuff.

Well, let's be honest, we all KNOW why people get fat and how to lose weight; it is the "know vs doing" what makes the difference. My major issue is that some of his "advice" regarding being able to sleep two hours a day may be just plain dangerous. I'm sure his lawyer put a lot of "check-with-your-doctor-first" warnings about it, but it is highly irresponsible to even suggest those things for which long-term effects are unknown and do not look promising.

Regardless, did I think it was an interesting read? Yes... Am I going to attempt everything in the book? Not a chance.

Quote: (01-05-2011 06:37 PM)kickboxer Wrote:  

i think there was a thread on this a while back. Some users came to the conclusion that what he was saying was not very good info

Yeah. Already discussed here :

http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-2695.html

I haven't read the book, but if his workout regime revolves around the same thing he posted on his blog some time ago, then I have actually tried it with decent results.

As I recall, it entails lifting heavy weights at few repetitions, and working out for just 20 minutes every other day or so. I did pack on some muscle, to the point of having people commenting on it after two months. Sure, initial muscle gain is relatively easy, but it was a first for me and a program I could actually follow for a long time. I still use the 20 minute stuff as the basis for my routine.

I seem to recall that the before/after pictures he posted of himself on his blog were discussed on the bodybuilding.com forum, and it was clear to the members that there was a sort of muscle memory (?) going on with him. Apparently, once the muscles have been big at some time, it is much easier to build them again later (or something like that).

Just my two cents worth.

Haven't read everything yet, but so far it is definitely interesting.

Seems like some people have got some kind of irrational Tim Ferriss hate in here.

To me it seems like the dude wrote the 4h work week to get famous, and then this, body experiments, is what he's really into.

The book is not meant to be read in a single sit down or two, but rather as some sort of unconventional body encyclopedia.

I have been looking to add muscle so I have mainly been focusing on those chapters so far, and am really content with my results. Everything seems to be well backed up by science and self experimentation.

If you don't care too much about copyright, you can find the pdf version online, and check out if the book is for you.

I went through roughly 1/4 of the book. Despite it being full with marketing and stuff which I personally consider quite irrelevant, and despite my personal dislike of Tim Ferris' writing style, I found it useful enough and purchased it.

I suggest getting an ebook as the book is full of links, and having an ebook makes it much easier to follow those links. Nook version is on sale for $9.99 in B&N, and once you strip their crappy DRM - which is very easy - you can read it in any modern ebook reader.

Quote: (01-09-2011 10:15 AM)beebopaloo Wrote:  

I have been looking to add muscle so I have mainly been focusing on those chapters so far, and am really content with my results. Everything seems to be well backed up by science and self experimentation.

This is my main interest as well. How much did you put on in the first week (or two)? I have gained strength, but have not put on any weight. I think my problem is that I need to eat more, despite eating ~3000 cal/day and like 180g of protein (both of which are over what I need to eat for my body weight).

I have also been doing the testosterone thing, but after about 2 weeks I can't say I feel any different.

Where are you guys seeing his recomendations on testosterone levels? I know from bieng in around sports, weight training etc for years some good natural ways to keep test up. I would be interested to see what he says.

The hormone angle is perhaps the largest key here. For instance if you put a man on enough Testosterone alone and sent him to the gym only a few times in a month, while really giving him an advanced diet, he too would gain weight and look ok just sitting, resting, sleeping and occasionally working out. Since I can assume (I have not read it) that Tim Ferris' is not on any steroid type supplement I really am curious what his key is. Nothing will make your hormone levels drop faster than lack of quality sleep. If he is really sleeping that little and working out that seldomly I cannot really see how this report is factual.

Quote: (01-10-2011 10:50 AM)Rocco81 Wrote:  

Where are you guys seeing his recomendations on testosterone levels? I know from bieng in around sports, weight training etc for years some good natural ways to keep test up. I would be interested to see what he says.

I do feel the book is a bit of a scam potentially, but since I paid $9 for the e-version, I'm not too upset. His testosterone increasing regimen consists of taking a fish oil/butter supplement plus 7000-10000 units of vitamin D daily combined with eating something like saurkraut or kimchi for vitamin K(2) synthesis. Sounds kind of wacky, no?

Maybe I should start eating eggs before I go to bed since they contain cholesterol, and testosterone synthesis apparently happens while you sleep.

I tend to go to bed between 10-11 at night but I seem to automatically wake up around 6 am every morning.

Rocco81-Tim doesn't actually DO the Polyphasic Sleep, and he even says in that Chapter it's more for curiosities sake, or for Nursing Mothers. For Polyphasic the timing is essential, and Modern Life makes it impossible for most people.
Menace-He also recommends dousing, or cold showers and ice baths. I've doused in the past and it wakes you up as your core heats up rapidly to protect you, it's thought that also burns off bugs and flus and such in the early stages.
Menace-How old are you? You might not have low testosterone to begin with.
I'm 40 and had had a blood test not long ago say I was in the low-normal range for testosterone. I've changed 3 things thanks to TIM.
I've been eating breakfast within 1 hour of getting up.
Instead of that expensive pill fish oil/butter combo, I take 1 teaspoon of Liquid Cod Liver Oil, and a small pat of European butter on half a 9 grain English Muffin Morning/Night.(I plan to order the KerryGold Butter Online sometime soon.)
I eat a small serving of Kimchi once a day (Health magazine names it one of the 5 healthiest foods, plus it's good tasting.)
In 3 days I noticed a difference in testosterone. Morning erections are much more URGENT, I have more vivid randy thoughts during the day, plus I feel noticeably more confident/aggressive.
Considering how cheap and safe this protocol is (Doctors don't like giving testosterone pills as your body will eventually quit producing it, this protocol effects the processes that create it naturally), this was worth the $14 for the book alone.
I can't wait to see what happens when I get the grass-fed butter and Vitamin D supplementation going.

Quote: (01-10-2011 04:18 PM)thekiller Wrote:  

Menace-How old are you? You might not have low testosterone to begin with.
I'm 40 and had had a blood test not long ago say I was in the low-normal range for testosterone. I've changed 3 things thanks to TIM.
I've been eating breakfast within 1 hour of getting up.
Instead of that expensive pill fish oil/butter combo, I take 1 teaspoon of Liquid Cod Liver Oil, and a small pat of European butter on half a 9 grain English Muffin Morning/Night.(I plan to order the KerryGold Butter Online sometime soon.)
I eat a small serving of Kimchi once a day (Health magazine names it one of the 5 healthiest foods, plus it's good tasting.)
In 3 days I noticed a difference in testosterone. Morning erections are much more URGENT, I have more vivid randy thoughts during the day, plus I feel noticeably more confident/aggressive.

I'm 37, so similar age to you. I don't actually think my testosterone is low, I just want it to be higher. I'm going to finish the supplement and try what you're doing, because I'm really not feeling the things you describe. What is the brand of European butter, and where did you buy it (I'm in the US)? I'll try and switch to Kimchi as well. Thanks for the tips.

If you guys are 40 or near, get your T checked. If it is low, get the cream or injections. I had a friend who at 40 got the cream and feels like he is 21 again. It keeps his levels a healthy mid range.

Killer you are right (though they rarely administer pills..its harder on the liver and an injection can be weekly or even bi-weekly) but the thing is, if you are nearing the edge of Low T its no guarantee that your body will just start making more . You can naturally raise it sure, but at some point for many men it is an uphill battle esp. at 40+ The injections and or cream are completely safe and if at some time you want to just have your old test levels back there are ways to get your balls producing your own test again, which your Doctor will now about anyways.

The only real downside to bieng on synthetic test is that you will be infertile while you are on it. I imagine for 99% of the guys on this forum that is not a bad thing anyways.

Some Natural ways for guys of all ages to keep test at solid levels :

Vitamine D3 - Depending on the time of year you need more or less of this. Sounds odd, but trust me it works.

ZMA - Zinc Magnesium Aspertate - This taken at night helps to relax the muscles , provide better rest and heighten test. levels while sleeping.

Hey Menace,

First I read the description he has on his blog called "how to gain 34 pounds of muscle in 4 weeks'. I did that program for one month and the major difference was actually just my approach to lifting. I guess I have been on a plateau for a couple of years, and just that little difference of lifting in a 5/5 cadence made a huge impact. I didn't gain 34 pound though, more likely something like 8-9. I also made sure to eat plenty of protein - or at least that is what I thought.

Now that I've read the chapter in his book (around 90 pages about adding muscle) I have come to the conclusion that there were a couple of things I had missed:

- I didn't eat enough protein. You actually get a lot less than you need in a normal diet, in order for the body to produce muscle mass. One egg is roughly 7 grams of protein, and you need around 2 grams per kilo of lean bodyweight.
I have now corrected this by measuring total protein intake and adding milk and whey protein to my diet. (along with creatine, which is also recommended by Tim.) In fact I feel that I am non stop full - as in too much - but no pain, no gain, I guess.

-I didn't work out my entire body, and hence didn't achieve the testosteron boost which could speed up the muscle building process.

-Another key was that I didn't always exercise until complete failure. A little too often I got lazy in the gym, not giving 100% or not increasing the resistance on the weight.

By correcting all these things I am pretty confident that the result for the next month will be even better. I am not saying that the first sloppy version didn't work - it certainly did and people who knew nothing of my experiment were complementing the results.

Quote: (01-11-2011 11:53 AM)beebopaloo Wrote:  

By correcting all these things I am pretty confident that the result for the next month will be even better. I am not saying that the first sloppy version didn't work - it certainly did and people who knew nothing of my experiment were complementing the results.

Thanks for the tips. I'm adding milk to my diet, I'm just one of those people who can consume large amounts and not gain weight. I don't expect to gain 34 lbs of muscle, but I'd be pretty happy with 10 lbs.

I also need to decrease my body fat %, which is 15 right now by my measurement. It wasn't clear to me whether his protocol also caused a decrease in body fat as well.

Quote: (01-11-2011 09:43 AM)Menace Wrote:  

Quote: (01-10-2011 04:18 PM)thekiller Wrote:  

Menace-How old are you? You might not have low testosterone to begin with.
I'm 40 and had had a blood test not long ago say I was in the low-normal range for testosterone. I've changed 3 things thanks to TIM.
I've been eating breakfast within 1 hour of getting up.
Instead of that expensive pill fish oil/butter combo, I take 1 teaspoon of Liquid Cod Liver Oil, and a small pat of European butter on half a 9 grain English Muffin Morning/Night.(I plan to order the KerryGold Butter Online sometime soon.)
I eat a small serving of Kimchi once a day (Health magazine names it one of the 5 healthiest foods, plus it's good tasting.)
In 3 days I noticed a difference in testosterone. Morning erections are much more URGENT, I have more vivid randy thoughts during the day, plus I feel noticeably more confident/aggressive.

I'm 37, so similar age to you. I don't actually think my testosterone is low, I just want it to be higher. I'm going to finish the supplement and try what you're doing, because I'm really not feeling the things you describe. What is the brand of European butter, and where did you buy it (I'm in the US)? I'll try and switch to Kimchi as well. Thanks for the tips.

It's Challenge Butter, European Style-Supposedly Costco carries KerryGold, my local one has their cheese but not Irish Butter. Amazon has it and some other grass-fed butters but the shipping makes them too expensive. I'm thinking of switching to Ghee as that has a similar nutrient profile and isn't as expensive.

I really had to increase my protein intake too, for as long as I've been working out I'm positive now my lack of gains in the past was not enough protein. I figured as a meat eater I had more than enough, but when I finally started doing the math I found I was way short. I've started using milk in my protein shakes, switched to Greek yogurt, having some almond or peanut butter on celery before bed, and for a fast meal with good protein payload look at a can of chili.

Rocco81-I'll talk to my Doc about the cream next time I see him.
I used to take ZMA and it works but it always gave me really bad acne. Same with Tribilus.
This Tim Ferris protocol seems to work good without pissing off my skin.

Killer : That is the problem with heightened testosterone. You get allot of good with a little bad. For me, I have not messed with performance enhancing stuff for years...since my early 20's but yes I was on the real deal just for lifting etc and I felt absolutely great. Everything was heightened, good mood, great sleep, great strength, fat loss, huge sexual appetite etc (this was only really mild doses too) however since I'm predisposed to balding the high test level def. sped that up so I stopped it.

rocco-what dose were you on? Brand/ether? I have a script fyi for "anti-aging" (i'm mid thirties and look 27 or so)...

Tim ferris is a snake oil salesman. Building a good body requires a LOT of time eating right and at LEAST four vicious workouts a week....he's a real con man in my book. His "vanquisher of four mma champions" claim has already proven to be a fraud on bullshido.com...do a search...the guy is a fckn' clown with good story telling ability, much like tucker maxx

Quote: (01-10-2011 09:54 AM)Menace Wrote:  

Quote: (01-09-2011 10:15 AM)beebopaloo Wrote:  

I have been looking to add muscle so I have mainly been focusing on those chapters so far, and am really content with my results. Everything seems to be well backed up by science and self experimentation.

This is my main interest as well. How much did you put on in the first week (or two)? I have gained strength, but have not put on any weight. I think my problem is that I need to eat more, despite eating ~3000 cal/day and like 180g of protein (both of which are over what I need to eat for my body weight).

I have also been doing the testosterone thing, but after about 2 weeks I can't say I feel any different.

The Occam's Protocol chapters are the best for adding muscle. You probably need to eat more, that really is the hardest part.

My goal was 4,000 calories per day and over 200g of protein. I've hit the protein daily but my daily calories is only averaging around 3,500.

Even still, my starting weight was 152.6lbs and now 10 days later I am 156.8 lbs. Best amount of weight gain I've ever had, I am just a naturally skinny dude. I've weight lifted on and off for the past 3 years or so but never got much results until this.

My workout (from Occam's Protocol)
One set, taken to failure
3 minutes rest in between exercises

A workout -
Yates bent Over Row - 7 reps at 5/5 cadence
Barbell shoulder press - 7 reps at 5/5 cadence

2 days rest in between

B workout-
Decline bench press- 7 reps 5/5 cadence
Squat - 10 reps 5/5 cadence

--
20 minutes of gym time twice a week, thats it.