So I'm currently in pre-med at university and I plan on going to medical school in the future. One thing I've found so far is that it's very difficult to manage my time with the excessive amount of work I have from all of my classes. Im trying to incorporate physical activity and doing approaches into my lifestyle but with the amount of stress thats comes with the grades necessary to even get into a medical program, it sometimes feels too overwhelming and I'm forced to just focus solely on school. Also my priority is to get into a north american school so I could potentially specialize as a surgeon, as I know many foreign trained medical doctors have a tough time getting into surgical programs in north america. Another option I have is to go somewhere abroad like Australia, Ireland or the Caribbean. I may not have as much opportunities of coming back to Canada but at least I would have the peace of mind knowing that by passing my courses I will reach my goal of becoming a medical doctor. The money is great and I know of many specialists who make close to 2 million dollars where i live and my tuition is paid for so that isn't really an issue for me. I also have a genuine passion for this career path and human physiology is something I've always enjoyed studying.

Lately however I have been debating whether this shit is even worth it. I'm a 20 years old virgin right now and I do not get any girls. My friends are pretty much all alphas and get laid like crazy and I'm the odd one out of the bunch which can be very discouraging. I got introduced to game in grade 11 and since then I've been implementing the strategies and found some success in my ability to attract women but I still haven't been able to get laid. Its very frustrating but whats even more frustrating is that I barely even have the opportunity to practice talking to women any more. Ive also gotten really fat over the course of my university life so far after i quit doing mma in high school and started eating shitty food at university. Based on my current situation what would you guys recommend. Would you even bother with medical school. Its going to take me 11 more years to become a specialist and I would be making lots of money but becoming a neurotic beta in the process doesnt seem worth it to me atm. I am going to be take the next 4 months off and designate that time specifically to personal development but at this point in time i feel lost with no sense of direction and any advice from you guys would be great. Thanks.

1. Get your life together first. You have no time to talk to girls? You're in university, it doesn't get better than that. Also, if you got introduced to game when you were in grade 11, you must have been 16 years old. What have you been doing game wise for 4 years?

2. Canadian med schools are very competitive because there are so few of them. Only 5 in Ontario, right? (I was once pre-med). Are you good enough to be a radiologist or dermatologist? Those are the best lifestyle specialties. You say many specialists make 2 million dollars, but what is their life like? How many hours do they work? Out of all the doctors there are, how many make 2 million dollars? Are you really in that small percentage? Not trying to get you down, but you need to be realistic.

3. Lose fat. Get fit. Stop eating shit.

Medical school is no joke, dont jump in unless you def want to be a doctor. I didnt get laid at 20 either, late 20's I couldnt stop getting laid.

NO EXCUSES on not working out. You get lunch breaks don't you?

Regardless of your future plans switch out of premed while there's still time. Med schools prefer people with degrees in traditional majors like chemistry, biology, any engineering, math, physics, even history over pre-med. It will also give you something to do if you decide later on that med school isn't worth it. The few friends of mine who were very successful in med school (Harvard, Columbia, etc.) all majored in something wildly different had successful starter careers, then went to night school to brush up on the pre-med stuff and applied 3-4 years after undergrad.

Quote: (03-09-2013 05:41 PM)Ensam Wrote:  

Regardless of your future plans switch out of premed while there's still time. Med schools prefer people with degrees in traditional majors like chemistry, biology, any engineering, math, physics, even history over pre-med. It will also give you something to do if you decide later on that med school isn't worth it. The few friends of mine who were very successful in med school (Harvard, Columbia, etc.) all majored in something wildly different had successful starter careers, then went to night school to brush up on the pre-med stuff and applied 3-4 years after undergrad.

I should've been more specific I'm actually a biochemistry major and i may do a minor in biological sciences. I just said pre med because Im doing this degree before I try and get into med school.

Quote: (03-09-2013 05:33 PM)TheCaptainPower Wrote:  

Medical school is no joke, dont jump in unless you def want to be a doctor. I didnt get laid at 20 either, late 20's I couldnt stop getting laid.

NO EXCUSES on not working out. You get lunch breaks don't you?

my class schedule this semester is very condensed so I don't have a lunch break but I start at 1130 4 days a week and I have thursdays off so I can definitely work out in the morning or evenings. I started working out earlier in the semester but I got a lot of exams/projects coming up and I'm extremely behind which is why I don't have as much time to go anymore.

In my opinion no:

-compensation is declining along with prestige.

-a lot of patients are diagnosing themselves on the internet and come armed with arguments that yes, can and often do stack up against what you learned in medical school.

-huge amounts of insurance and medicare work.

-the path is not easy to become a doctor: four years of undergraduate work where you face tough math and science courses then four years of medical school (at the tune of $200,000 bucks), then a few years of low pay 100 hour work week internships and residency. That is a lot of your youth and money you could be spending chasing poon.


And the amount of women that will bang you because you are a doctor is not worth pursuing in my opinion. Your status may net you a gold digger but keep in mind the sex will always be used as a negotiation tool for access to your checking account.

If you want to stay on the medical path I would go for nurse practitioner or physicians assistant:

-You get to diagnose and treat patients and do patient education without all the paper work, managing the office, or decade long (again $200,000) training. It is all under a doctor's supervision but most of the time it is indirect supervision.

-You get to enjoy many of the benefits of being a physician with few of the liabilities.

-training takes two to three years.

-paperwork and management responsibilities are few.

-the job market will be strong for years to come.

-You don't make a doctor's salary but 76k a year ain't bad at all.


Something to consider.

Quote: (03-09-2013 05:30 PM)Menace Wrote:  

1. Get your life together first. You have no time to talk to girls? You're in university, it doesn't get better than that. Also, if you got introduced to game when you were in grade 11, you must have been 16 years old. What have you been doing game wise for 4 years?

2. Canadian med schools are very competitive because there are so few of them. Only 5 in Ontario, right? (I was once pre-med). Are you good enough to be a radiologist or dermatologist? Those are the best lifestyle specialties. You say many specialists make 2 million dollars, but what is their life like? How many hours do they work? Out of all the doctors there are, how many make 2 million dollars? Are you really in that small percentage? Not trying to get you down, but you need to be realistic.

3. Lose fat. Get fit. Stop eating shit.

1. I agree with you on the fact that being in university is one of the best scenarios in terms of gaming girls. I don't know why but for some reason day game just seems so difficult to me. Ive done a couple approaches during the day on the sky train with girls who i noticed were in my classes but they just gave me awkward looks and seemed very uninterested. Im also trying to keep in contact with girls in my classes and I'm talking to them regularly but i haven't been able to escalate beyond that. I plan on reading bang and day bang soon when i get the time so hopefully I can learn about day game. In terms of what I've been doing game-wise, my game has actually remained very stagnant. I went through periods where i tried implement some of the things i learned but always failed at it and never remained consistent with it, which i really regret to this day.

2. I believe I have the capability to become a medical doctor for me its just been very difficult in the time management aspects of it. When i do well in school it always comes at the expense of any form of balance in my life which I want to change. In terms of the lifestyle of doctors, I'm not entirely sure but I do know that some specialties like radiology (which I'm leaning towards) do offer great lifestyles.

3. Im starting to cut out all the junk food and I pack my own lunches now. This summer Im gonna take the semester off to focus on working out.

Quote: (03-09-2013 06:28 PM)Captain Ahab Wrote:  

-the path is not easy to become a doctor: four years of undergraduate work where you face tough math and science courses then four years of medical school (at the tune of $200,000 bucks), then a few years of low pay 100 hour work week internships and residency. That is a lot of your youth and money you could be spending chasing poon.


And the amount of women that will bang you because you are a doctor is not worth pursuing in my opinion. Your status may net you a gold digger but keep in mind the sex will always be used as a negotiation tool for access to your checking account.

These are two points which always come up in my mind. I was thinking about pharmacy a little while ago as well. 6 figure pay a year and I can finish school by 25/26 v.s. 31/32 but I'm not entirely sure what I'm gonna do yet. I guess I just gotta stay on the grind, work hard and then see where I go from there.

@ Jazzman You start at 11:30? with only 4 days a week? Come on man, you making excuses...

I work with people from Goldman Sachs everyday who work 14 hours a day and still work out, real life is going to bite you in the ass if you don't start pushing yourself. Work out Thursday, sat, sun, and tuesday morning. And make sure you are hitting up those wends happy hours with thurs off!!!!

Working out aside, I think you should go for it! Being a Doctor isn't easy, but if you are into it I say go for it. I never met an unemployed doctor, I have a couple friends who aren't making the big bucks yet that they expected, but they are ALL working.

For women, you need to start going out. I didnt score alot in College either, but I put in HOURS of practice and it paid off big time in my later 20's. Also you need to learn some networking skills, trust me there is a lot of politics in getting hired as a Doctor also, and you are going to need some "game"

How come no spring break??

I'm going to go to med school in the next cycle (enrolling in 2014). This conclusion came from exhausting all other career interests and possibilities beforehand, and gained the perspective I needed to be certain that medicine will be my career. So, if you're unsure by your third/fourth year if you want to go into medicine, then I suggest pursuing something else that interests you and see it all the way. That's what I did with cooking, and saw that it was a passion better suited as a hobby and did not fulfill me the way working in a hospital back in undergrad did.

That said, lets expound on what others said above:

If you're set on applying to med school in north america (specifically the US, which graduating from med school in this country will allow you to practice practically anywhere else in the world), you'll judged based on: GPA, MCAT score, EC activities, letters of rec from professors and advisors, out of state vs in state, your interview, undergrad course load rigor, and other minor factors. In the US, you can get in to med school with as low as a 3.2 GPA. Race may play a role in med school acceptance too: (http://mjperry.blogspot.com/2012/02/do-m...-from.html)

All that being said, your chances of getting into med school decrease the lower your GPA is, so don't slack off.

While GPA is important, doing well on the MCAT is just as, if not, more important. Data from the AAMC have shown that there is a strong correlation between doing well on the MCAT and doing well in med school (s = 0.7), while having a high undergrad/grad GPA is less telling (s = 0.49). These numbers are from the Kaplan Review presentations that I attend--I can verify the source later if needed.

Also, you should know that the MCAT is going through a major overhaul and creating a newer version to reflect what US med schools are teaching their med students. You may or may not know, but the AAMC has removed the writing section of the MCAT for 2013-2014, and is replacing it with an optional, 45 min long trial section (which, if you agree to take, you're given a $30 amazon gift card. Not bad considering you're taking a test for 5.5 hours). The purpose of this trial section is to test new questions for the future MCAT, which will be first administered Feb 2015. This new MCAT will be significantly longer (5.5 hours vs 7-8 hours), and will test you on not only what you're currently being tested on (physical sciences, life sciences, reading comp), but will expand to include research methods, sociology, psychology and biosocial behavior. You should take all this into serious consideration if you plan on applying in the next few years.

Consider also that specializing in surgery, anesthesiology, or any high demand medicine occupation--will pay you more--but usually at the expense of your time. Make sure you know what your priorities are; it will be tougher to get ONS when you're always on call.

I hope taking the time off will do some good for you--pursue other interests, build your body, go get laid. You can always shadow doctors at a hospital during this time, or become an ER scribe if there are scribe programs established at your local hospitals.

I left out some details for sake of brevity. If you have any questions, feel free to PM me.

You are right Captain Power, I'm not pushing as hard as I should. Its official I'm gonna immerse myself into this stuff. Read and learn from this forum and apply it when I go out, work out regularly and study and stay on top of school. Im sure I can do it if i put my mind to it and I dedicate myself! Thanks for your input it definitely reinforced what i need to do in order to succeed.

In my university we don't actually have a "spring break". I had a reading break for one week mid February where I went out and partied with my buddies but Im not gonna have any time off until the end of April when my semester ends.

@La Familia I wasn't aware of the changes to the mcat so ill definitely take that into consideration. If I continue to do well my GPA will hopefully be around 3.5/3.6 by the time I graduate. I also have an upward trend because I fucked up my first two years but have been getting all A/A+ grades since then, which I'm sure will be to my favour. This summer I plan on job shadowing a couple surgeons and volunteering at a few places as well. I think I'm on the right track so far but we'll see how things play out. Thanks for that post!

Which University are you at?

Honestly, med schools not worth it unless you really really want to be a doctor. You're completely sacrificing your 20s, and not in a good way either. Guys like YMG make cash and hustle, but they still have some time left for partying/hooking up with girls. From everyone I've heard, med school is fucking hard and leaves you 0 time. Sounds like for the same effort you'd probably make the same amount of more in other professions.

I know for a fact that I can't do med school. I need my 8 hours of sleep every day or I can't function. My focus has been to maximize the productivity of my waking hours and I've made huge strides in that aspect. I'd rather work at 100 percent for 8-9 hours a day, then at 50 percent for 16 hours a day.

The reason you're not seeing any results from game is because you aren't going out enough. Getting good at this shit requires a shitton of pain that you have to go through. If it wasn't for game I'd be a shy awkward virgin. I have a long way to go and I still suck at game, but who I am has completely changed and I'm proud of the work put in. You also have to analyze shit and figure out where you're going wrong. You cant' really improve unless you're doing a good number of approaches each week. Doing like 3 approaches a week isnt' really going to improve your game that much.

As for your diet, clean it up. You're fat cause you eat like shit. Most Americans/Canadians do. Cut all processed junk and anything containing gluten out of your diet. Most Uni students I know eat like shit, but most of them work out or have good genes so they stay skinny. I'm guessing you don't. Its super fucking easy to not eat bad shit.

Read the Ultramind Solution too. Great book that will help you focus better at school and improve your productivity. I put in 10 hours of productive studying on Thursday without adderal, coffee, or energy drinks. Start meditating and eating well and you should be good.

@Toronto Kid:

m cutting out the bad food and in terms of genetics it depends how you look at it. I put on weight easily almost like an offensive lineman. I can put on lots of muscle in very short periods of time but if I stop working out and I eat like shit I immediately get fat. My peak physical fitness was the beginning of grade 12. I was about 6'3 215 lbs 15% body fat. After I quit mma shit went down hill. Started Eating like shit and drinking more and ballooned up to 265 but I'm working on it now and like you said I'm cutting out all the processed food and all that shit we're so accustomed to eating here in North America.

Ill give that book a read during this summer, thanks for the referral.

@Toronto Are people fat in Canada also? When I went to montreal I couldnt believe how skinny people were. Or is that just a quebec thing?

Quote: (03-09-2013 05:14 PM)Jazzman92 Wrote:  

Is medical school worth it?

No.

i have to cosign for what capitan ahab wrote above. why wait 8 years plus to start making a good paycheck and even then you still owe hundred of thousands when a much quicker and easier path would be to nurse practitioner. only 2 years of school, much much less debt and a solid income with great job security all while avoiding the paper work and liabilities which ruin many doctors lives today.

ultimately i would make my decision to become a doctor on future lifestyle economics. so if you anticipate big expenses in your future like a trophy wife, giant house in the suburbs and several kids in private school then becoming a doctor is the path you should go. if you dont require that and would prefer to live as a single guy or if you have wife and kids down the line and reprive them of private schools, big house and your wife being unemployed and pampered then a nurse salary should be fine.

Medical school is worth it if you are interested in medicine.

If you want to become an MD for the status, money and women...no. I just know too many MDs in my circle and family who have neither of the aforementioned.

if you want to go to med school then hold off until at least your late 20s - don't apply right after undergrad at 22. srs.

of course work hard at school now so you have a good transcript to bank on when the time comes, but otherwise focus on game, socializing, weighlifting & dieting, travel, etc. this is what your 20s are for. you have the whole rest of your life to work after that.

It's always worth it.

-You'll always have a job: people will always get sick.
-Status: I have a friend who just graduated. He's chubby (though he's lost about 30 pounds and is not that chubby now), he's about 5'2''. But he's a doctor now. As soon as he says that, women start getting interested in him. I've seen it.

Of course, to be a good doctor you must love medicine. Otherwise you'll be a mediocre one. Albeit probably with money.

Quote: (03-10-2013 12:10 PM)Pete Wrote:  

-Status: I have a friend who just graduated. He's chubby (though he's lost about 30 pounds and is not that chubby now), he's about 5'2''. But he's a doctor now. As soon as he says that, women start getting interested in him. I've seen it.

You are trolling. Pics or it didn't happen.

Quote: (03-10-2013 12:36 PM)Thomas the Rhymer Wrote:  

Quote: (03-10-2013 12:10 PM)Pete Wrote:  

-Status: I have a friend who just graduated. He's chubby (though he's lost about 30 pounds and is not that chubby now), he's about 5'2''. But he's a doctor now. As soon as he says that, women start getting interested in him. I've seen it.

You are trolling. Pics or it didn't happen.

Why would I troll? I come here and post regularly.

I'm not saying he says he's a doctor and women drop their panties. But I've noticed soon as he says he is one, they get more interested in him.

I'm not going to post pictures of my friends here.

I really hate to say it, but I don't think "doctor" is a good job right now unless you're really, really interested in helping people. It's a noble profession, and if you're talented you can make a difference in people's lives in a way that you can't by working in the marketing department.

But the trend right now is that things are getting harder and harder for doctors. Government interference and mandates are taking up more and more of their time, and that means less time spent actually helping patients. Medicare is eating away at their earnings. And Obamacare is going to make it all a thousand times worse. I've seen too many doctors say this in too many different places for it to not be true.

If you're asking the question at all, you're probably not dedicated to it enough to make it worth your time.

I'll second everyone else's advice about losing weight, too. It's not that hard. Restrict your calories, and do a basic set of exercises every day. You can bang out 100 pushups, 100 squats, and 100 situps in less than a half hour, and you'll feel better, look better, and I guarantee you'll start getting more female attention.

Lol you sound like a typical "grinder"... Aka the undergrad premeds who pull all nighters and have crazy amounts of stress. I was like that too my freshman year.

Not trying to be a dick, but I'm at a top 20 med school now, and graduated from a top undergrad school with a degree in biochem and a minor in public health, but you have to handle your shit and not be a little bitch.

My undergrad semesters I took 15 hours a semester, researched 10 hours a week, and was part of 4 honor societies... Weekend mornings were spent volunteering or working on other side hustles. Now, I didn't get laid every week, but I got laid a whole lot more than the traditional premeds/engineers/CS majors.

It starts 100% with time management during the weekdays. I would take morning classes and work through the time blocks where I wasnt in class, take an hour off four lunch. Study and do homework for another 2-3 hours in the afternoon, go into research lab for a couple more hours, and then spend another hour going over all of my notes/problem sets that I did for the entire day. I also pretty much did schoolwork for about 5 hours on Sunday so my busy days were easier to handle. By the time 7-8pm came around I was completely done with school work; my nights were spent lifting, jogging, playing pickup ball at the rec, smokin pot/hookah'ing... You get the point. And by the time Thursday/Friday/Saturday night came around, I partied just as hard... If not harder than anyone else. Got just as much pussy as some of the kids in easy as shit majors and had a blast.

Apart from time management the other thing that I would emphasize would be focus. When you're working throughout the day, turn off your phone. Stay away from facebook and twitter during the day. Find the most isolated spot on campus and study there. To absolutely kill it in the science classes you need to put deep fucking focus to gain that intuition. 2 hours of intense, deep focus beats 6 hours of bullshit "studying," and if you do this day in and day out with the combination of focusing in class you should be able to easily be in that 3.7~ish sweet spot with a good amount of free time to do whatever the fuck you want at night. If you do all of this I'm sure you could limit the amount of all nighters and painful ass marathon studying sessions that pre-meds think are necessary to succeed.

It's undergrad man... When in life are you going to have the chance to walk up behind some sluts on a frat party dance floor and start caveman grinding on her? Have fun man. Do shit that you wouldn't normally do. Study abroad a semester, dress like a fucking champ, attend guest lectures, get out there and meet people. Being a premed shouldn't limit you whatsoever... Focus on being a well rounded, interesting person... It'll pay off once med school interviews come around.