Athlone, do you have any idea where this Jamaican prejudice against Africans emanates? Many Jamaicans are quite dark themselves. Look at Usain Bolt, he looks 100% African genetically and he's a hero in Jamaica. What gives? Is it for cultural reasons or racial reasons?

It's also interesting what you say about the black families that disapprove of their kids dating whites. I guess there is a lot of that as well, though I think black families are generally more lenient of it. My dad talked a bit of shit when my sister started dating this white guy she's still with. But when the guy was around he was friendly to him. I don't think they give a flying fuck who I date. It tends to be the daughters people are most concerned about. I was surprised when I found out years ago that Kobe Bryant's family was pissed at him for marrying Vanessa because she's Hispanic. I personally don't know any black folks who are really extreme against interracial dating, except for some angry black women. But in their case, it's not so much racism as it is fear of them being at the losing end in the sexual marketplace.

I don't think it's about family. It's about their friends and public eyes.
(Would you do bad things like a drug if you think about 'what your mom and dad would say?')
When I mingle with white girls, some asian girls look at me.
I know it's a jealous type of look, not like 'looking down' type.

But what if white guy sees a white girl making out with an asian guy? how would they look at her? would it affect her current behavior?
(let's be honest. any local guys don't like their local women hanging out with foreign looking guys)
What about her friends? would they approve it or make a gossip about it?

Even I am bothered with public eyes when I am with some white girl.
Wouldn't it affect her as well?
Unless she is strongly into a minority guy, why would she want to go through such Hardship when she can just date someone like her and
she won't be judged?

I just Know this and I Know it's True but it seems like I can't talk about this. I just have to swallow whether it's bitter or sweet.

anyways, I live in 90% white state. so that's why I keep talking about white girls.
I will probably go out solo tonight and hit on any girls I like just like yesterday.

Quote: (12-22-2012 02:01 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

I think the biggest hurdle with regards to race is families. Many chics are DTF with a guy of a different race as long as nobody finds out about it.

Quote: (12-22-2012 01:10 PM)Jaydublin Wrote:  

Quote: (12-22-2012 04:12 AM)Sebastian Wrote:  

White guys in U.S go to South America or South East Asia and they get better treatment by women.
Minority guys come to U.S and they get treated worse.
I think it's a Zero Sum Game. If someone is getting a benefit, someone else is suffering.

When I was in Lithuania I chose to Hang with minorities exclusively because the girls worshiped them, which helped me a ton... Black, Filipino, Guatemalan, Puerta Rican...... Lets not forget how well minorities can kill it in EE... Hell, probably most of Europe

Yeah and Mixx was saying girls were going crazy over tan skin around Fargo. I guess any state might be good where it's mainly white and you'll stick out. They don't really have anyone to compare to you to and you're exotic.

Sebastain, I wasn't saying to act white to get girls. I'm saying a lot of minorities who act white and only have white friends have it easier getting white girls.

This type of stuff makes me laugh, I am older than most of you guys and have tons of stories to share about growing up black in a white neighbourhood.

The first thing that comes to mind is that you must demonstrate higher value, plain and simple.
As a black guy we are facing negative stereotypes on a daily basis, this is deliberate of course but that is a deeper topic.
Your job as a black man is too fight these stereotypes and show people you are not the "norm". You are judged on how you dress, talk, walk and behave on a daily basis.
I currently work for a multi-national company and I am shocked that some people are nervous around me, they don't know how to read me or how to behave. I am certainly not going to play the "jiggaboo" role because I feel I don't need too, since I am above all that.

I don't put ANY girl on a pedestal, I certainly don't give any value to white girls either. If the OP is finding it hard to game girls in his town, then he has to find another city or quite frankly change something about himself. I find alot of white girls I meet want to get serious with me which of course I don't want at all, not some white girl over age 30. Strangely enough I have had a few of them come out and directly ask me if I only date black girls and of course they always assume you have some kids running around somewhere. They never seem to ask me if I am married. lol

Quote: (12-21-2012 10:24 AM)Apollo2 Wrote:  

...Again, this isn't saying at all that it's impossible to like amazingly hard to get a white girl if you are black (one that doesn't already like black guys on her own)...

I have dated white girls (not the stereotypical big ones) that, at certain times, were easier to get than some black girls I've approached. And I've also dated black girls that, well.. also at certain times, were easier to get than some white girls I've approached. It really all depends on the girl, the environment, the city, the venue, etc. At least in my situation.

When it comes to getting physical, hooking up, stuff like that.. I admit, my radar tends to look for the white or spanish girls. Even though as long as she looks good and has a cool personality, I don't care what ethnicity she is. There's this black chick I saw the other week that if I had a chance to be exclusive with her, trust me, I would definitely be sticking with my own. Lol. And yet ironically, when it comes to a relationship, having kids, or something beyond, part of me would rather do exactly that. But hey, I've never been in a relationship nor in a position where I've come to that crossroad, so who knows. But yeah, if I feel like that, then imagine most girls.

Quote: (12-22-2012 09:37 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

The first thing that comes to mind is that you must demonstrate higher value, plain and simple.

Yep. No way around this.

Quote:Quote:

As a black guy we are facing negative stereotypes on a daily basis, this is deliberate of course but that is a deeper topic.
Your job as a black man is too fight these stereotypes and show people you are not the "norm". You are judged on how you dress, talk, walk and behave on a daily basis.

I think another way to phrase this is that you have to be race-transcending. Think Barack Obama. He's not race-neutral, or race-negating. He transcends his race and knows how to appeal to people of all races. The power of your personality and who you are has to far outshine whatever skin you were born into.

Minority guys I've seen that have a combination of high value(great lifestyle, job, some money) combined with being race transcending figures tend to do well with women of any background.

Location of course is another key factor. I don't care how good your game is, you are going to have a way more difficult time pulling quality white chics in the Florida panhandle than you would in Australia. That's just a fact of life. A logistical problem that game and a good lifestyle may help, but won't completely neutralize.

Quote: (12-22-2012 05:56 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

Athlone, do you have any idea where this Jamaican prejudice against Africans emanates? Many Jamaicans are quite dark themselves. Look at Usain Bolt, he looks 100% African genetically and he's a hero in Jamaica. What gives? Is it for cultural reasons or racial reasons?

It isn't about the looks generally. The cultural differences are the main factor (ex: difference views on family formation, religion, etc). In the case of my grandmother, there was also just a healthy does of plain fear/xenophobia.

I only read your post so excuse any redundancy guys.

I went to one of the biggest DI schools in the nation. I met a stocky, half-black, half-white dude during my sophomore year. We slowly became friends through the classes in our major. Anyways, I noticed that he was getting high quality girls of all races. By the time he graduated, he locked up a legit black chick who is now attending Harvard Law. He went on to medical school at Howard. Anyways, a few months after graduation, I called him to catch up and ended up talking about his success (with girls) in college.

The first words out of his mouth was to 'stick with [my race] girls.' Keep in mind he hooked up with quality girls of all races. He told me that girls would hook up but if he ever wanted to get serious, they would say 'I don't think I could take you home to my parents' etc. Having had my longest ltr outside my race, I have a inkling that interracial dating is at the very least swimming upstream. If not race, then it will be culture. We tend to like people who look like ourselves. There are enough pitfalls in relationships (of any sort) to have to deal with the extra squirt of anxiety that comes from dating outside your race. People can say "I don't give a shit what others think" blah blah but they do care. We all do. We're human after all. For some it may be worth the trouble, but after getting deeper into the game and examining my results; the dude was being real with me.

Btw I find that black girls are always the most down no matter what race you are

Quote: (12-21-2012 10:24 AM)Apollo2 Wrote:  

I really don't take the time to post or read on the game forums too much these days but kind of felt as though this was something I wanted to post about just in case it might help some guys out there who may be working on game, but feel as though their results aren't matching their improvements in skill they are making. I've gamed in various different countries around the world.... with women from all different types of backgrounds as well as met/helped some guys from the community as well. This was an issue that I noticed with other minorities in game that really helped improve ALL their results.

I started like most people out there... coming from a low point in life wanting to work on my skills with women or just socially in general and improve as a person. I was making lots of progress going out probably 5-6 nights a week, seriously committed to getting this area of my life handled. I had taken various workshops with different companies that I felt were instrumental in getting me on the right track and definitely VERY valuable from just a life standpoint in general, as well as my game. I felt myself getting much better skill wise with women and was very pleased with how things were coming along but it felt as though I hit somewhat of a wall in terms of the results I was getting. I was able to get phone #s no problem, make outs no problem, day 2s much less frequently, and a full close much less frequently if ever. I figured there had to be something wrong with my game, some kind of leak in my personality that I simply needed to work on since that's what the game had taught me, that the game is the game is the game and if something went wrong it's in your control to fix it. Well that was true for sure, but the answer I ended up finding to help solve my issue wasn't really written about extensively in the community, at least that i'd seen anyway, or if it was the extent to how big of an impact it would have on your results was not stressed in any meaningful way to get my attention.

Basically, I was a black guy that was gaming/practicing/sarging in venues with white girls that basically were not very much into black guys. Yes, I know there are white girls that love black guys, I've hooked up with those not a problem, but the standard white girl that I was trying to pick up was not into a black guy the same way in which she's into another white guy. I mean it's totally understandable, there's added social pressures on her from family/friends for dating outside her race even if unspoken, even if there isn't she might not feel comftorable with it, or a myriad of other reasons that really just go deep into some of the more complex racial/social views that exist in our society. Now for most of the gurus/coaches out there, they probably don't have any experience dealing with this issue since the majority of them are white and go after white girls, and even if they don't other races don't really have the same social risks of dating a white guy as they would from dating a black guy with some of the negative stereotypes we have in general. I really hate playing the "race card" and certainly avoid it in most of my everyday life, but not acknowledging it as having an effect on the results I was getting with women is simply not making the best decision as far as what's going to get me what I want.

Yes I was able to get some results here and there with white girls but not more than white friends of mine who were asking ME for advice on how to game, which further confused me because I had noticeably more game than them. I also spent a lot of time examining this belief of mine that I was developing because I hated the idea of just sitting back and placing all the blame in my lack of results on race. So that's how I ended up gaming in other countries and other races of girls. When I went to some of these countries I had no problem getting day2s, lays, or multiple girlfriends... and it basically felt like the skills I had been honing elsewhere was getting me much better results just by changing where I was playing the game. I also experimented with just gaming solely black girls even though I'm not as into them, JUST to further experiment around and try to find out what it was. The disparity between the results I was getting in general was just incredible. The same sticking points I ran into with girls outside of my race were MUCH less prevalent with girls of the same race as me, or girls in antoher country that was more accepting socially of interracial dating. I even ran online tests using two guys who were pretty much identical in terms of looks and profile, but one was black and one was white and would send the same message with a controlled sample size on both. Again, the difference in results was pretty amazing, and this is an experiemnt you could do on your own.

Again, this isn't saying at all that it's impossible to like amazingly hard to get a white girl if you are black (one that doesn't already like black guys on her own), but it's just saying that the results you are going to get will NOT match your white counter part or the results you would get if you were in your own 'market' so to say. It's kind of like the idea of playing a basketball game but starting the game already down 50 points. You CAN win, you just have to be THAT much better than the other team and become THAT much more skilled than the team you're playing in order to overcome that deficit in points. It can be done with hard work and really finetuning your skills but even then it will not be consistent winnings because some of the time that team will have a bigger initial lead than 50 (when a girl has more social pressures on her or insecurities with dating outside her race than others). Meanwhile another team that just starts off with a score of 0-0 that has the same skill as you is going to win more times overall than you. And yeah, even the times you don't "win" the game, you're still scoring points or sometimes coming close... in the form of getting make outs, #s, getting back to the girls place, LMR, etc.

I mean this post isn't to say white girls are racist BY ANY MEANS AT ALL (just figured i'd state that since I don't even want this to steer that direction), because it's perfectly natural to have your preference in guys, the same way we have our preference in women, some women just like a guy of their own race more than outside of that, perfectly fine. Just being observant because being oblivious would have had me constantly wondering for another 2 years why my results aren't where I want them to be.

Some of you minorities may have already figured this out and that's cool, silly me right? But from what I had read online in all the resources I'd seen and heard was that looks didn't matter, race didn't matter, nothing mattered but game. The most potent resources I had found usually came from Tyler Durden and he'd constantly make comments like "Put me in anyone of yalls body's and I will pull, I WILL", well yeah he'd pull in my body too but not nearly with the same regularity or consistency he does with his own market. I pull in my body as well.

The reason I decided to post this though was because there are a bunch of guys i've met through game that are minorities practicing their game in mostly white venues completely confused as to why they don't get the same results as some of their friends or get the results they feel their skill should dictate. I know for myself, I felt as though my game was really coming along and most of the skills mentioned in game I could do and pretty damn well, but my full closing rates were considerably low. Then as soon as I changed my target market my results pretty much changed instantaneously. Obviously in the USA if I had some kind of venue where I could game non-black girls that just specifically liked black guys I'd have been able to have that realization there as well but it just doesn't really exist. So i'd randomly get girls here and there that liked black guys and i'd get results, whereas gaming in a market where all the girls are open to you basically felt like playing the game from 0-0 for once.

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=158261

Summary of this thread:

1) Looks matter.
2) Location matters.
3) Fishbowl matters.

Not only for minorities but also for majorities. Go where you are wanted and appreciated.

What I am about to post is probably a different topic for a different day but....

I don't understand why some of my brothas are putting white chicks on a pedestal? For the record, I am black, raised in a suburb that was 70% white when my parents moved there and was 60% white when I left for college. I graduated from a predominately white university and have lived in pretty affluent suburban areas of big cities (Pittsburgh, Philly and DC to be exact)...and I can count (in single digits) the number white chicks I banged (they had to basically offer it on a silver platter for me to bang).

I just don't get it...but I digress.

Quote: (12-25-2012 12:31 AM)Giovonny Wrote:  

Summary of this thread:

1) Looks matter.
2) Location matters.
3) Fishbowl matters.

Not only for minorities but also for majorities. Go where you are wanted and appreciated.

In the end EVERYTHING is a factor. How much, it depends on ALL the other environmental factors. Sure, any one factor can be compensated for but the amount of work required to do that could be considerable.

With that said, you would do yourself a great disservice to go out with the mentally that a certain demographic won't work well for you. The key is isolation. IF you can get a girl alone, that changes everything.

One of the biggest things I've had to work on is changing this mentally in myself: thinking that Asian girls aren't into me or very latin girls etc. I was amazed by just who could be interested in me once I approach them with the expectation that I they should find me attractive.

Truly believing something is possible is 50% of making it a reality.

I am not very into white American girls(or American girls in general honestly). But, basic stuff like going in a bar, blazered out, with 7s jeans on and nice black shoes. Ordering, a glass of merlow, and just conversing like you have some sense tends to allow you as a brother to pull in many venues. What, I would get is alot of curiosity...then I would leverage that situation to game. I actually had a white chick say she approached me because I, was a well dressed good looking black dude in bar sipping wine. I've even done this in irish pubs, and gotten my fair share of SNL's. My wing was a white dude(Rich Cat) and he one day said, he wishes he was black but still had the same situation.(he thought thats why I got laid more then him... and sometimes it was).

Once you DHV, the playing field is level. Yeah you have stereotypes to content with initially, but its not as devestating as people talk about on here. Just DHV... and flashing money is NOT the way.(in most instances)

I would say my top white girl notch, was a Pro team cheerleader... who was going to college with me. I met her in the Math tutor lab, where I tutored Calc. She asked for my number, and text me to hang out in a few hours. Well... got a quick bang. But my bangs from white chicks have by faaaar been the fastest and easiest... so I cant see how u guys could pedistalize them. But I will say, its not as consistent as other races...Latinas and Black chicks. Partly because I RARELY approach white chicks. But if I was into white chicks... id never waste to much time in the States chasing them. The racism you get in other countries doesn't hurt your game as much if at all.

Quote: (12-27-2012 04:00 AM)elabayarde Wrote:  

I was a well dressed good looking black dude in bar sipping wine.

This is the strategy that alot of my black friends use. Well dressed, relaxed, and socializing in a classy restaurant/bar. Even better if you are the only black guy there. You will be the exotic one. Keep in mind this in the bay area in northern california so direct racism is not an issue. The rest of the crowd is a mix of white, latin, and asian. A handsome brotha who carries himself with style and grace can do well here.

Yeah, this minority bullshit is just an excuse unless you're in hillbilly country.

I know so many black players, most of them do very well with most types of girls. You just need to work on finding the right niche and optimizing your game.

Change up your style, work on your verbal game, try out different venues.

I don't believe these Indian or Asian guys who complain either. Most of them plain suck and have a shit vibe, dont' know how to escalate. I see tons of brown guys who suck shit in Toronto who are creepy and weird. Just accept your game or vibe sucks shit and work on improving it. I know my game + vibe sucked shit for a very long time and it sure as hell wasn't my race or looks that hurt me.

Quote: (12-25-2012 12:43 AM)UrbanNerd Wrote:  

I don't understand why some of my brothas are putting white chicks on a pedestal?

Because they look sexy as hell. Lol. I'm just playing. But yeah, not all of them are "10's". As I've mentioned in previous posts, of course, I definitely love hooking up with some of them when the opportunity arises. My eyes seem to have a reflex action looking their way when they're around. But that doesn't mean I don't check out other girls. Meaning I've seen some black and spanish girls that look so good, they would wipe the ones on those pedestals off the map. Beautiful girls exist in all shades. At least, the ones I've come across.

Gingers should count as a minority. I've been discriminated so many times and it's not even illegal (thanks US laws)

Quote: (12-27-2012 03:39 PM)torontokid Wrote:  

Yeah, this minority bullshit is just an excuse unless you're in hillbilly country.

I know so many black players, most of them do very well with most types of girls. You just need to work on finding the right niche and optimizing your game.

Change up your style, work on your verbal game, try out different venues.

I don't believe these Indian or Asian guys who complain either. Most of them plain suck and have a shit vibe, dont' know how to escalate. I see tons of brown guys who suck shit in Toronto who are creepy and weird. Just accept your game or vibe sucks shit and work on improving it. I know my game + vibe sucked shit for a very long time and it sure as hell wasn't my race or looks that hurt me.

Preach bro!

There's one more thing that unifies guys with race issues. They don't go out. Every single time I'm out in a shopping centre or the city I see tons of interracial couples of many combinations. There's no way a guy can still believe that "white girls don't like asian/brown guys" unless he doesn't go out much or he's blind.

I can't speak about black guys though because I'm only friends with two but neither have a problem with white girls, although one is a forum member, but I do see black/white, black/brown and tonight black/two asian girls when I'm out.

to be fair, indian guy-white girl combos are rare as fuark. fortunately for indian guys white guy-indian girls combos are just as rare.

black guy-white girl and white guy-asian girl combos are the most common. indian-white combos of any sort are the least common.

not mad, just saying.

Quote: (12-27-2012 03:39 PM)torontokid Wrote:  

Yeah, this minority bullshit is just an excuse unless you're in hillbilly country.

I know so many black players, most of them do very well with most types of girls. You just need to work on finding the right niche and optimizing your game.

Change up your style, work on your verbal game, try out different venues.

I don't believe these Indian or Asian guys who complain either. Most of them plain suck and have a shit vibe, dont' know how to escalate. I see tons of brown guys who suck shit in Toronto who are creepy and weird. Just accept your game or vibe sucks shit and work on improving it. I know my game + vibe sucked shit for a very long time and it sure as hell wasn't my race or looks that hurt me.

How many brown guys do you know personally who are successful with cold approach (with girls outside their race) in Toronto? Just curious.

I've gone to school and worked with brown guys that pulled more white girls than the white guys themselves. Well, maybe not literally, but it seemed like it. When I say brown, I mean Indian and Spanish. In case I mixed it up, I'm still learning the lingo. There was actually a time back then when dudes at school thought those guys had it the best. As far as white girls go though. I didn't see them pulling many black and spanish girls as much. Not that the dudes seemed to mind. Lol. So pretty much, if they're not scoring nowadays with girls, then yeah, it definitely must be an issue with their game not being good. Times have changed, but game remains the same.

Quote: (12-28-2012 12:44 PM)bodmon Wrote:  

to be fair, indian guy-white girl combos are rare as fuark. fortunately for indian guys white guy-indian girls combos are just as rare.

black guy-white girl and white guy-asian girl combos are the most common. indian-white combos of any sort are the least common.

not mad, just saying.

I see shitloads of Indian guy-White girl couples in Australia and I'm not the only guy who thinks so, it's the most common interracial pairing here with a white girl. About as many as Asian guy-white girl which is weird because there are twice as many Asians as there are Indians here. I'm even seeing Indian guy-Asian girl, never the other way around except for one half asian dude I know.

Sidenote, last night at around 4 AM I saw a Black dude (probably East African) holding hands with two hot Asian girls as he walked them up to an apartment.

Quote: (12-28-2012 11:25 PM)P Dog Wrote:  

I see shitloads of Indian guy-White girl couples in Australia and I'm not the only guy who thinks so, it's the most common interracial pairing here with a white girl.

Quote: (12-29-2012 12:03 AM)speakeasy Wrote:  

Quote: (12-28-2012 11:25 PM)P Dog Wrote:  

I see shitloads of Indian guy-White girl couples in Australia and I'm not the only guy who thinks so, it's the most common interracial pairing here with a white girl.

I should add I'm only speaking for Melbourne, and Melbourne definitely has the highest % of brown guys, followed by Sydney. In places with less non-white people they're probably more close minded to it.

Hhaha. I am just going to stand back and laugh at this. Call me a denialist, but this post and every other one like it is the one problem I have with RVF.

Quote: (12-29-2012 12:43 AM)Feo Wrote:  

Hhaha. I am just going to stand back and laugh at this. Call me a denialist, but this post and every other one like it is the one problem I have with RVF.

Could you explain the problem you have?