I don't think I have a problem with approaching.
IMO, approaching is about letting her know you are interested in getting to know her and she will respond if she likes who you are.
(there is no magical line that can flip the switch in her head. Once she is interested in you, all you have to do is just talk normal)

Once in a while, I hit the jackpot. I attract this classy, cute girl of totally my type and she likes me too. But I am bad at converting them for dating.

It's exhausting every time it happens since I had to talk to a lot of girls to find her.

eg) when I had a business, I put the ad on newspaper OR sent out hundreds of flyers. A couple inquiries will come but if I can't close the deal, I just wasted all these efforts and $$$. So it's better to work on your sales skills before doing any advertising.

In sales, I can practice sales speech and follow the guide lines.
But I don't think there is such thing for a first date?

I don't know if I should keep going out and keep failing at converting them. I will eventually learn from it as it happens but you can't practice Converting like Approaching since it doesn't happen often. Plus, I will keep thinking about my wasted effort.

How should I work on that? (building emotional connection)

Fail more. Fail better. Fail faster.

Keep working at it.

Cold approaching is the highest level of game and requires alot of skill and a number of approaches.

This is not for the faint of heart.

Why do this, when you can play social circle....most people in general meet through work, class, and friends.

Have you thought of trying to build a social network?


Its alot easier. Its like walking versus driving a car.

If you still want to do cold approach...your problem is your ability to create attraction and connection.

Quote: (11-20-2012 01:48 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

Fail more. Fail better. Fail faster.

Keep working at it.

Game is just like any other skill. It takes an immense amount of practice and dedication.

You think a concert pianist didn't practice before he played at carnegie hall?

You think Phelps just showed up at the Olympics and turned into a manfish?

Approaches and failures are your practice. SNLs and tight date game are the concert.

Hell yeah game gets discouraging. It wouldn't be as satisfying as it is without the hot and cold streaks.

Best analogy I can think of: Roger Federer. Guy is the smoothest player in the game, makes it look absolutely effortless. But to the common bystander, they'd have no idea the thousands upon thousands of hours it took to get to that level.

You think I started out pulling models and Russians right out of the gates? Absolutely not. It took me session upon session of going out alone, building my confidence, changing my stlye, working on myself physically and mentally.

Strive for this. Next time you see a guy swoop a 9 out of a club/bar/or even the street, think about how many approaches/dates/conversations/etc. he's put in. No one sees the duck's legs paddling furiously beneath the water. Only the smooth exterior on top.

Stop being so worried over your failures. Look back to where you were 6 months ago and then look back 1 year ago. From then to now have you not improved with women? Have you not gained more experience during that time. If not then you have a lot of work to do but if you have then congratulations. You are now on the right track. You're forgetting that patience and perserverence build experience, having experience builds knowledge, and knowledge is power.

Quote: (11-20-2012 01:57 PM)rationalize_this Wrote:  

Roger Federer

Yes, one of my favorite athletes. I hear he is the hardest worker in the game. His level of skill and grace is legendary. One of the smoothest athletes of all time!

Quote: (11-20-2012 02:01 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

Quote: (11-20-2012 01:57 PM)rationalize_this Wrote:  

Roger Federer

Yes, one of my favorite athletes. I hear he is the hardest worker in the game. His level of skill and grace is legendary. One of the smoothest athletes of all time!

I don't even know why guys aim for the date. I always aim for the bang. If you go for the bang and fail you can still go for the date. If your going on dates and still not getting laid then you obviously have a problem with escalating. If you have a problem with escalating then you have a problem with rejection.

Best way to get over rejection issues and actually get laid. Adopt the get laid or get lost mindset. My advice is you drop the indirect style of game if this is what you have been doing. All's it's going to get you is a bunch of numbers and nice conversations.

Sebastian you earned respect in my eyes, You have overcome the hardest part here...... Cold Approaching ......... Nothing is going to stop you from this point on.

I am guessing you are at a stage of Game where you can talk to girls naturally but having problem building a connection, Don't loose hope here, this is where Players will quit and say I have put in endless hours for few flaky numbers, Keep putting in the hard work and learn from your mistakes, soon you will get your breakthrough and will have a AHA moment where you will see what you were doing wrong.

About a year or two ago I had the same problem , I could talk like a mofo, get numbers like a machine but 90% flakes, pissed me the hell off and just like you said I wasn't building a connection and memebers from the forum pointed out what I was doing wrong and yes just like someone else said. Aim for Bang and may be settle for a number only if Insta date is not an Option.

Analyze your Approahes, hell ..... post them in the Approah thread , we wil dissect them, Are you approaching only one kind of girls ? Are you attracting them ? Are you conveying your Intentions or girls just think of you as a chatty friendly guy ? Are you DHV ing/Attracting enough for the girls to start asking you personal questions ? Ramble to find a Commonality and build a connection on it. A place you both might have visited, A book/Movie you both might have seen.

Once you find a commonality/Connection, capitalize on the momentum and set/go for date ASAP and go for the BANG ASAP. In Gio's words " Girls believe in Serendepity ", Let them believe that they met you seredipitously, don't let too much time come in between that allows them to think otherwise.

After putting in thousands of Approaches , you will see which kind of girls are easy for you to attract , Hipsters, Blasks , Latinas, EE Girls etc etc and you will develop a feel/radar for approaching only hte girls that will be attracted to you. You will approach less but with much better success.

Words of a RVF Brother with adavanced Game to live by " I will be happy to take 1 Bang per 100 Approaches "..... Ditto here..... This Game takes hard work and you have to love doing it to able to keep doing it. Myself I am addicted to every aspect of Game......

Happy Hunting my Friend.

Not to go crazy with the tennis analogies again but your use of the word convert had me thinking.
Its like having break points. You do the work within the game to get to that point (approaches, conversation) then you find yourself at a big point juncture. You're not going to convert every time, but put yourself in that situation enough, you'll be able to deal with the pressure better. You'll even start to notice tendencies, girls actions, what works what doesn't, where your opponent likes to serve on those points. You get the picture.
Only way to get better is to experience it.

Explain more about exactly what is happening. You are approaching and getting phone numbers then can't get dates?

Find a niche man. Getting conversions from cold approaching is going to be a huge uphill battle for most guys. When Paul Janka came clean with his numbers that put everything into perspective. He said of the numbers he gets, his conversion rate is about 10%. And I believe he said he gets the number about half the time. So that would mean he bangs about 5% of his approaches. Now keep in mind that this guy is tall and looks like a GQ model and is a professional at talking to women. I find it unlikely a more average guy will do better than he does. Even a guy like him would have to cold approach 20 women in a day to bang one. Factor in that not all of them will be one night stands and may take a couple of dates to get there.

Don't despair, you may not be doing as bad as you think.

Quote: (11-20-2012 04:30 PM)Lothario Wrote:  

Words of a RVF Brother with adavanced Game to live by " I will be happy to take 1 Bang per 100 Approaches "

I'm pretty sure that was me. I remember when it took me damn near 100 approaches to get a bang. I could get numbers but my date game was shitty, my vibe was shitty, my clothes were shitty. I talked my way right out of some potential bangs.

That was about 4 years ago, I was 32, I decided that I was going to start gaming on college campuses. I could get numbers but my date game was weak. I couldn't turn any numbers into bangs. Gradually, I improved my vibe, the way I talked and my date game got much better. I stopped coming across as needy. I learned to relax and not appear eager.

That year, it took me about 80 approaches to get my first bang from a college campus. Remember, I was 32 and I was approaching girls mostly 18-21.

The 2nd one took me about 60 approaches. The 3rd one about 50.

Now, I can usually get something done in 30-40 approaches.

The biggest thing that helped me was improving my dates and improving me pre-planned logistics. If you are not getting the girl drunk and alone you are not giving yourself a chance!!!

Quote: (11-20-2012 10:07 AM)Sebastian Wrote:  

I don't think I have a problem with approaching.
IMO, approaching is about letting her know you are interested in getting to know her and she will respond if she likes who you are.
(there is no magical line that can flip the switch in her head. Once she is interested in you, all you have to do is just talk normal)

Once in a while, I hit the jackpot. I attract this classy, cute girl of totally my type and she likes me too. But I am bad at converting them for dating.

It's exhausting every time it happens since I had to talk to a lot of girls to find her.

eg) when I had a business, I put the ad on newspaper OR sent out hundreds of flyers. A couple inquiries will come but if I can't close the deal, I just wasted all these efforts and $$$. So it's better to work on your sales skills before doing any advertising.

In sales, I can practice sales speech and follow the guide lines.
But I don't think there is such thing for a first date?

I don't know if I should keep going out and keep failing at converting them. I will eventually learn from it as it happens but you can't practice Converting like Approaching since it doesn't happen often. Plus, I will keep thinking about my wasted effort.

How should I work on that? (building emotional connection)

My friend has the exact same style and problem as you. Super social, not even close to being afraid of approaching, but sometimes comes off as an acquaintance rather than a potential date.

You're viewing it too much as a logistics nightmare. The second I stopped focusing on dates and finding an LTR and started focusing on the prize, I was way more successful.

My logic is that you should always try to go for the SNL (albeit in a subtle fashion, e.g. without being too forceful), get the number early, continue the conversation, follow your emotions and instincts (NEVER overthink, it'll be the death of you) and you'll be able to convert at a higher rate.

Stop trying to sell yourself. You're not going out to network, change your frame of mind. I realize this is hard, but just stop giving a fuck and follow your instincts. If "you feel" a girl isn't interested, bail. If she is, continue. Use your emotions, not your logic.

Bitches hate logic. Bitches love to feel. Make them feel something, not think about something.

Thanks for the comments.

I don't get frustrated about not getting numbers or the leads that goes nowhere.
I just look at it as 'when it will come, it will come'

Sometimes, I meet a girl who really likes me. she is just happy to be approached by me and just likes me the way I am. I can feel I am a prize to her. But after a first date, I fuck it up.
So I am failing at building 'emotional connection' stage. Maybe I lack life experience to make conversation interesting. maybe I am not a good story teller. maybe I am bit a different person than when I was at a bar.

Like someone said, I am going to try to relax and not appear eager. I have no problem throwing seductive eyes and start kinoing in a such way. But that has not been successful for me.
I approach all kinds of girls but tend to attract 'good girls' so maybe I have to use different method to cater to different 'customers'