Last week I initiated a meeting with my boss and coincidentally my soon-to-be boss in discussing a potential pay rise for myself.

Now I've been out for university for 2 years and have been working at the practice for 6 months now. I work in health-care and see a variety of clients daily. Basically they pulled out the hard stats (as expected) and couldn't justify a pay-rise based on the fact I wasn't seeing enough clients. Even though I have little control over the number of clients I see on a day-to-day basis (cancellations, no new appointments etc), my recent workload was definitely increasing and bringing the business substantial revenue. And the forecast was that I will be seeing more and more, and my clientele is rapidly increasing. Seems to make sense from the business side of things.

But basically as I inquired, I need to a CONSIDERABLE more patients per day over a period of 5 months - to receive a measly 2 dollar an hr pay rise.

What also pissed me off, was how they flipped the focus onto me. They bought up some trivial flaws and mistakes I've made over my course of employment. - e.g. eating other staff members food without asking, telling me 'you're not the same person we hired at the start'.

Essentially it was David vs Goliath (sans the happy ending). I went into this discussion without a chance.

I have ZERO regrets about asking for the pay-rise. Even though I might have strained the relationship, we will re-convene in a week, where I will let them know of my expectations and suggestions I have to help the practice 'move forward'.

Shit, life would be easier if I was a yes-man.

How would you fellas re-frame a situation like this? Anyone else been in the same boat?

Quote: (10-10-2012 05:49 PM)Prophylaxis Wrote:  

Last week I initiated a meeting with my boss and coincidentally my soon-to-be boss in discussing a potential pay rise for myself.

Now I've been out for university for 2 years and have been working at the practice for 6 months now. I work in health-care and see a variety of clients daily. Basically they pulled out the hard stats (as expected) and couldn't justify a pay-rise based on the fact I wasn't seeing enough clients. Even though I have little control over the number of clients I see on a day-to-day basis (cancellations, no new appointments etc), my recent workload was definitely increasing and bringing the business substantial revenue. And the forecast was that I will be seeing more and more, and my clientele is rapidly increasing. Seems to make sense from the business side of things.

But basically as I inquired, I need to a CONSIDERABLE more patients per day over a period of 5 months - to receive a measly 2 dollar an hr pay rise.

What also pissed me off, was how they flipped the focus onto me. They bought up some trivial flaws and mistakes I've made over my course of employment. - e.g. eating other staff members food without asking, telling me 'you're not the same person we hired at the start'.

Essentially it was David vs Goliath (sans the happy ending). I went into this discussion without a chance.

I have ZERO regrets about asking for the pay-rise. Even though I might have strained the relationship, we will re-convene in a week, where I will let them know of my expectations and suggestions I have to help the practice 'move forward'.

Shit, life would be easier if I was a yes-man.

How would you fellas re-frame a situation like this? Anyone else been in the same boat?

They wanted you to walk away from the meeting feeling somewhat lucky you still have a job, and not too disappointed about being declined a pay raise. That's a pretty standard approach from a management standpoint I think. Regardless, it still sucks for you. Why are you eating other peoples food without asking?

Cardinal rule of office living - don't touch someone else's food. You can fuck with their college team coffee mug, unplug their mouse, whatever prank you feel like, but for god's sake don't take their food.

Quote: (10-10-2012 06:06 PM)CMan0928 Wrote:  

Why are you eating other peoples food without asking?

I can get quite obnoxious at times and it's a relatively small practice - so I assumed it was OK. Apparently not. No shit I won't eat their crumbs anymore. Regardless, is that relevant to me asking for a pay rise?

Quote: (10-10-2012 07:13 PM)Prophylaxis Wrote:  

Quote: (10-10-2012 06:06 PM)CMan0928 Wrote:  

Why are you eating other peoples food without asking?

I can get quite obnoxious at times and it's a relatively small practice - so I assumed it was OK. Apparently not. No shit I won't eat their crumbs anymore. Regardless, is that relevant to me asking for a pay rise?

If it was your boss' food, then yes, it was probably relevant. It sounds like you may be lacking in social decorum which would also be relevant. I wouldn't be asking for a raise only after 6 months unless the job was not what we agreed upon when hired.

Quote: (10-10-2012 05:49 PM)Prophylaxis Wrote:  

Shit, life would be easier if I was a yes-man.

Shit, working for someone else is beta anyway(at least in my opinion), so why not go the extra little bit and become obsequious? You might get what you want a lot faster.

Quote: (10-10-2012 07:13 PM)Prophylaxis Wrote:  

Quote: (10-10-2012 06:06 PM)CMan0928 Wrote:  

Why are you eating other peoples food without asking?

I can get quite obnoxious at times and it's a relatively small practice - so I assumed it was OK. Apparently not. No shit I won't eat their crumbs anymore. Regardless, is that relevant to me asking for a pay rise?

I don't believe it's relevant to you being declined a raise, no. But I do think that it gave the bosses one more round of ammunition to use against you while shooting your request down. I actually find it quite odd that management would even bring such silliness up. But I can see it being a real issue among your coworkers. I have a similar situation going on at work now as a matter of fact. I purchased my own hand cream and anti-bacterial soap for on the job use (I work in a medical setting, also) and it appears that two or three of my fellow employees just use whatever they want whenever they wish. The cream is nearly gone and the soap is completely gone, but one of those douchebags was nice enough to add water to the soap bottle to get the last remaining bit of product out. I guess what I'm trying to say is that taking things without asking creates animosity. And that animosity apparently found it's way back to your bosses, and as a result, it came back to bite you in the ass a bit. I personally don't care if someone uses my shit, just ask me first. I suggest you do the same in the future. But really I don't consider what you did a huge issue. Just a respect sort of thing I guess. Do what you can at work to quell your issues with coworkers over the next 6 months and keep your nose clean otherwise, too. Then request another meeting. If they shoot you down again, then it's time to find a new place of employment.

What's changed in six months that you think you deserve a raise? You agreed to the pay rate then - why should they change it now?

You're paid on an hourly rate. So you work a longer day with more clients, you automatically earn more, right?

If your work day is the same hours as before but more clients, nothing should change. A billable hour is a billable hour. You can't justify charging more for the same unit of time just because there's less downtime between clients.

From what you wrote, you've got no basis to expect a raise. Except the standard cost of living raise, and it's too soon for that. Dial back the sense of entitlement.

In the follow up meeting, I suggest telling them you were on the rag last week and that their comments on your performance were right. There is room for improvement and you will try and do better. Treat this as a learning experience. Do an honest day's work and be grateful to them for the opportunity.

The ideal employee is low maintenance. So be low maintenance and do the job you're paid to do.

Don't let management do that to you. They're dicks like that. Everywhere, they're dicks like that.

Try to dig up how much you benefit them, in actual numbers. Get a percentage or a number, and ask for your raise as a "hey I'm benefitting you, a little payback would be nice". If they won't agree, slack off until you find something else.

Quote: (10-10-2012 05:49 PM)Prophylaxis Wrote:  

telling me 'you're not the same person we hired at the start'.

Most managers are dicks trying to deny you your due, but still this comment drew my attention. Either this person is a massive dick, or your performance has been lacking.

Quote: (10-10-2012 05:49 PM)Prophylaxis Wrote:  

telling me 'you're not the same person we hired at the start'.

The great part about that quote is that it's, from what we've been told, more or less based on the fact this dude is eating his coworkers food without asking them. Talk about going overboard. If that's the best the boss can do I'd call him on it.

Quote: (10-10-2012 11:01 PM)RawGod Wrote:  

Quote: (10-10-2012 05:49 PM)Prophylaxis Wrote:  

telling me 'you're not the same person we hired at the start'.

Most managers are dicks trying to deny you your due, but still this comment drew my attention. Either this person is a massive dick, or your performance has been lacking.

The guy admitted to being obnoxious and somehow you blame the owners for being dicks when they point it out.

Quote: (10-10-2012 11:47 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  

The guy admitted to being obnoxious and somehow you blame the owners for being dicks when they point it out.

That's a good point, also.

I'm the likeable obnoxious guy, so naturally I thought it was in good humour. The team would usually joke with me about how much I eat. Strangely, the only time they got stuck into me was when I asked for the pay rise.

Anyways, that's not the main issue.

Has anyone had experience with being refused a pay-rise? What actions did you take? How did you reframe it to work to your advantage or keep your dignity intact?

Also Tigre, there's no way I'd apologise for my actions or ambitions. Who wants to be the low-maintenance ball licker 99% of the working population?

Quote: (10-11-2012 12:58 AM)Prophylaxis Wrote:  

I'm the likeable obnoxious guy, so naturally I thought it was in good humour. The team would usually joke with me about how much I eat. Strangely, the only time they got stuck into me was when I asked for the pay rise.

Anyways, that's not the main issue.

Has anyone had experience with being refused a pay-rise? What actions did you take? How did you reframe it to work to your advantage or keep your dignity intact?

Also Tigre, there's no way I'd apologise for my actions or ambitions. Who wants to be the low-maintenance ball licker 99% of the working population?

Make yourself an important part of their business. Only then you will have leverage. At this point, you are not important enough.

I went through something similar and got a major pay day because of it when I first started out after college.

What food did you eat? Was it someones prepared lunch or was it a dessert like a brownie?

Also, did the eating of the food cause a discussion or is this the first time you're hearing that they knew you ate the food?

Quote: (10-11-2012 01:46 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

What food did you eat? Was it someones prepared lunch or was it a dessert like a brownie?

Also, did the eating of the food cause a discussion or is this the first time you're hearing that they knew you ate the food?

I cut off a slice of the boss' bread (I assumed it was common food). Also it WAS mentioned previously that people need to 'chip in' and replace food. I'm totally in the wrong, just didn't like the timing of the guilt trip.

Probably an important point is that the boss taking over is a domineering, manipulative female who has the current boss by the balls. I think because I actually have a backbone, she does not like.

Suppose stroking their ego and leeching all the knowledge I can is the best route. (Until I start my own business).

So, how long until you can "bury your sins" in the past, and make the request again for another measly 2 dollars raise?

Are you willing to wait another two years without screwing up just so you can ask "Can I have my 2 dollars now?"

Just quit.

Quote: (10-11-2012 08:23 AM)germanico Wrote:  

So, how long until you can "bury your sins" in the past, and make the request again for another measly 2 dollars raise?

Are you willing to wait another two years without screwing up just so you can ask "Can I have my 2 dollars now?"

Just quit.

Shit, he should have asked for a raise the same day he started. Why wait 6 months?

My generation is fucked.

You eat other people's food because you believe you are "better than them" why not befriend all these people that are "lower than you".

Then you go into the office with zero bargaining chips and ask for a raise. You believe you are entitled.

If you don't see the very obvious faults. You are 100% in the wrong, I will place you on ignore.

Quote: (10-11-2012 08:23 AM)germanico Wrote:  

So, how long until you can "bury your sins" in the past, and make the request again for another measly 2 dollars raise?

Are you willing to wait another two years without screwing up just so you can ask "Can I have my 2 dollars now?"

Just quit.

From the hourly rate, multiply it by 1600 and you have an idea of what it would work out to per year. So 2 bucks an hour is an extra $3,200 per year. Or $250 per month.

Imagine you move into a rental house, and I am the landlord. Six months after you move in, I tell you: "Oh, I'm going to increase your rent by $250 per month now". Do you say "sure, that sounds fair"? Or do you ask me "why would you change the rent that much when we just agreed a fair price six months ago?"

It's easy to be generous with someone else's money. Would you be as generous if it was 3 grand out of your pocket?

Let's say, for argument's sake, the practice agrees to the raise and takes a $3k per year hit on their profit margin. What you haven't considered is that even after the raise, boy wonder still won't be satisfied. He won't be grateful. He'll just keep agitating for more, same as before.

If the OP is dissatisfied now, the obvious question is - why did he campaign for and accept the job in the first place?

Quote: (10-11-2012 03:48 AM)Prophylaxis Wrote:  

I cut off a slice of the boss' bread (I assumed it was common food).

What kind of bread was it? Kidding.

If this is your first job out of college doesnt expect much. My first job out of college I was working from 6:30am to 5pm m-f and some weekends and was making about 40k in a big city market. Now lets just say I can afford to travel every weekend if I wanted.

How much are you getting paid? Asking for $2 pay rise in half a year's time is a huge increase and on top of that you ate the bosses bread and on top of that you mentioned you act obnoxious at times. Just because they think it's funny does not mean it plays well on your character.

If I were the boss, I would be very annoyed as well. The calling you out of the bread thing is a bit uncalled for but understandable since it's not only the bread thing but also the act of you asking for a raise this early on in your tenure there that set him off. You got 2 strike against you now. I don't think kissing ass is the best way to go about it, it just makes you look like a weasel.

You need to work your ass off and show the company you're a real asset.

Quote: (10-11-2012 09:55 AM)Tigre Wrote:  

It's easy to be generous with someone else's money. Would you be as generous if it was 3 grand out of your pocket?

I got it wrong. I tought he had 2 years in the job, instead of 2 years out of school.

So, yeah.