I'm fine with people keeping pit bulls provided they muzzle them and are strong enough to keep the dog on a leash. It's the same as any other dangerous pet, if the owner doesn't take sufficient precautions to keep it from getting out and attacking people then the owner should be criminally liable for whatever the dog does.

If you don't want to go to prison because your dog ate a kid, then get a Labrador or one of those Huskies that can bark "I love you".

Quote: (05-14-2019 09:26 PM)ChefAllDay Wrote:  

C'mon, this is another attack on American values. The American Staffordshire Terrier WAS Americas dog, it was a family pet and protector until the 70's when gangbangers and low lifes turned it into the villain it is today. Like chrome pistols and Trans-Am's, the dog isn't the problem. It's the fucking idiots they attract. I am more afraid of the Taco Bell mutt than AmStaff's.

Okay, so would you propose stricter punishments for the owners of dogs that maul/disfigure/kill people? I bet if the next time a "nanny dog" tears a kid's face off if you were to put its owner in jail for a long while, then everyone else would think twice about how they raise those fuckers.

Quote: (05-14-2019 09:26 PM)ChefAllDay Wrote:  

FFS, wake up and deal with the real problem. Let's soft genocide idiots. How does that sound? This might be the stupidest thread on RVF.

Let's not say things we can't take back.

Can we at least let the Pitbulls genocide the small bitch dogs before we genocide them?

I'd like to genocide people that live in Hawaii that have those Siberian huskies. That's a real dick that does that.

That's like making an Eskimo live in the desert. It's just mean.

Aloha!

Speaking of that I see TONS of owners who can't handle those hyper ass huskies, they can be dicks also. Same with dalmations too.

The title of the thread is kind of click bait, but I get the drift. I think it would be better to introduce that owners be held to stringent requirements that normal dog owners wouldn't.

For example, something like they aren't allowed to be around children or the eldery unless they have some type of special restraints on their mouths. Or maybe require that they wear a special collar that can knock them out in the event of an attack (don't know if this even exists) .

Pit Bulls are special because of their potential for great service and value to their owner. The stereotypical viciousness of a poorly-trained alpha dog (think: owner lets the dog pull him around where he pleases, and lets the dog periodically maul other human beings) is the other side of the same coin from a well-trained, highly submissive, compliant, sensitive, worthwhile animal and companion.

This breed, out of perhaps all others, is the most adherent to the logic of a dominance hierarchy. This social structure is valued because it efficiently organizes the group's conduct along a set of rational rules (e.g., the most competent fighter will lead in a fight).

But without an understanding of dog psychology, a dog owner will fail to give his dog the leadership it needs in order to feel secure and comfortable, trusting of the abilities of its human alpha leader to lead the group in confronting external threats. Its natural response is to see that the alpha role is un-occupied, and automatically step up in order to do what is needed. The result is unnecessarily vicious alpha dogs whose owners lack control. These dogs genuinely believe that they own the humans, and that it is their responsibility to guide and defend them. That is ass-backwards, and it's incompetent dog ownership.

Owners, especially owners of large breeds, need to invest time in establishing a dominance relationship with their dogs, or else abstain from owning (or being owned by) dogs.

Quote: (05-15-2019 12:25 AM)felix_vagabondo Wrote:  

But without an understanding of dog psychology, a dog owner will fail to give his dog the leadership it needs in order to feel secure and comfortable, trusting of the abilities of its human alpha leader to lead the group in confronting external threats. Its natural response is to see that the alpha role is un-occupied, and automatically step up in order to do what is needed. The result is unnecessarily vicious alpha dogs whose owners lack control. These dogs genuinely believe that they own the humans, and that it is their responsibility to guide and defend them. That is ass-backwards, and it's incompetent dog ownership.

This is like, what, 7 or 8 out of 10 of dog owners from my observations. When a dog feels that lack of leadership, it expresses itself in different ways. In my apartment building alone, every dog with the exception of one that I've met so far, will either growl and snarl at strangers, pull its owner along on its leash, and most of them bark incessantly from the confines of a small apartment where it spends most of its day. Most of these dogs live a miserable emotionally-unstable existence due to this lack of leadership. And for bigger and/or more aggressive breeds, it can lead to violence. Most people have no idea what it takes to properly lead, train, and feed their dog for it's optimal existence.

I'm not often for more government intervention, but I think not only bigger breeds should perhaps be gated behind some kind of license or certification, but all pet ownership. Maybe this a bit extreme but I don't agree that we as a civilized society should subject ourselves to the noise pollution, sanitary concerns, safety risks, and negative environmental factors that stem from the massive amount of food it takes to feed these animals. I believe that as a pet owner, and specifically with dogs, the owner should have to go out of pocket extensively to own that animal. For the well being of the animal, and for communities and society as a whole.

I'd be down to genocide much of the dog population, not just pit bulls. But don't worry I'm well aware of the reality of the situation. It's a billion dollar industry, supplying these emotional tampons and fluffy practice children, ugh, I mean...pets, to people to fill the void that has been left by our sick society. It's like Tyler Durden selling the soap made from the cellulite of fat upper class women right back to them. It's like the phosphate mining industry selling fluorosilicic acid, a waste product, to the various State municipalities, for a profit, instead of disposing of it properly and having to pay penalties to the EPA to do so. It's just good business. And I'm just an idealist I suppose.

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I'm in favor of genociding the idiotic scumbags that have given this dog its reputation before the dogs themselves.

Yes, they're dangerous dogs. Real dogs are.

Quote: (05-15-2019 01:06 AM)Monkey Business Wrote:  

Quote: (05-15-2019 12:25 AM)felix_vagabondo Wrote:  

But without an understanding of dog psychology, a dog owner will fail to give his dog the leadership it needs in order to feel secure and comfortable, trusting of the abilities of its human alpha leader to lead the group in confronting external threats. Its natural response is to see that the alpha role is un-occupied, and automatically step up in order to do what is needed. The result is unnecessarily vicious alpha dogs whose owners lack control. These dogs genuinely believe that they own the humans, and that it is their responsibility to guide and defend them. That is ass-backwards, and it's incompetent dog ownership.

This is like, what, 7 or 8 out of 10 of dog owners from my observations. When a dog feels that lack of leadership, it expresses itself in different ways. In my apartment building alone, every dog with the exception of one that I've met so far, will either growl and snarl at strangers, pull its owner along on its leash, and most of them bark incessantly from the confines of a small apartment where it spends most of its day. Most of these dogs live a miserable emotionally-unstable existence due to this lack of leadership. And for bigger and/or more aggressive breeds, it can lead to violence. Most people have no idea what it takes to properly lead, train, and feed their dog for it's optimal existence.

I'm not often for more government intervention, but I think not only bigger breeds should perhaps be gated behind some kind of license or certification, but all pet ownership. Maybe this a bit extreme but I don't agree that we as a civilized society should subject ourselves to the noise pollution, sanitary concerns, safety risks, and negative environmental factors that stem from the massive amount of food it takes to feed these animals. I believe that as a pet owner, and specifically with dogs, the owner should have to go out of pocket extensively to own that animal. For the well being of the animal, and for communities and society as a whole.

I'd be down to genocide much of the dog population, not just pit bulls. But don't worry I'm well aware of the reality of the situation. It's a billion dollar industry, supplying these emotional tampons and fluffy practice children, ugh, I mean...pets, to people to fill the void that has been left by our sick society. It's like Tyler Durden selling the soap made from the cellulite of fat upper class women right back to them. It's like the phosphate mining industry selling fluorosilicic acid, a waste product, to the various State municipalities, for a profit, instead of disposing of it properly and having to pay penalties to the EPA to do so. It's just good business. And I'm just an idealist I suppose.

Negative environmental factors? Are you blaming dogs for global warming?

Also, living in an apartment sucks ass. The solution is to make enough money to buy a house, not impose thousands of dollars in taxes and regulation to own a fucking dog. Most complexes are full of low class people. The exception obviously being metropolitan areas where apartments are preferable to houses.

I don't post in threads about having kids because I don't have any. I also don't post in welding threads because I've never welded. If you haven't owned and trained dogs, you are only seeing part of the picture.

^^^ Don't post about murder if you've never murdered anyone. Don't post abour Mars unless you've been there. People are smart enogh to question and analyze their perceptions based on data and observation.

Quote: (05-15-2019 02:30 AM)Uzisuicide Wrote:  

^^^ Don't post about murder if you've never murdered anyone. Don't post abour Mars unless you've been there. People are smart enogh to question and analyze their perceptions based on data and observation.

Sweet argument. Discussing mars and killing people is exactly like discussing the nuances of raising and training domestic dogs. A lot of topics have a learning curve which unfortunately cannot be learned in front of a screen.

I've never been to Laos but I read about it on Wikipedia once. I'm going to write a badass Laos datasheet because I'm smart enough to analyze the people and climate based on data and observation.

This line of thinking is exactly why so many valuable forum guys have started distancing themselves and the autists have polluted most threads.

Dogs are tools and each breed was bred for a specific purpose. All the dog lovers seem to forget this simple fact.

Border collies were bred to herd sheep. They weren't bred to sit in your 500 sq ft apartment all day. It's torture for them.

Beagles were bred for tracking rabbits, which is why they chase lizards or squirrels around your yard. They weren't bred to sit in your 500 sq ft apartment all day, but they will still do it since they aren't very hyper. They're also super loud since they're a hound.

If you want a companion dog, then get a chihuahua. They were literally bred as a companion dog and are completely useless for everything else.

Pit bulls were bred to fight bulls and bears. That switched to dog fighting once bull and bear baiting became illegal in the 1830's. At no point were they bred to sit in your 500 sq ft apartment all day or play with your family.

Either legalize dog fighting, allow legitimate kennels to enter the space, and let the breed fulfill their purpose OR ban pit bulls. They have no use in modern America and are too big of a liability due to their background. There are better guard dog breeds if you need a guard dog.

Legalized dog fighting will never happen, so banning pit bulls is the only solution.

Quote: (05-14-2019 09:26 PM)ChefAllDay Wrote:  

C'mon, this is another attack on American values. The American Staffordshire Terrier WAS Americas dog, it was a family pet and protector until the 70's when gangbangers and low lifes turned it into the villain it is today. Like chrome pistols and Trans-Am's, the dog isn't the problem. It's the fucking idiots they attract. I am more afraid of the Taco Bell mutt than AmStaff's.

A purebred AmStaff is usually ok. They're more risky than a Border Collie or Lab, and way too risky for most families, but all the guard dog breeds are dangerous. The pit bull breeds had a purpose - fighting bulls and bears - not to be a family pet.

Also, saying the AmStaff was a family pet in the 1930s and that's why you should recuse a pit will literally get someone killed. A rescue pit is a fighting dog and should never be considered a pet.

I guess we can file this in the big ol' pile listed under "what rules can we make to compensate for people getting dumber and dumber every year."

I have a good system that will cover this and every other dumb person contingency.

If you're found personally liable for damages caused by your stupidity and you don't have assets to cover it then you spend a year in jail for every (median yearly wage) you fall short.

When your pit bull scars some kid physically and psychologically for life because you're a trash human with no money trying to look like a tough guy you can spend the next 10 to 20 in jail.

Same when you roll over some kid at a crossing because you bought booze with the money you were meant to spend fixing your brakes.

If the sentence exceeds your likely lifespan then they take you around the back of the court and put a bullet in your brain.

This system can even be used on corporations. Company cooks their books and then folds leaving investors bankrupt? Arrest all the CEOs and department heads and strip their assets. Any shortfall? Off to the clink.

It doesn't help that pitbulls are usually owned by scumbags. If you're a scumbag, what dog breed do you get? There you go.

Great post VNnet. People forget that dogs were bred for a purpose.

People in apartments should stick to a Shih Tzu or Basset Hound. And some big dogs are surprisingly low maintenance and don't need much activity.

I got an Australian Cattle Dog mix in college that also has some terrier, lab, and shepard in her. She's incredibly high maintenance and needs to be exercised and mentally stimulated. She's probably the smartest and fastest dog I've ever seen.

I have a 1.5 year old Chocolate Lab as well. We got him from a farm for pretty cheap because they didn't have purebred papers. He's English stock with the big head instead of the leaner looking hunting labs. But he is a big, goofy idiot. Yesterday a plastic grocery bag blew by him and he jumped and hid behind me. He's also afraid of my brother's Shih Tzu. I haven't gotten him cut because he's never humped anything and doesn't show aggression. No reason to castrate him just to save money on dog sitters.

My cattle dog is 7 now and her energy has yet to slow down. But she has a territorial streak in her. She won't bite but she scares the fuck out of people who she doesn't think are welcome. It's mostly men; if women come over she's fine. But if someone sends the wrong vibe she gets on edge. Even if my wife and I are fucking around and pushing/wrestling, she steps in between us. She's the dog I trust if anyone ever tries to break into my place. While more of a herding dog, she shows a lot of guard dog tendencies. My fucking lab will help the robbers carry out the TV.

I love how people say they have a 'family dog'. A dog is only 100% loyal to one person. We got the lab puppy so my wife could feel like she had a dog since I've had the cattle dog longer than I've known her. He went behind my cattle dog in the pecking order and both pretty much only respond to me. They aren't badly behaved by any means but if she tries to pull rank on them, it doesn't really work. If they are barking and I tell them to stop in a stern voice, it stops. She has to yell multiple times to get them to stop or stand up and pull rank by grabbing their collars.

Don't get me wrong, most dogs are 'family dogs', but there has to be a clear leader for the dog to behave properly.

hey guys, sorry, I forgot to put up a picture of my pit bull:



Aloha!

Quote: (05-15-2019 04:24 AM)wi30 Wrote:  

He went behind my cattle dog in the pecking order and both pretty much only respond to me. They aren't badly behaved by any means but if she tries to pull rank on them, it doesn't really work. If they are barking and I tell them to stop in a stern voice, it stops. She has to yell multiple times to get them to stop or stand up and pull rank by grabbing their collars.

Don't get me wrong, most dogs are 'family dogs', but there has to be a clear leader for the dog to behave properly.

I see this a lot. It's actually pretty funny.

Dogs don't give a shit about being PC and listening to women boss them around. They're loyal to the most authoritarian leader - almost always a man. They can probably sense the testosterone level too and will look to that high-T male for leadership.

It's always a good sign about your character when a dog respects/fears you.

A fighting pit bull is a different story.

The mainstream opinion is that the owners cause the violence... by being violent?

That's not true. Some pitbulls are never violent and don't fight. Dogfighters kill those dogs. Dogfighters specifically pick the most violent and savage dogs. Those dogs require the most violence and savageness to keep in line, which is why the dogs aren't an issue for their owner.

It's mostly nature, not nurture, with dogs.

Meanwhile, if we're talking about domestic animals that need to be put down for the good of society...

While I lack strong opinions about pit pulls one way or the other, I do strongly think the word "genocided" (along with its cousin "suicided") should be eradicated, exterminated, or ethnically(linguistically?) cleansed from our lexicon.

Put bulls and Newport cigarettes are two things white folks should have never culturally appropriated from the ghetto. It’s one thing to give them to Hawaiians. Fortunately I live in an extremely wealthy neighborhood where labs and Golden’s are the preferred animal. But now that you’ve got white folks involved, they’ve gone from being $100-$200 garbage ghetto dogs, to dumbasses dropping over a grand for “purebreds.”

I’ve got a dog that’s half jack Russell. I know what assholes terriers can be. He’s manageable at 15lbs. At 40lbs, he’d be a nightmare.

By far the biggest problems are the owners. From hood rats to women who keep them as their surrogate felons. Because of this, shelters are bursting at the seams with these unwanted animals. I get no less than 10 notifications/day on Facebook about another pit bull needing adoption somewhere.

Do I think genociding the breed is the answer? Probably not. People are just dumb fucks and if you eliminate them, they’ll replace them with something worse.

The problem with pits is the owners. If they can't handle and control themselves and their lives it leaks to their kids and their dogs. Of course they happen to like a more aggressive and territorial dog breed. They need a strong leader.

There's an old saying too.

"A tired dog is a good dog"

Most people don't mentally and physically stimulate their dog enough. That should vary based on the breed. Pits need a lot of physical.

I was covered in pit bulls yesterday, three to be exact, it was hilarious. I think Pitbull owners should require a driver's license of sorts, have them have to acquire a license to own such a dog

No