Or is this just an RVF urban legend?

On this forum and the general "manosphere", being a bartender seems to be an aspirational job with the promise of status and endless pussy.

Some otherwise respectable posters even suggest getting a job washing the dishes or cleaning the tables in a bar, just to have a chance of being promoted to the coveted bartender position.

To me, who has never lived in North America, this seems bizarre. Where I have lived (Europe and Asia), a bartender has seemed to be maybe a slight step up from a store assistant in a mall or a Starbucks barista.

Is this totally different in the USA or is this some "secret society" type thing that I have been totally oblivious to whilst it stares me in the face?

Yes, they have a chance to interact with hot girls but as their servant, not as an authority like people here suggest. In my experience, a cool customer in a bar is much more impressive than a cool bartender as you imagine they must have a cool life and you mentally fill in the blanks whereas with the bartender, you know that is their whole life and it's not cool. Or is it cool in America?

Furthermore, I've tried the advice of tipping bartenders well so that they give you preferential, friendly treatment but it never seemed to have the intended effect, as being friends or treated well by the bartenders simply wasn't that impressive. It seemed somewhat akin to driving your garbage to the scrapyard with your girl in the passenger seat and the staff there knowing your name and being happy to see you. I am exaggerating but you get the point.

Discuss.

As with most answers in the EE your answer probably involves (((them))) somehow.

But only one bartender can actually claim "sex symbol" status:



Modern day bartenders are fags and soyboys in comparison.

The bartender is a common example of the Situational alpha.
The bartender is seen as in control, especially of a substance that is as mind altering as alcohol. he has other men looking up to him, as the other men get drinks from him, he also can have men thrown out by the nearby bouncer if they act a fool etc. . . and in many clubs barenders can make 6 figures or more (a bit of one of those best kept secret things) of course it's hard to work your way up to those jobs and those top clubs arent gonna be in business or even the top club for a bartender's whole career but still.

Then take into account the hoops some guys have to jump through just to GET into the club or even some popular bars.

Alpha.

I can go on and on about the bartender thing specifically but that really isnt the point of this post.

You are missing the bigger picture, it isnt about "being a bartender" it's about being the alpha of the situation and location etc etc.

Let me give you some examples of situational alpha that can attract women:
Bartender
Bouncer
Professor
Teacher
Pub Crawl host
regular speaker at a location for whatever reason
musician
DJ
TV Star
Movie Star
Play actor(usually most male play actors are gay. . . if you're not. . .well, there you go)
Waiter (yes, waiter. . .but you need to be in shape though)
Other type of service staff that regularly interacts with people (ask Kona more about this. . .aloha!)


Expand your thinking OP, think of other situations in which you can be the situational alpha, experiment, take the pros and cons of that position (how much work do you need to get there, is it more or less work than approaching daily? etc etc)

hope you get something out of this.

Simple answer: You have to have the looks.

I worked security and was in decent shape and got decent women from it. My friend was an ex-male stripper and had MUCH MUCH better luck as a security guard.

OP been reading too many Hank Moody's posts? Being a bartender isn't enough, you need also to be 6'2"+, have massive visible tattoos and a really big dog. Then you'll be trippin' all over pussies wherever you go.

Quote: (01-06-2019 08:49 PM)StrikeBack Wrote:  

OP been reading too many Hank Moody's posts? Being a bartender isn't enough, you need also to be 6'2"+, have massive visible tattoos and a really big dog. Then you'll be trippin' all over pussies wherever you go.

dog? or DONG?

You also need a lifted truck and Sonos speakers at home. Don’t forget to have tour own dedicated FB secret group of haters.

Bartending by no means does not entail an automatic constant supply of pussy. There are plenty of bartenders I know who do not get laid at all from it. And most that do, are not laying a different girl every night or even every weekend. Most will just occasionally get lucky a few times a year. You still need looks, fashion, and game just like always.

That said, bartending simply puts you in a position of interacting with many girls while they are in a social and fun state of mind, not to mention they are going to be drinking. It gives a man with game a plethora of opportunities, whereas the vast majority of jobs or careers do not offer this .... and even in jobs where one can interact with women, it is often a delicate issue that might be generally frowned upon. No one bats an eye at a flirty bartender by contrast.

Another thing I would add ... One major road block to getting pussy while bartending that often goes unmentioned is the fact that if you are bartending, you actually do need to stand behind the bar and do actual work until the bar closes. If you are working a busy (in other words, lucrative and desirable) shift, you will not really have any time to game women as you will be constantly busy servicing customers, and will have to solely fall back on crossing your fingers that a girl just throws herself at you. And even when that happens, chances are you are not going to go home with her, because she's horny and drunk at 2am, but you need to stay there until 5am counting money with all the lights turned on. By that time, the moment has most likely passed...if you work in a town where bars close at 4, few girls will be willing to wait up the entire night. Sure, you might get a phone number, but the conversion rate of that is the same as it always is for anybody else.

Generally speaking, most bartenders are likely getting the most pussy from female bartenders and waitresses-- those are simply the kind of girls that also have off mondays and tuesdays, and who can drink until close without a hitch. Which is not such a bad thing -- female service workers are typically young, hot, and loose as hell and there's essentially an endless supply of them in the high turnover service industry. They are never to be considered gf material however.

As to your point about "getting in" with bartenders. Just speaking for myself, although I am kind of a prick, I do not generally give a fuck about male customers trying to be my friend. It's usually just a hassle to have to listen to some guy gab at you and try to be cool. If they have alterior motives, like wanting free drinks, its usually painfully obvious and something myself and most other bartenders find extremely irritating and disrespectful. If you want a bartender to be your friend, introduce him to a girl or give him free stuff.

Lastly, as to your general beffudlement with the exalted status and pay of US bartenders, I just have to say that, as a bartender myself, I will agree that it is pretty weird. I'm not sure how it started or why exactly it persists, but I think what it comes down to is that it's just a very easy job that you are way overpaid to do -- thanks to the bizarre tipping culture of the US -- and the fact that its such easy money leads to a situation where you do have to talk your way into a secret society in order to be able to do it (side note -- to the poster saying bartenders make 100k+, that is maybe 1-2% of bartenders, most make around 50-60, a good 25% probably about 70) Someone basically just has to vouch for you that you're cool and that's that.

It gives all the girls who want to talk to you the opportunity to do so. If getting laid is a numbers game to some extent, then being a bartender ensures you will talk to all your 'yes' girls on any given night. If in a club of 200 people you have 20 yes girls, chances are you find the right combination of words with one of them, even if you aren't a Casanova. You also get this night after night, which gives you a lot of practise. I got laid a lot as a bartender.

Good answers so far.

Yes and no. I've seen both ends of the spectrum from guys I've worked with, from balding dorks with zero confidence or game, to renowned mixologists at the top of their game.

The thing is, even the balding dorks with zero game still get the occasional freebie thrown their way, from either a customer or a coworker. But keep in mind, this is Vegas. On top of being in the dominant frame, you've got chicks that come here to fuck and it's crazy how often they make themselves available to a server or bartender instead of a rando at a club. I'd say it's a borderline fetish for women to come to Vegas and want to fuck a waiter or bartender.

So I'd say it really depends on the circumstances and which city we're talking about. But generally I would say, yes. Bartenders get it a lot easier than many other professions. I'd way rather be a bartender at a high end hotel bar in Vegas than say, a surgeon.

Quote: (01-06-2019 09:09 PM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:  

You also need a lifted truck and Sonos speakers at home. Don’t forget to have tour own dedicated FB secret group of haters.

The Ryen Russillo method.

Who, as luck would have it, is a pretty red-pilled FORMER espn employee who actually brings a nuanced opinion to the world of sports talk. I recommend anyone into US sports, especially football and basketball, check him out.

Of course not. But to understand the stereotype, watch the film "Cocktail" with Tom Cruise in his prime. To save you the trouble, Tom Cruise becomes a beast of a bartender and beds all the women he wants because of his situational status as master mixologist.

That's the standpoint many are referring to, when they talk about the stereotype. Of course not all bartenders are like that. There are plenty of guys working in Chili's and dives and taking no-one home.

Just like any other thing, distribution, segment of society, the elite level guys are killing it. The thing special about bar-tending is that he interacts with shittons of customers and women in a "fun" state. I'd be willing to bet the elite level guys in bartending are yielding most of the returns, but nonetheless, being a bartender puts you in the same place as a high-status chef, DJ, rock musician etc, within your small domain that you operate in. It's all about the niche that you have.

I would say their level of success (the ones that pull) is because of their social calibration (they have to be on point with their job or they don't take money home; meaning, they have to be good with all sorts of people), and also their access to people in a receptive state. Also helps they are calling the shots, and they almost have a ritualistic role in leading the party. In some way, they are modern-day inebriation shamens presiding over the hedonistic court.

edit: it is a fraternity and not much consideration is merit-based, it's just about getting people they like into positions as long as they're cool. You enter the fraternity and then you see how many of the people are getting bangs from other promiscuous service workers.

The thing about the USA is that people in America are spoiled for the most part because we have had it good for so long, American women in particular. For decades, the United States had unprecedented wealth and most of what you see as "American" are upper middle class white kids that typically grow up in suburbia, go off to college, rush a frat/sorority, YOLO it out in university and are perfectly fine afterwards with a decent enough job.

For Americans, women raised in the culture in particular, it is about excitement as opposed to wealth and stability. A decent looking American woman can easily get her free meal ticket husband with a stable white collar job who will give into all of her whims in a heartbeat. She can get him when she is 30+ and done with all of the guys she would treat as a one night stand.

Bartender signifies nightlife which signifies party culture and American women are head over heels crazy for getting wasted as fuck and singing pop music loudly drunk because YOLO. It signifies a continuation of their loose sex life that aspects of life like college presented, the cool nightlife with DJ and perhaps a popular musician visiting the venue. It is fun, it is excitement and it is where most attractive loose women will gather at. In that vicinity, a bartender has status.

So its a combination of being in a situation where you are around a ton of loose women that have a need for you, giving you some status in that situation.

Here is the most underrated aspect of what nightlife jobs and bartending offer. There is a saying out there that as iron sharpens iron, one man sharpens another. In terms of game, it is tough to rival guys who have been in nightlife and what they can teach you about slaying, very few professions out there can compete.

It is why in high school, the athletes and popular guys naturally get laid more, they around more natural alphas they can learn from. Replace popular guys with frat boys in college and that is the situation you have. You are around a lot of guys who won't judge you harshly for getting around and will actually help you, directly or indirectly, grow in regards to game and getting laid.

Compare nightlife to the white collar soul crushing corporate world where the average guy you meet is a beta cuck that is likely a soyboy liberal.

Compare being around captain soyboy cuck for 8 hours a day and seeing him act all high and mighty because he got married at 25 to a wife that is probably cheating on him to the kinds of people you run into in nightlife who are still getting around.

Compare nightlife to being in situations where one statement taken out of context sends you right to HR and your head is on the chopping block.

My point being you are naturally around a lot of other guys who have high notch counts, have been with a lot of different women and will bring out the best in you when it comes to game. You have the chance to associate with naturals who have a high notch count and learn a thing or two from them, stuff that most other jobs do not offer.

At your typical workplaces/corporate, you are very likely to run into soyboys, cucks, libtards and bitter losers with no knowledge of game and a crabs in a bucket mentality to where if your player lifestyle is found out, it can lead to you being targeted at some workplaces and even losing your job. When working at a nightclub, you're not going to encounter that, you are expected to fuck randoms and get around, morals are more relaxed.

The kind of fraternity and social life you get from being in nightlife is unrivaled by most other places where you will run into guys trying to push you to be a cuck and marry that fat hag, unfortunately, you are the average of the 5 people you spend most of your time with.

Quote: (01-06-2019 10:20 PM)Jeans Wrote:  

As to your point about "getting in" with bartenders. Just speaking for myself, although I am kind of a prick, I do not generally give a fuck about male customers trying to be my friend.


Lastly, as to your general beffudlement with the exalted status and pay of US bartenders, I just have to say that, as a bartender myself, I will agree that it is pretty weird. I'm not sure how it started or why exactly it persists, but I think what it comes down to is that it's just a very easy job that you are way overpaid to do -- thanks to the bizarre tipping culture of the US -- and the fact that its such easy money leads to a situation where you do have to talk your way into a secret society in order to be able to do it (side note -- to the poster saying bartenders make 100k+, that is maybe 1-2% of bartenders, most make around 50-60, a good 25% probably about 70) Someone basically just has to vouch for you that you're cool and that's that.

The only way a dude is gonna get in with the bartenders if if they tip, tip often and regularly. . .although in a club there's no real reason to, you usually save the tipping for bars that you frequent that you plan to bring girls to(although if the bartender is a beta faggot hipster his jealousy may get the better of him and fuck you over anyway. . .) but generally, tipping the bartender is what you need to do, always.


The guy was making 6 figures, he showed me his bank account as I didnt believe him at all when he mentioned it to me. Then again, I was working at a top tier night club in a big U.S. City. and a lot of dudes there would spend like $6-7,000+ a night on bottle service and VIP seating in view and access to all the hot girls. . .


There were a LOT of guys who were this loose with their money.

Funny thing is, I never knew this much money exchanged hands like this until I saw the guy post his VIP bottle service receipts on his facebook page.

I should have I wasn't really on the forums back then, but If I was. . .I probably should have introduced him to the forum. . .would have saved him and his friends a lot of money.

But anyway, the main point I was making is that you dont need to be a bartender to do it,

you can also be a:

Youtuber
e-sports guy (has to be one of the top ones)
twitch streamer
Blogger (Roosh even has a blog post about acquiring a harem from blog groupies alone which I found funny.)

Hell, you can make your own niche and as long as you get popular enough to get constant attention you can get laid. Even C list musicians can get that effect.

P.S. I was a bartender in my early 20's for a while as well, and I got tail. . .girls would wait for me if I told them too. This wasn't in the U.S. though so that's a bit different then

Guys get too complicated about it. It all comes down to two things:

Access and Exposure.

Someone central to a crowd, whether it's a bartender, a PERFORMING musician or a bouncer has more EXPOSURE than anyone else. And in most cases, it's *forced* exposure since people (women) are forced to interact with them.

High volume exposure does two things, from two different angles:

1.Externally, it forces women to interact which gives you a higher probability to game (or to like you based on other factors if you're unaware of game), also familiarity.

2.Internally, the high exposure allows you to adapt a lot quicker socially and gives your (unconscious) mind a very large data set to work from based on all the interactions.

The Game is a numbers game, at least at the beginning, but even advanced players need access and exposure to stay in the game.

Cialdini in his book Influence has a chapter on this called Authority. Basically, its situational status. Status improves your SMV, and situationally it can be easily obtained or faked. I say situationally because that status is not durable. A bartender at a bar has status, at a wedding less so, and at the grocery store almost none. But its fairly easy to become a bartender.

Status/authority can be a very powerful tool in game. You could use it to bump your SMV a point or two.

At a crowded bar, women see other women demanding/fighting for the attention of the bartender.

That’s social proof right there. (It doesn’t matter that the other women fighting for the attention of the bartender just want alcohol).

Then at the end of the night, the now very drunk women make moves on the man with social proof who has been easy for them to flirt with all night long.

Bartender is a great situational alpha profession, at the right bar or club.

Quote: (01-06-2019 08:40 PM)CJ_W Wrote:  

The bartender is a common example of the Situational alpha.
The bartender is seen as in control, especially of a substance that is as mind altering as alcohol. he has other men looking up to him, as the other men get drinks from him, he also can have men thrown out by the nearby bouncer if they act a fool etc. . . and in many clubs barenders can make 6 figures or more (a bit of one of those best kept secret things) of course it's hard to work your way up to those jobs and those top clubs arent gonna be in business or even the top club for a bartender's whole career but still.

Then take into account the hoops some guys have to jump through just to GET into the club or even some popular bars.

Alpha.

I can go on and on about the bartender thing specifically but that really isnt the point of this post.

You are missing the bigger picture, it isnt about "being a bartender" it's about being the alpha of the situation and location etc etc.

Let me give you some examples of situational alpha that can attract women:
Bartender
Bouncer
Professor
Teacher
Pub Crawl host
regular speaker at a location for whatever reason
musician
DJ
TV Star
Movie Star
Play actor(usually most male play actors are gay. . . if you're not. . .well, there you go)
Waiter (yes, waiter. . .but you need to be in shape though)
Other type of service staff that regularly interacts with people (ask Kona more about this. . .aloha!)


Expand your thinking OP, think of other situations in which you can be the situational alpha, experiment, take the pros and cons of that position (how much work do you need to get there, is it more or less work than approaching daily? etc etc)

hope you get something out of this.

I'm a bouncer and get nothing

Quote: (01-07-2019 07:52 AM)Stargazer Wrote:  

I'm a bouncer and get nothing

Then throw those bitches out!!!!

Even being a balding dork isn't a reason to give up. A balding guy in good shape and with good fashion who has shaved his head can very easily give off a vibe that certain women find attractive

Quote: (01-07-2019 11:55 AM)Easy_C Wrote:  

Even being a balding dork isn't a reason to give up. A balding guy in good shape and with good fashion who has shaved his head can very easily give off a vibe that certain women find attractive

Yeah I realized after writing that it was a bad way to portray an archetype. In reality, I was describing one particular guy I work with, who is balding prematurely and is a huge dork and a white knight as well.

Once I got fired from a hotel bar job when I got caught trying to fuck a girl who was celebrating her birthday in a vacant storage space. Her friend ratted me out to one of the managers "my friend disappeared upstairs with one of the bartenders". My manager was this half-a-fag tryhard guy and he told me "get the fuck out, you're done" with glee.

One of the archetypes that 'bartender' evokes is a gregarious, uninhibited guy who loves to party and is down to have a good time and fuck. Alternately, it could be a cynical burnout alcoholic that's drinking and smoking his way to an early grave. You could argue that the former is essentially a sex symbol because he is a guy that's available for sex and fun, and most importantly is someone devoid of unsexy characteristics like predictability, responsibleness, or preoccupation with something inconvenient like consequences.

Bartenders who fit the carefree archetype are the ones that get laid a lot, and often they are attractive guys who would do well regardless of their job. If your personality isn't congruent with this image, the position itself isn't going to be much help getting you laid. The majority of bartenders that I've seen don't get laid all that much more than your average guy. Like Veloce has alluded to in the past, the industry is rife with a lot of effeminate lefty progressive types. I've known bus boys who get more ass than comparably attractive bartenders.

Within a restaurant or bar, the bartenders have status because 1. the job looks like you are getting paid to party sometimes, 2. you control the flow of booze, 3. usually you make the most money. The best looking girls I tagged as a result of bartending were coworkers. Most of them hostesses. The hostess stand is like a revolving door and most of them are at least cute.

I've mostly worked in high end restaurants. In this setting, I never felt like the position ever gave me much of a status boost with clientele. Most attractive women (I saw a lot of stunners) were being wined and dined by wealthy men. Beyond that, these positions require you to conduct yourself in a more reserved and dignified manner. In other types of drinking establishments you are going to get more women letting loose, and you are more able to play the role of fun party guy in terms of your conduct, freedom to drink, being able to wear what you want, etc.

As I get closer to 30 I feel myself moving further away from being the loose cannon bartender guy, for better or worse...

In Europe it does I've done it..There are 1000s of Brit lads doing it getting laid like no tomorrow.

Australia its the bouncer and DJ.Euro chicks go for the barman.

I met bouncers in the US snd barmen telling me they were getting alot of play but I'm not sure.

Being a Aussie or Brit barman in the US would help.

Being Aussie barman outside of London does help.

Also its the bar or club rep that helps the most..it must be a popular bar..