We need to DHV and attract girls so we try to avoid being boring and just talking like a regualr guy ''hi, what's your name? age? job?'' etc etc

But when I try mysterymethod stuff I get the WORST reactions. I'm in the UK. The girls just cringe and roll their eyes at almost everything he says (and it's not because they've heard it before. 'the game' was never a thing here). But it all bombs for me. The opinion openers. The negs. The 'you look like you do something creative? Are you in fashion??!'' etc etc. None of it has the desired effect.

I also try what is referred too as 'natural game' where i'm just being a normal person, although I guess I when I get rejected with this stuff I feel like I was never actually 'running game' because I was just being 'normal' (hey, how's your night going? What's your name? What are you up too tonight? etc etc)

I feel like I need a 'middle ground' maybe. Kind of like a stack of things to say/fall back on, that ideally is funny and can DHV without being all try-hard like palm reading and weird stuff like that.

I'm looking for ideas from any of you who do lots of night game (even better if you're from teh UK due to cultural differences)

Ideas on conversation to help me HOOK which i've been generally unable to do for 2 years now since first approaching.

I HOOK maybe 2% of the time (girls seem engaged and asking me questions etc), and I think them girls (the 2%) are simply the girls who think i'm OK looking and so give me a chance.

If only 2 out of 100 women you talk to want to converse with you, then your problem isn't your PUA method. It's your physical appearance.

This can be fixed but it'll take a few years and a lot of dedication.

It's like this, if a fat girl with a septum ring in her nose comes up to you says "you look like a model" or "hello there" or " Nice strong arms" or "You're sexy but I've had better." It doesn't really matter to you what she says because in your brain, she's still a fat girl with a septum ring, who's talking to you, and you have better options out there.

It's the same with women and when they realize they have better otpions; the first thing that'll come out of their mouth, " Oh, we're going to go to the bathroom, be right back." That's your cue that you've failed.

Your body, teeth, skin, smile, eyes, confidence -- Those are all more important than words.

I've seen dudes try and drop great openers and lines, and try be funny and quirky but it all comes across as creepy and try hard without the right delivery, expression, timing and style.

It could be your openers are shockingly bad, and not socially calibrated.

You need to hit the front lines with a successful wingman for an honest assessment of your style and openers.

$100

Linux dropping some hard truths.

OP, did you ever try legitimate natural game? Not a subset of pickup artistry but being genuinely natural? None of this, "okay, I'm gonna play it cool and casual" because if it comes off as an act or play, the "natural" vibe is completely lost.

Just be confident, discuss something happening around you to initiate the conversation, it's doesn't really matter what is so long as it's not too negative (eg, don't bitch and moan about a line or slow bartender). This approach has worked well for me.

Also, don't put girls on the spot to showcase their "perceived" creativity. They're not, they know they're not, and when put to the task, they'll turn, fold, and become cold.

Final suggestion, you bring up Mystery. If you dress any way that resembles peacocking, nothing will help.

Because building a "stack" is bullshit designed to sell books to nerds.

You're getting mostly good advice here. I'd add though that body language and attitude ("vibe") are even more important than looks. Hanging out with bikers you see a LOT of greasy, butt-ugly dudes with top tier tail that worships them. Worships as in will let these dudes fuck em in the ass and be grateful for the privilege of getting fucked.

Here's one huge thing people are missingcreen girls by seeing which ones make eye contact. The ones that hold it for a moment are at a minimum intrigued enough that they'll give you a shot.

Nightgame stack is 20mg of Adderall -> 180 mL Jagermeister -> snort one line of crushed up boner pills

I feel like in today's age game and attraction has almost so deconstructed that unless you fit into a neat little box then you're fucked. Case in point a girl might have a "type." Let's say it's a douchy blonde with strong jaw, imposing height, and wide shoulders. A million dudes can approach her gold on a platter but unless it's her type then she won't react except with the most curt "ew."

I have more or less given up on clowning and doing cold approaches at night. During the day time I will engage women and make it clear I'm attracted to them in an indirect or soft direct manner. Usually with a "hi I noticed x, what do you think?" or something situational or if I feel it has a shot I will do a "hi I like your style" or "excuse me, I think you look really nice, how are you?" If they like me then they respond in kind otherwise I politely fuck off. More efficient. The sanity, time, and energy I save is great.

As someone mentioned in another thread, usually women who are +1/2 above your SMV will blow you off 99% of the time unless there is an angle such as gold digger, scene kid, power dynamic, status etc. Equal SMV women will be your fence sitters, they are often the most troublesome because they feel like they have to bargain with you, like they are trying to haggle a few dollars on socks at the china town market. Since I'm a 5 on avg and 6 at best, this is usually depressing and not an ideal situation. Girls who are lower than your SMV will willingly play along but it's detrimental to your self esteem if you do this often.

So I have learned to go indirect or direct during the day time so that I expend no more energy, time, or money than necessary. Since I'm average at best in looks, I do my best to stay in shape and keep my fashion game strong. Then I go to communities and groups where I can get a situational +1/2. But this is nothing new. This is why immigrants hang out in their own communities. Why people gravitate towards like themselves, you simply maximize your odds with least effort.

If you're a 5 trying to regularly bang 7s or even 8+, good luck but it's going to be frustrating and even when you land a 7 or above it's going to be a whole lot of work for something that probably wasn't worth it in the end.

Acquire money, fame, and niche status and you can move up the ladder. Smart people exploit existing systems instead of fighting against it.

Openers, Mystery, Neil Strauss. None of it worked out like it should have. It made for good reading, though.

I still think the opener I came up with in high school works best: Ask to borrow a nickel for the vending machine.

The line is disarming (they're expecting a pick-up but instead they get hit up); women like being helpful; and the sheer silliness of this often creates conversation -- esp. if you offer to share the Skittles later on.

You have to stage this correctly, though.

What I used to do was saunter up to a strange girl and act like I was too shy to talk to her but had a crush. Then I'd say, "Um...I need to ask you something." She'd brace herself for some nerdy pick-up line. Then I would hit her with "Do you have a nickel I can borrow so I can get some Tastycakes?" The girl would usually end up laughing because of how unexpected the turn in conversation was.

Quote: (08-01-2018 10:00 PM)BlastbeatCasanova Wrote:  

Nightgame stack is 20mg of Adderall -> 180 mL Jagermeister -> snort one line of crushed up boner pills

not sure who this guy is or if he's legit, but I'm just gonna say, that it a weird combo I'm gonna have try.

My go to opener is “Hi, I have an eight ball of blow in my pocket, let’s go to a bathroom stall” works 80% of the time in night clubs. Throw in a couple of disco biscuits and you’ll get the bang 90%+ times

People also tend to forget that where you stand on the rating scale is pretty subjective aside from Symmetry, height, and fitness.
I guarantee you that any guy of average or better height without deformities will, after you get this guy a six pack and a sharply put together casual suit, have at least ONE hot girl who digs the way he looks in any given evening.

It may not be the one you want and it doesn't mean anything until you seal the deal but the two main skills of hustling arr creating circumstances where opportunities present themselves and then spotting those opportunities. Mystery style game teaches neither skill.

This almost sounds like relying upon handwritten lines on a folded piece of paper.

Anything from the surroundings or what I think of at the top of my head will do.

Wait more Game Denial here. Never woulda guessed.

Get Good y’all.

Anyway here’s mine, though these days it’s more off the cuff than scripted.

Hover
Open - how’s your night going or did you get your drink yet or anything really
Curiosity gambit - “yeah I’m not from here but my friend said this is the spot to come, you come here often?”

She’ll ask where I’m from. Always.

Make her guess. Hook is in at that point.

Then I’ll feel her out a bit to see where she’s at. Get her logistics (she here with friends, she drive, she staying here or bouncing later, etc.)

At that point I might cop the digits or keep pushing depending.

If it’s push then run some verbal stuff. Throw in a non judgement frame and make her feel a few things and then a bit of sex talk

Basically the goal is to get her stimulated, make sure she knows I won’t judge her or stress her for sleeping with me, and that the whole experience will be an easy and fun co created good time.

Then it’s just a matter of getting her out the spot.

Suit up & boot up. Hit the pavement . Have the spectacular vernacular that makes the kitty vibrate. Church! Cathedral! Tabernacle...

Quote: (08-01-2018 11:30 AM)LINUX Wrote:  

If only 2 out of 100 women you talk to want to converse with you, then your problem isn't your PUA method. It's your physical appearance.

This can be fixed but it'll take a few years and a lot of dedication.

It's like this, if a fat girl with a septum ring in her nose comes up to you says "you look like a model" or "hello there" or " Nice strong arms" or "You're sexy but I've had better." It doesn't really matter to you what she says because in your brain, she's still a fat girl with a septum ring, who's talking to you, and you have better options out there.

It's the same with women and when they realize they have better otpions; the first thing that'll come out of their mouth, " Oh, we're going to go to the bathroom, be right back." That's your cue that you've failed.

Your body, teeth, skin, smile, eyes, confidence -- Those are all more important than words.

To piggyback on what Linux said - warm approaches are your best friend. If you are at a night club then there should be dancing and people are drinking. Get out on the floor and see who's smiling and making eye-contact with you. These are girls that may be warm to your advances. Being a good dancer helps. Being the best version of yourself helps the most (both in mind and body).

I'm a firm believer that your looks are as much a part of game as what comes out of your mouth and the confidence in your head. Knowing how to dress and style yourself to be the best presentation of yourself, taking care of your body so you are in decent shape, clean, healthy, and well put together. All these things are part of your game.

Remember, all the things that are NON-VERBAL are the first thing a girl is going to notice about you. Looking your best and having a cool confident demeanor is going to be impressed upon them before you even open your mouth - come from the best starting point you can so you have to do less "convincing" and more just having fun with a girl and sweetening the pot with your words.

thanks for the replies.

Yeah, lots of talk about looks and well, I'm certainly not handsome at all.

I do the best with what i have and dress nice and go to the gym and get regular haircuts but facially I am very much on the ugly side, plus i'm pretty short, so i've always known it's a bit of an uphill battle!

But obviously this is a game forum so I don't want to get too hung up on plastic surgery and stuff and so was more interested in how to best spike emotions in the early part of a sarge with any tips that people have found useful for them.

Anyway, cheers

60% nonverbal
30% how you say it
10% what you say.

This is one completely true formula that Mystery and his ilk nailed completely. If girls are checking you out before you've even wandered over to that part of the bar, you've won more than half the battle.

Let's be honest: most girls don't give a shit what you actually say. It could be music, sports, travel, fashion, fine dining, whatever funny/sad thing happened today. It's outweighed 9-1 by the other 2 factors.

Even if Jesus/Allah/Moses/Vishnu came down and gave you the ultimate perfect pick up line....you'd still have to follow up. This is why keyboard jockeys & copycats fail in real life. They're not congruous and can't keep it going.

Peacocking works but you have to be calibrated because it's all relative. Suit in a polo/chinos bar is peacocking and works. Tie, cufflinks and pocket square in a dressier environment.

Or a fur coat walking into a high-end NYC nightclub in the dead of winter, the amount of attention my buddy and I got was really shockingly high [my coat was fake but doesn't matter obvs]. Girls kept running over to us asking to try them on.

subterfuge, from following your posts for a while, whatever's holding you back is something that won't be identified or remedied over forum posts.

Your fundamental social calibration is off.

Some of it can be stated, e.g. the routines and lines aren't bad per se, but your delivery is needy and off somehow.

But communicating how you should be doing it, is something that has to be shown.

Maybe your body language is off in a way that would be really obvious to another gamesman or yourself on video, but you don't notice it in your own skin hence can't write it on the forum.

There's too many limitations to in-the-moment introspection and text as a medium.

Stop flying out at night with chodes.

Find successful guys to roll with that you can emulate or pick their brains. Even if it means getting their leftovers and being vibe tapped while you observe and they mentor.

Meet forum guys and ask for their input.

Assuming you can't get enough volume from nightgame to inculcate the fundamentals: Pick a daygame model, follow it, and audio record 1000 approaches over six months to fine tune it on both a macro and micro level.

You need deep, intense, and prolonged exposure to basic social calibration or social skills to rewire your brain.

RatInTheWoods is on point.

Quote: (08-01-2018 09:35 PM)Easy_C Wrote:  

Because building a "stack" is bullshit designed to sell books to nerds.

You're getting mostly good advice here. I'd add though that body language and attitude ("vibe") are even more important than looks. Hanging out with bikers you see a LOT of greasy, butt-ugly dudes with top tier tail that worships them. Worships as in will let these dudes fuck em in the ass and be grateful for the privilege of getting fucked.i

Here's one huge thing people are missingcreen girls by seeing which ones make eye contact. The ones that hold it for a moment are at a minimum intrigued enough that they'll give you a shot.

I knew a guy once who used to slay chicks and his two main weapons were being in great shape and eye contact. He would literally scan the bar looking for eye contact, if he got a lingering look back or a double look he would walk right over. No hesitation and just say hi.

Well, that's standard game, 3 second rule always applies. Girls are expert at calibration compared to men, anything more than a cursory glance at you means she has some interest.

What you say is irrelevant, interactions are determined as quick as if they're a real life Tinder.

1000% agree on capitalizing on IOI's from across the room.
Looking back, my highest successful pull rates have been from girls who gave me a look (and where I was sober enough to catch it and take action on it immediately )
The correlation of a girl eye fucking you to her being DTF is like 95%+
All you have to do in those situations is not fuck it up.

But picking up on non-verbal cues is probably worth a completely separate thread here in and of itself.

Quote: (08-01-2018 03:59 AM)subterfuge Wrote:  

Ideas on conversation to help me HOOK which i've been generally unable to do for 2 years now since first approaching.

This is what I'm curious about. You're saying you have a problem getting her hooked; do you do well afterwards? If yes could it be that..

• you have approach anxiety
• you're outcome dependent
• you're not really out to get laid but rather to get your ego validated
  

If not, you probably don't have enough SMV to carry what you say.. You can memorize an entire bookshelf full of PUA books but if you look like Vitalik Buterin and your face gets blushed when you start talking to her and you start stuttering mid sentence.. It won't work.

It will be the same thing as if you wear a top notch designer suit but its 6 sizes too big. That's easy to see through.

Quote: (08-02-2018 12:52 AM)scotian Wrote:  

My go to opener is “Hi, I have an eight ball of blow in my pocket, let’s go to a bathroom stall” works 80% of the time in night clubs. Throw in a couple of disco biscuits and you’ll get the bang 90%+ times

Edit: How do you pull this off in the shitty North American nightclub toilet setup with multiple occupancy, gender segregated bathrooms with short stall doors that start 3 ft above the ground? I have to do alleyway at the very least.

If a girl says she has a boyfriend, I always say, "so who's in control, you or him?" It's money because the girls grin and admit they're tooling the guy around, and usually her girlfriends will laugh along because it's a thought-provoking question. From there it's easy to start clowning on them and it really does spark the thought in their head. It's also disturbing when you see how quickly girls admit their boyfriends are pussys on some level to a stranger.

The "I have a boyfriend" response is usually a fuck-off and they expect it to end there but that line is an easy transition that everyone starts laughing at the girl and you can move on to gaming her friends (and eventually back to her) and you completely bypassed that obstacle effortlessly.