First, I would just like to say that I have searched thoroughly this forum for similar threads. I feel that these threads didn't gave all the answers I wanted; most seem focused on professional photographers here and what equipment they currently use and how they are doing it, not beginner applicable advice. So I decided to start a new one. If moderators feel that this thread is unworthy of being standalone, feel free to move it one of the existing threads.

I have been planning for some time to get into photography. It's a huge DHV, there are opportunities around me to make a side money from it (and probably even Game) but basically I would like to just do it. The fact that I recently finished college and will have access to better paid jobs around me makes that plan much easier to achieve. That being said, I am first looking at affordability and beginner friendliness.

What I understand?
I understand the technical terms used and how the prices vary, but haven't really got much of an guide what camera to get first. Seems like the compact cameras are a no no, because I want full control while shooting photos, so DSLRs and mirrorless present themselves as choices.

What I want?
- affordable price
- beginner friendly
- as much control as possible while shooting photos
- age of camera doesn't matter (I will buy used older specific model if better than new model)
- good selection of lens (for future investments)
- that it comes with default lens; I am beginner and just one default lens (18-55?) will be enough for now instead of buying just one pricey body and getting equally expensive lens additionally

Some ideas
First, I will definitely buy it from ebay. I have been using it for some time and have very pleasant experiences, mostly because of fast (and free) shipping for such a big distances and because prices are much cheaper than in Croatia. Hardware is biggest example and cameras are not different in that regard. I think I saw price differences of at least hundred dollars for some cheaper ones and thousand dollars for some expensive pro models.
Regarding recommendations, some people suggested to me to buy Nikon D3200. I heard also about Canon 1300d. Apart from that I couldn't get much more advice here. Today I saw a pretty old camera on blog of one guy I follow. It is a Olympus E-PL1, camera which I see on ebay seems pretty affordable and he says that it makes excellent photos when coupled with Minolta lenses. But I am getting ahead of myself now.

Price range
I am willing to spend up to 600$ for both camera and its default lens. Over that is too much currently.

All things considered, am I asking for too much or not? Thank you guys in advance.

I've recently started on this journey myself. I've picked up a used Canon T1i, a 50mm lens, Goldmund's "Camera Game" book, and signed up for this free course -> https://philliphaumesserphotography.com/

As you can see, I'm about $200 in. You might want to spend more if you're trying to make a side hustle out of it.

Quote: (03-04-2018 11:40 AM)not_dead_yet Wrote:  

I've recently started on this journey myself. I've picked up a used Canon T1i, a 50mm lens, Goldmund's "Camera Game" book, and signed up for this free course -> https://philliphaumesserphotography.com/
As you can see, I'm about $200 in. You might want to spend more if you're trying to make a side hustle out of it.

I wouldn't drop a lot of cash on anything but equipment.

You have to learn the angles and perspective. Essentially seeing the world how the camera sees it and not how you see it. That just takes experience and practice.

Photoshop is the most important and you can learn anything you want to do from YouTube. I did some Cosplay photography and did fireballs and lightening that look great... learned it on YouTube.

What do you want to shoot? That's the #1 factor in deciding everything else.

Portraits, sports, landscape, nature, nightlife - those could all be done with the same setup (say, the standard begginer DSLR Canon T3i 18-55mm), but for better results the gear and lighting would be quite different.

RE: angles and perspectives
They're important, of course. But lighting is as important, if not more.

Quote: (07-16-2016 06:49 AM)Ringo Wrote:  

Sebastião Salgado has a great quote on his documentary "The Salt of the Earth": "Photographing is drawing with light".

^ Same model under different light setups.

Depending on what you want to shoot, you don't need a camera. Tons of good photographers shoot unbelievable pictures with their iPhones. (A camera is more fun though!)

RE: software
Disagree about Photoshop. The most important program to master is Lightroom, especially if shooting raw files and when you have large photo collections. Photoshop is what you use when Lightroom can't fix or do what you want done.

I want to shoot portraits, landscape, nature and interesting things around me. Is that Canon 600d (that is what is called in Europe) good beginner choice?

Take a look at some of these:

Sony A6000
Lumix GX80 and G80
Olympus EM10 Mark II or III
Nikon D700 (used)
Canon 5D Mark II (used)

(The D700 and 5D II are Nikon and Canon pro cameras from a decade ago, so can be picked up quite cheaply now yet still produce stunning images.)

I got a panasonic dmz tz70 which is a superzoom compact with evf and flip up lcd for selfies. Should be great for traveling. Not that good for indoor pictures without long shutter speeds, but for outdoors and only 400 bucks. Wasn't sure if I want to get dslr or mirrorless yet. My last dslr was 6 lbs with the two lens and case. THat was a pain to drag up Masada in ISrael.

I hear that the mirrorless cameras you have to be careful when you switch lens due to sensor dust, moreso than dslr due the glass.

The a6000, a6300 and cannon sl2 are interesting

There are some local photography courses. Might be a venue you want to check out.

Get an entry level camera, use the kit lens AND a cheap fast prime (That is, lens with a fixed focal length and large aperture. IE: 50mm f1.8).

I personally like the Nikon D5600 for a start. It comes with a very competent Kit lens (18-55) and you have access to two lenses that are very good and very cheap for a start: the 35 and the 50, both 1.8.

Sony is pretty good as well. Their cameras are mostly mirrorless and the electornic view finder helps a lot. That's my second suggestion and don't forget to pick it's own 50mm 1.8.

Fuji is very very good, but I don't recommend them for people starting up. Their quality and lenses are top quality but they will also drain your wallet quicker. I'd love to shoot Fuji instead of Nikon but I'm not rich.

I don't know much about Canon, but they compete directly with Nikon so they've got their own thing as well.

For learning I'd say forget about classes and spend that money on a lens. Find some good stuff in youtube and pick up a challenge. There are some challenges online that are cool to try out. for example:

https://petapixel.com/2015/12/30/do-this...s-in-2016/

But most importantly, take pictures of whatever inspires you and have some patience. Enjoy!

The camera I use is a Canon EOS1300D - although I believe it's called the Rebel T6 in other parts of the world. I highly recommend it. It's not heavy and it takes fantastic quality pictures. I picked mine up (with a stock lense) for $500 Australian dollars. If you want, I could upload some photos I've taken with this camera, just so you can get an idea of its quality.

I recently upgraded my lense to a YN50mm F1.8 - which cost me $100. This is a good lense for me because I want to take portraits. I suggest just starting of with the basic stock kit lense, and then upgrading once you know what kind of photos YOU want to take.

Finally, I also recommend the book 'Read This If You Want To Take Good Photos'. If you've never done digital photography before.

Oh, and good one you for wanting to take up photography mate. It's an incredibly enjoyable and rewarding past-time.

Quote: (03-04-2018 05:33 PM)Psygnosis89 Wrote:  

Take a look at some of these:

Sony A6000
Lumix GX80 and G80
Olympus EM10 Mark II or III
Nikon D700 (used)
Canon 5D Mark II (used)

(The D700 and 5D II are Nikon and Canon pro cameras from a decade ago, so can be picked up quite cheaply now yet still produce stunning images.)

Thank you for your recommendation. My comments:
Sony A6000
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sony-ILCE-6000-...SwVlVZ-vlb

Is this the one? Price is let's say ok, even though I said up to 600$. Also it says that it is from France, meaning I will not pay taxes!

Lumix GX80 and G80
G80 definitely too expensive. 800$ for an used one! No GX80 with free shipping but this one combined with shipping is 437$:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Panasonic-LUMIX...SwH1dam~Wr

Olympus EM10 Mark II or III
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEAR-MINT-OLYMP...SwFLBaXZdw

Bit above my price range. I dig the retro look!

Nikon D700 (used)
Body affordable but there are no kit lens.

Canon 5D Mark II (used)
Same thing as D700.

Quote: (03-04-2018 05:39 PM)kbell Wrote:  

I got a panasonic dmz tz70 which is a superzoom compact with evf and flip up lcd for selfies. Should be great for traveling. Not that good for indoor pictures without long shutter speeds, but for outdoors and only 400 bucks. Wasn't sure if I want to get dslr or mirrorless yet. My last dslr was 6 lbs with the two lens and case. THat was a pain to drag up Masada in ISrael.

I hear that the mirrorless cameras you have to be careful when you switch lens due to sensor dust, moreso than dslr due the glass.

The a6000, a6300 and cannon sl2 are interesting

There are some local photography courses. Might be a venue you want to check out.

Yeah, that a6000 seems affordable and good for its price. a6300 and sl2 (200d) definitely too expensive.

There are some courses during summer. I don't know if there are each year or not, but there are opportunities to learn aside from books/youtube.

Quote: (03-04-2018 06:47 PM)Volk Wrote:  

Get an entry level camera, use the kit lens AND a cheap fast prime (That is, lens with a fixed focal length and large aperture. IE: 50mm f1.8).

I personally like the Nikon D5600 for a start. It comes with a very competent Kit lens (18-55) and you have access to two lenses that are very good and very cheap for a start: the 35 and the 50, both 1.8.

Sony is pretty good as well. Their cameras are mostly mirrorless and the electornic view finder helps a lot. That's my second suggestion and don't forget to pick it's own 50mm 1.8.

Fuji is very very good, but I don't recommend them for people starting up. Their quality and lenses are top quality but they will also drain your wallet quicker. I'd love to shoot Fuji instead of Nikon but I'm not rich.

I don't know much about Canon, but they compete directly with Nikon so they've got their own thing as well.

For learning I'd say forget about classes and spend that money on a lens. Find some good stuff in youtube and pick up a challenge. There are some challenges online that are cool to try out. for example:

https://petapixel.com/2015/12/30/do-this...s-in-2016/

But most importantly, take pictures of whatever inspires you and have some patience. Enjoy!

Nikon d5600 is too expensive for me. The cheapest ones are 800$. What do you recommend from Sony?

Quote: (03-05-2018 05:03 AM)Bizet Wrote:  

The camera I use is a Canon EOS1300D - although I believe it's called the Rebel T6 in other parts of the world. I highly recommend it. It's not heavy and it takes fantastic quality pictures. I picked mine up (with a stock lense) for $500 Australian dollars. If you want, I could upload some photos I've taken with this camera, just so you can get an idea of its quality.

I recently upgraded my lense to a YN50mm F1.8 - which cost me $100. This is a good lense for me because I want to take portraits. I suggest just starting of with the basic stock kit lense, and then upgrading once you know what kind of photos YOU want to take.

Finally, I also recommend the book 'Read This If You Want To Take Good Photos'. If you've never done digital photography before.

Oh, and good one you for wanting to take up photography mate. It's an incredibly enjoyable and rewarding past-time.

Canon 1300d falls within my budget. Look at this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Canon-EOS-1300D...SwXlJalSIV

This one comes with stock lens. I'll check out this book. Cheers!

If you're getting it from Ebay, make sure that the seller is located in the EU (UK included, sorry guys ), otherwise the parasitic Croatian government will slap you with 25% VAT plus possibly a 20% import tariff too.

p.s. if ordering from UK, pay attention to the battery charger adapter - it might not be compatible.

Learn selective focus/zoom. It's important.

Quote: (03-05-2018 07:26 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  

If you're getting it from Ebay, make sure that the seller is located in the EU (UK included, sorry guys ), otherwise the parasitic Croatian government will slap you with 25% VAT plus possibly a 20% import tariff too.

p.s. if ordering from UK, pay attention to the battery charger adapter - it might not be compatible.

Also, good thing is that customs on cameras is zero, otherwise we would need to include that also in the price.
Do they really still put UK as a member of EU on ebay?

Guys, all thing considered what is the result of mirrorless vs DSLR rivalry? Which one is more suited for beginners? While I saw a lot of DSLR beginner cameras, just these last few days I noticed that there are mirrorless cameras almost in the same price range as beginner DSLRs. For example, Canon EOS M3 or Sony A6000.

Quote: (03-05-2018 05:12 AM)sterling_archer Wrote:  

Quote: (03-04-2018 06:47 PM)Volk Wrote:  

Get an entry level camera, use the kit lens AND a cheap fast prime (That is, lens with a fixed focal length and large aperture. IE: 50mm f1.8).

I personally like the Nikon D5600 for a start. It comes with a very competent Kit lens (18-55) and you have access to two lenses that are very good and very cheap for a start: the 35 and the 50, both 1.8.

Sony is pretty good as well. Their cameras are mostly mirrorless and the electornic view finder helps a lot. That's my second suggestion and don't forget to pick it's own 50mm 1.8.

Fuji is very very good, but I don't recommend them for people starting up. Their quality and lenses are top quality but they will also drain your wallet quicker. I'd love to shoot Fuji instead of Nikon but I'm not rich.

I don't know much about Canon, but they compete directly with Nikon so they've got their own thing as well.

For learning I'd say forget about classes and spend that money on a lens. Find some good stuff in youtube and pick up a challenge. There are some challenges online that are cool to try out. for example:

https://petapixel.com/2015/12/30/do-this...s-in-2016/

But most importantly, take pictures of whatever inspires you and have some patience. Enjoy!

Nikon d5600 is too expensive for me. The cheapest ones are 800$. What do you recommend from Sony?

From Sony I recommend the A5xxx series. For Nikon, if you want to go cheaper and still have a beast of a camera, earlier versions like the D5500 or even the D3400/D3300 have a monster of a sensor.

The reason for the Sony is that for starting out I think mirrorless is quite good, because whatever you see on the LCD or in the electronic viewfinder is exactly what you get from the picture, while an optical viewfinder is what you see through the lens but not what the sensor is actually capable of reading.

Which would you recommend, A5000 or A5100? Regarding lens, what selection are we looking here?

Quote: (03-05-2018 04:25 PM)sterling_archer Wrote:  

Which would you recommend, A5000 or A5100? Regarding lens, what selection are we looking here?

Go by price, but obviously I'd go for the newer model if the cost difference is negligible.

For lenses, start with the 18-55 for E-Mount. From there it's up to what you prefer to shoot. If it's portraits pick a 50mm f1.8, if it is landscapes pick something shorter than 18mm but keep in mind those wide lenses are not usually cheap.

There's an extra advantage: you can get adapters and put all kinds of cheaper vintage objectives in front of that camera. All of them would be manual focus but the camera gives you focusing assists.

Oh, by the way, buy batteries, at least 2 or so. Mirrorless have two main disadvantages: They eat through batteries and have a bad habit of getting the sensor dirty.

Quote: (03-05-2018 05:03 AM)sterling_archer Wrote:  

Quote: (03-04-2018 05:33 PM)Psygnosis89 Wrote:  

Take a look at some of these:

Sony A6000
Lumix GX80 and G80
Olympus EM10 Mark II or III
Nikon D700 (used)
Canon 5D Mark II (used)

(The D700 and 5D II are Nikon and Canon pro cameras from a decade ago, so can be picked up quite cheaply now yet still produce stunning images.)

Thank you for your recommendation. My comments:
Sony A6000
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sony-ILCE-6000-...SwVlVZ-vlb

Is this the one? Price is let's say ok, even though I said up to 600$. Also it says that it is from France, meaning I will not pay taxes!

Lumix GX80 and G80
G80 definitely too expensive. 800$ for an used one! No GX80 with free shipping but this one combined with shipping is 437$:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Panasonic-LUMIX...SwH1dam~Wr

Olympus EM10 Mark II or III
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEAR-MINT-OLYMP...SwFLBaXZdw

Bit above my price range. I dig the retro look!

Nikon D700 (used)
Body affordable but there are no kit lens.

Canon 5D Mark II (used)
Same thing as D700.

Yes, that's the A6000. It's probably the best buy of those I recommended.

With the D700 or 5D2 my advice would be to get a cheap 35mm or 50mm lens and learn that focal length inside out. The problem with a zoom kit lens is you (obviously) get a bunch of focal lengths to distract you and it can be easier to learn composition by forcing yourself to be the zoom. Then you buy a wider or telephoto/portrait lens when you know why you need it.

Mirrorless all the way

No point in SLR if you are starting out...only reason to go that route is if you’re already invested in a canon or Nikon system and need a full frame and focusing speed of their high end bodies

Quote: (03-05-2018 09:09 PM)Brahman Wrote:  

Mirrorless all the way

No point in SLR if you are starting out...only reason to go that route is if you’re already invested in a canon or Nikon system and need a full frame and focusing speed of their high end bodies

Pictured: high end body

Quote: (03-05-2018 09:09 PM)Brahman Wrote:  

Mirrorless all the way

No point in SLR if you are starting out...only reason to go that route is if you’re already invested in a canon or Nikon system and need a full frame and focusing speed of their high end bodies

Do you agree with Volk regarding Sony mirrorless cameras?

Quote: (03-05-2018 05:30 PM)Volk Wrote:  

Quote: (03-05-2018 04:25 PM)sterling_archer Wrote:  

Which would you recommend, A5000 or A5100? Regarding lens, what selection are we looking here?

Go by price, but obviously I'd go for the newer model if the cost difference is negligible.

For lenses, start with the 18-55 for E-Mount. From there it's up to what you prefer to shoot. If it's portraits pick a 50mm f1.8, if it is landscapes pick something shorter than 18mm but keep in mind those wide lenses are not usually cheap.

There's an extra advantage: you can get adapters and put all kinds of cheaper vintage objectives in front of that camera. All of them would be manual focus but the camera gives you focusing assists.

Oh, by the way, buy batteries, at least 2 or so. Mirrorless have two main disadvantages: They eat through batteries and have a bad habit of getting the sensor dirty.

A5000 is more affordable, either buying from ebay or from here in Cro, although as I said in the first post, our prices are at least hundred dollars higher.
What do you think of Canon M3?