Here is yet another reminder not to use boxing/punches (in this guy's case slap boxing) on someone with a knife.






If you have no other choice but to use punches against a knife holder, if you cannot knock them out in a 2-3 punch combination, run. If you know Muay Thai or Kickboxing, use a Teep/pushkick (preferably at their knee).

If you have the time, take your belt off and swing it to buy yourself some time. Aim for their cheek or temple. If you are slick, swat it against the knuckles of their hand holding the knife and they will likely drop it. Follow up with a face smash.

In fact as a man, there truly is not a good reason, outside of workout clothes, to not be wearing a belt outside. This is yet another reason to wear one.

If you are not addressing the knife first, the knife will undress you.

Like that Doug video Budoslavic posted, "knives are meant to be felt, not seen."

That said, the guy in the video knew this guy had a knife and attacked him anyway because he knew the person the knife holder was chasing around. He still did not know he had been fatally stabbed until the blood gushes got way too bad. I had to dig into Chinese social media to find the news article, John in the video does not know the guy saw the knife because the quality is too poor.

Quote: (12-17-2017 04:21 PM)Teep Wrote:  

Anyone else interested in bare-knuckle boxing techniques?

It's occurred to me that a boxer (or nak muay in my case) is in many ways ill-prepared for a street fight because of gloves and wrist wraps -- the former producing poor knuckle alignment and the latter weak wrists.

A lot of boxing techniques would GUARANTEE a broken hand in a street fight, leaving a pure boxer defenseless. The open glove jab/flick comes to mind.

What I do is not to wrap my wrist when I train. Also I do makiwara training to harde it up. Not sure how good it is but I'm a fan of the hardcore Karate way that say, when you are harder then the enemies that want to break you, its better. But I did push ups on my knuckles and hit on walls since long time, now got a makiwara. I know two friends that broke their wrist. One started boxing after many years of powerlifting. Hit the heavy bag with to much power and bad technique. Second is my "student" that I did train. I couldn't train in any more so he joined a boxing gym and there it did happen. I just had 6 months training with him, he started from zero. I like the balm strikes as well but in risky situation I do automaticity a fist. Either my training and some sort of luck made me never injury my fist when some stubborn people tried to hit my fist with their head.

Btw I did regular stretching for my legs and I made some small improvements. Can do higher kicks and feel less pain. Still a long way to go. High kicks are still not possible, not to mention any sort of speed kick with a turnaround.

If you had to, in your opinion choose one style overall for being the most practical application to real world which style would you choose?

Quote: (12-27-2017 03:31 PM)Rain97 Wrote:  

If you had to, in your opinion choose one style overall for being the most practical application to real world which style would you choose?

That is not a short answer but if you want one, Russian Systema incorporates literally everything. The entire Systema Suite is likely Russian military only, but some areas incorporate various guns to varying degrees, like some of the outfits around Washington DC area, where some of the agency dudes do their training.

Since you are UK based, basic Systema is more than enough, but if you take that for a while, it may be good to check out more knife fighting applications and take Filipino Kali/Silat/Escrima. Knives are just tooooo fucking common where you live. Which is why this is not supposed to be a quick answer, it truly depends upon where you live and their local laws.

Quote: (12-27-2017 03:31 PM)Rain97 Wrote:  

If you had to, in your opinion choose one style overall for being the most practical application to real world which style would you choose?

As for empty handed I'd say Muay Thai. I say this while still holding Kung Fu close to my heart. With a few months of hard training in MT at a good gym, you'd stomp all over 90% of Karate, Tae Kwon Do, and Kung Fu practitioners with years of practice.

It's got the brutal striking with 8 limps, along with upper body grappling that would give you some chance against BJJ guys.

However it's only because of Kung Fu and the corresponding cane and sword training that I could use a cane, mop, broom, or other such object effectively.

Quote: (12-27-2017 04:03 PM)Moto Wrote:  

Quote: (12-27-2017 03:31 PM)Rain97 Wrote:  

If you had to, in your opinion choose one style overall for being the most practical application to real world which style would you choose?

As for empty handed I'd say Muay Thai. I say this while still holding Kung Fu close to my heart. With a few months of hard training in MT at a good gym, you'd stomp all over 90% of Karate, Tae Kwon Do, and Kung Fu practitioners with years of practice.

It's got the brutal striking with 8 limps, along with upper body grappling that would give you some chance against BJJ guys.

However it's only because of Kung Fu and the corresponding cane and sword training that I could use a cane, mop, broom, or other such object effectively.

This.

Muay Thai is the most complete striking art. It'd be good to learn take down defense separately in case you ever have to tango with a grappler.

Knife fighhting wouldn't be a bad idea either. Though I'd rather just work on my 100m sprint.;-)

Quote: (12-27-2017 04:03 PM)Moto Wrote:  

Quote: (12-27-2017 03:31 PM)Rain97 Wrote:  

If you had to, in your opinion choose one style overall for being the most practical application to real world which style would you choose?

As for empty handed I'd say Muay Thai. I say this while still holding Kung Fu close to my heart. With a few months of hard training in MT at a good gym, you'd stomp all over 90% of Karate, Tae Kwon Do, and Kung Fu practitioners with years of practice.

It's got the brutal striking with 8 limps, along with upper body grappling that would give you some chance against BJJ guys.

Unless I misread him, I think he was talking about self defense (He wrote "Real World").

Muay Thai is not very good for self defense. It can have it's moments, but Muay Thai is essentially a young man's art. The younger you are and the higher your testosterone, the more powerful it is.

Once you get 35, you are not going to standing roundhouse kick some asshole's head off in the middle of the street, with one son/daughter in hand and groceries in the other hand. When you were 20, that kick would have KO'd 98% of the Earth's population, but Father Time is unbeaten and not kind to us after a while. Ask Anderson Silva's shin and it can tell you all about that. There are a ton of environmental factors to take into consideration.

That's why I wrote this datasheet out in a way that someone could consider martial arts for every stage of a man's life and all applications.

Martial Arts IS life, but it is also a tool. Sometimes you do not need a hammer but sometimes you need a scalpel. Use the correct tool for the correct application. Fight smarter, not harder.

Quote: (12-27-2017 04:14 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

Quote: (12-27-2017 04:03 PM)Moto Wrote:  

Quote: (12-27-2017 03:31 PM)Rain97 Wrote:  

If you had to, in your opinion choose one style overall for being the most practical application to real world which style would you choose?

As for empty handed I'd say Muay Thai. I say this while still holding Kung Fu close to my heart. With a few months of hard training in MT at a good gym, you'd stomp all over 90% of Karate, Tae Kwon Do, and Kung Fu practitioners with years of practice.

It's got the brutal striking with 8 limps, along with upper body grappling that would give you some chance against BJJ guys.

Unless I misread him, I think he was talking about self defense (He wrote "Real World").

Muay Thai is not very good for self defense. It can have it's moments, but Muay Thai is essentially a young man's art. The younger you are and the higher your testosterone, the more powerful it is.

Once you get 35, you are not going to standing roundhouse kick some asshole's head off in the middle of the street, with one son/daughter in hand and groceries in the other hand. When you were 20, that kick would have KO'd 98% of the Earth's population, but Father Time is unbeaten and not kind to us after a while. Ask Anderson Silva's shin and it can tell you all about that. There are a ton of environmental factors to take into consideration.

That's why I wrote this datasheet out in a way that someone could consider martial arts for every stage of a man's life and all applications.

Martial Arts IS life, but it is also a tool. Sometimes you do not need a hammer but sometimes you need a scalpel. Use the correct tool for the correct application. Fight smarter, not harder.

I'm gonna have to disagree with you there. Elbows, Shins, Knees, Sweeps...you can do a lot of damage with those weapons against trained and untrained people alike.

Any martial art is going to be more effective when wielded by a strong young man. No question there.

I'd argue the grappling martial arts are LESS effective when you get older. Explosive speed and strength is needed for takedowns. Anderson Silva was kicking ass 'til 40. Can you say the same about the wrestlers in the UFC?

Attempting a head kick in a self-defense scenario (not warmed up, slippery ground,etc.) is a bad idea 99% of the time. Close range, I'd probably probably clinch and knee the fucker. If I suspect a knife, teep and run.

The biggest advantage a Nak Muay has (young or old) is he knows how to take a hit. A lot of TMA people just freeze when they get punched, and it's hilarious.

Quote: (12-27-2017 04:42 PM)Teep Wrote:  

Quote: (12-27-2017 04:14 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

Quote: (12-27-2017 04:03 PM)Moto Wrote:  

Quote: (12-27-2017 03:31 PM)Rain97 Wrote:  

If you had to, in your opinion choose one style overall for being the most practical application to real world which style would you choose?

As for empty handed I'd say Muay Thai. I say this while still holding Kung Fu close to my heart. With a few months of hard training in MT at a good gym, you'd stomp all over 90% of Karate, Tae Kwon Do, and Kung Fu practitioners with years of practice.

It's got the brutal striking with 8 limps, along with upper body grappling that would give you some chance against BJJ guys.

Unless I misread him, I think he was talking about self defense (He wrote "Real World").

Muay Thai is not very good for self defense. It can have it's moments, but Muay Thai is essentially a young man's art. The younger you are and the higher your testosterone, the more powerful it is.

Once you get 35, you are not going to standing roundhouse kick some asshole's head off in the middle of the street, with one son/daughter in hand and groceries in the other hand. When you were 20, that kick would have KO'd 98% of the Earth's population, but Father Time is unbeaten and not kind to us after a while. Ask Anderson Silva's shin and it can tell you all about that. There are a ton of environmental factors to take into consideration.

That's why I wrote this datasheet out in a way that someone could consider martial arts for every stage of a man's life and all applications.

Martial Arts IS life, but it is also a tool. Sometimes you do not need a hammer but sometimes you need a scalpel. Use the correct tool for the correct application. Fight smarter, not harder.

I'm gonna have to disagree with you there. Elbows, Shins, Knees, Sweeps...you can do a lot of damage with those weapons against trained and untrained people alike.

Any martial art is going to be more effective when wielded by a strong young man. No question there.

I'd argue the grappling martial arts are LESS effective when you get older. Explosive speed and strength is needed for takedowns. Anderson Silva was kicking ass 'til 40. Can you say the same about the wrestlers in the UFC?

Attempting a head kick in a self-defense scenario (not warmed up, slippery ground,etc.) is a bad idea 99% of the time. Close range, I'd probably probably clinch and knee the fucker. If I suspect a knife, teep and run.

The biggest advantage a Nak Muay has (young or old) is he knows how to take a hit. A lot of TMA people just freeze when they get punched, and it's hilarious.

Do you have Anderson Silva genetics? Randy Colture (a top 5 greatest all time UFC wrestler at 40)? Forget genetics for a bit, do you have their skillset and experience?

Are any of these things applicable to the street? Knifes? Multiple attackers? Tight spaces with environmental hazards?

No.

I probably have more Muay Thai pedigree and taught it to amateurs and pros, longer than anyone on this forum (except 1 guy I can think of), and I still went out and learned other styles so that I could have all my bases covered.

If you are A-OK, knowing only Muay Thai as a form of self defense for yourself, Great! Good for you, but do not come in here blowing smoke up people's asses as if any sport system is real world applicable for self defense. It's 2017. That argument is dead in some Sherdog forum thread probably from the early 2000s. It's a ridiculous argument and is typical of someone very young with little to no experience in real world dangerous encounters.

Quote: (12-27-2017 05:02 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

Quote: (12-27-2017 04:42 PM)Teep Wrote:  

Quote: (12-27-2017 04:14 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

Quote: (12-27-2017 04:03 PM)Moto Wrote:  

Quote: (12-27-2017 03:31 PM)Rain97 Wrote:  

If you had to, in your opinion choose one style overall for being the most practical application to real world which style would you choose?

As for empty handed I'd say Muay Thai. I say this while still holding Kung Fu close to my heart. With a few months of hard training in MT at a good gym, you'd stomp all over 90% of Karate, Tae Kwon Do, and Kung Fu practitioners with years of practice.

It's got the brutal striking with 8 limps, along with upper body grappling that would give you some chance against BJJ guys.

Unless I misread him, I think he was talking about self defense (He wrote "Real World").

Muay Thai is not very good for self defense. It can have it's moments, but Muay Thai is essentially a young man's art. The younger you are and the higher your testosterone, the more powerful it is.

Once you get 35, you are not going to standing roundhouse kick some asshole's head off in the middle of the street, with one son/daughter in hand and groceries in the other hand. When you were 20, that kick would have KO'd 98% of the Earth's population, but Father Time is unbeaten and not kind to us after a while. Ask Anderson Silva's shin and it can tell you all about that. There are a ton of environmental factors to take into consideration.

That's why I wrote this datasheet out in a way that someone could consider martial arts for every stage of a man's life and all applications.

Martial Arts IS life, but it is also a tool. Sometimes you do not need a hammer but sometimes you need a scalpel. Use the correct tool for the correct application. Fight smarter, not harder.

I'm gonna have to disagree with you there. Elbows, Shins, Knees, Sweeps...you can do a lot of damage with those weapons against trained and untrained people alike.

Any martial art is going to be more effective when wielded by a strong young man. No question there.

I'd argue the grappling martial arts are LESS effective when you get older. Explosive speed and strength is needed for takedowns. Anderson Silva was kicking ass 'til 40. Can you say the same about the wrestlers in the UFC?

Attempting a head kick in a self-defense scenario (not warmed up, slippery ground,etc.) is a bad idea 99% of the time. Close range, I'd probably probably clinch and knee the fucker. If I suspect a knife, teep and run.

The biggest advantage a Nak Muay has (young or old) is he knows how to take a hit. A lot of TMA people just freeze when they get punched, and it's hilarious.

Do you have Anderson Silva genetics? Randy Colture (a top 5 greatest all time UFC wrestler at 40)? Forget genetics for a bit, do you have their skillset and experience?

Are any of these things applicable to the street? Knifes? Multiple attackers? Tight spaces with environmental hazards?

No.

I probably have more Muay Thai pedigree and taught it to amateurs and pros, longer than anyone on this forum (except 1 guy I can think of), and I still went out and learned other styles so that I could have all my bases covered.

If you are A-OK, knowing only Muay Thai as a form of self defense for yourself, Great! Good for you, but do not come in here blowing smoke up people's asses as if any sport system is real world applicable for self defense. It's 2017. That argument is dead in some Sherdog forum thread probably from the early 2000s. It's a ridiculous argument and is typical of someone very young with little to no experience in real world dangerous encounters.

Why would I need Anderson Silva genetics or experience to KO some drunk bum with a knee?

Knives, multiple attackers,etc..are really red herrings. Most martial artists would be better off running in those scenarios. But if I HAD to stand my ground, I'm confident I could KO 2-3 untrained guys.

It may be a sporting system today, but its origins are very much hand to hand combat on the battle field. There's a reason why everybody in the UFC trains in it.

Out of curiosity, what martial arts do you deem to be more effective?

Quote: (12-27-2017 04:14 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

Quote: (12-27-2017 04:03 PM)Moto Wrote:  

Quote: (12-27-2017 03:31 PM)Rain97 Wrote:  

If you had to, in your opinion choose one style overall for being the most practical application to real world which style would you choose?

As for empty handed I'd say Muay Thai. I say this while still holding Kung Fu close to my heart. With a few months of hard training in MT at a good gym, you'd stomp all over 90% of Karate, Tae Kwon Do, and Kung Fu practitioners with years of practice.

It's got the brutal striking with 8 limps, along with upper body grappling that would give you some chance against BJJ guys.

Unless I misread him, I think he was talking about self defense (He wrote "Real World").

Muay Thai is not very good for self defense. It can have it's moments, but Muay Thai is essentially a young man's art. The younger you are and the higher your testosterone, the more powerful it is.

Once you get 35, you are not going to standing roundhouse kick some asshole's head off in the middle of the street, with one son/daughter in hand and groceries in the other hand. When you were 20, that kick would have KO'd 98% of the Earth's population, but Father Time is unbeaten and not kind to us after a while. Ask Anderson Silva's shin and it can tell you all about that. There are a ton of environmental factors to take into consideration.

That's why I wrote this datasheet out in a way that someone could consider martial arts for every stage of a man's life and all applications.

Martial Arts IS life, but it is also a tool. Sometimes you do not need a hammer but sometimes you need a scalpel. Use the correct tool for the correct application. Fight smarter, not harder.

Thank you. After you started your reply I added more about highly useful bits from other arts. I know little about Systema, but that like Krav Maga (and the Kung Fu school I trained at that was anti-competition/sports) lacks competition. It's hard to breed high levels of competence without true competition. High school collegiate wrestling is great not because of the art itself (what is the point of trying to pin someone's shoulder blades on the ground?) but because of the high levels of competition and sheer volume of competitors training very hard.

If someone is choosing just one art, I'd suggest one with competition, even though it will inevitably lack total preparedness for the street.

Though I'm likely taking your metaphor too literally, the "scalpels" in a striking style would be eye gouges, half-fists to the throat, middle-knuckles to temples and ribs... Kung Fu stuff.

So my answer to OP is similar to yours and your history: Muay Thai base and then learn other things selectively and strategically to fill up the holes in your game. I believe (kick)boxing / Muay Thai, Kung Fu, and wrestling is a decent combo, but not the only good one. There isn't just one perfect art to learn to be best prepared for a street fight. And much depends on the instructor/coach and available sparring partners regardless of art/sport.

Quote: (12-27-2017 06:02 PM)Moto Wrote:  

Quote: (12-27-2017 04:14 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

Quote: (12-27-2017 04:03 PM)Moto Wrote:  

Quote: (12-27-2017 03:31 PM)Rain97 Wrote:  

If you had to, in your opinion choose one style overall for being the most practical application to real world which style would you choose?

As for empty handed I'd say Muay Thai. I say this while still holding Kung Fu close to my heart. With a few months of hard training in MT at a good gym, you'd stomp all over 90% of Karate, Tae Kwon Do, and Kung Fu practitioners with years of practice.

It's got the brutal striking with 8 limps, along with upper body grappling that would give you some chance against BJJ guys.

Unless I misread him, I think he was talking about self defense (He wrote "Real World").

Muay Thai is not very good for self defense. It can have it's moments, but Muay Thai is essentially a young man's art. The younger you are and the higher your testosterone, the more powerful it is.

Once you get 35, you are not going to standing roundhouse kick some asshole's head off in the middle of the street, with one son/daughter in hand and groceries in the other hand. When you were 20, that kick would have KO'd 98% of the Earth's population, but Father Time is unbeaten and not kind to us after a while. Ask Anderson Silva's shin and it can tell you all about that. There are a ton of environmental factors to take into consideration.

That's why I wrote this datasheet out in a way that someone could consider martial arts for every stage of a man's life and all applications.

Martial Arts IS life, but it is also a tool. Sometimes you do not need a hammer but sometimes you need a scalpel. Use the correct tool for the correct application. Fight smarter, not harder.

Thank you. After you started your reply I added more about highly useful bits from other arts. I know little about Systema, but that like Krav Maga (and the Kung Fu school I trained at that was anti-competition/sports) lacks competition. It's hard to breed high levels of competence without true competition. High school collegiate wrestling is great not because of the art itself (what is the point of trying to pin someone's shoulder blades on the ground?) but because of the high levels of competition and sheer volume of competitors training very hard.

If someone is choosing just one art, I'd suggest one with competition, even though it will inevitably lack total preparedness for the street.

Though I'm likely taking your metaphor too literally, the "scalpels" in a striking style would be eye gouges, half-fists to the throat, middle-knuckles to temples and ribs... Kung Fu stuff.

So my answer to OP is similar to yours and your history: Muay Thai base and then learn other things selectively and strategically to fill up the holes in your game. I believe (kick)boxing / Muay Thai, Kung Fu, and wrestling is a decent combo, but not the only good one. There isn't just one perfect art to learn to be best prepared for a street fight. And much depends on the instructor/coach and available sparring partners regardless of art/sport.

You do not need competition to be competent at self defense. The knowledge of what to do is what is most important. Various drills (toned down for safety) is critical after that.

You do not need to be a world famous competition shooter like some RVF members are, to learn how to defend yourself on the street. Understanding core concepts like Boarding House Rules, 21 Foot Rule, +1 Rule, etc. go tremendous lengths to help you actually make the right decision on the street with your handgun.

Doing drills, like what you see with Active Shooter Training, or CQC Training, prepares you for these things. Not rolling around with another guy in combat fatigues in the dirt to get tough.

Martial Arts for hand to hand combat and street defense is no different than sport fighting in this regard. There is no reason to rely on competitive fighting to get good at disarming a knife or a broken whiskey bottle. The reason why is because if you did, you could possibly die in practice. What's the point of that? That's why Judo was created. Dudes getting killed in Japanese Ju Jitsu practice.

As time goes on, better practice and drill techniques and habits have shown us that drills work, if you take them seriously and do them correctly.

I get this kind of PM all the time in my inbox here. It's always a boxer or kickboxer looking for advice on why he cannot do better in sparring sessions, why does he hesitate in between punches, and why is he not confident during matches.

If it is not that, its one these below:

A) My combinations are not smooth and not natural.
B) I gas out too fast.
C) I lack aggression.

Anytime I ask them in detail about how much drill practice they are doing, it ends up being little to none.

Tsk Tsk....



Young men LOVE shortcuts.

White belts love cranking submissions full power in practice. They love jumping and slamming others.

New boxers love sparring.

Oh you know the story, I might even be talking about you or Teep. "Man I just wanna get in there and learn man, and just get going!" "I feel like if I can get more mat/ring time, I will improve alot man!" so don't even bullshit about it and are straight to the point. "I just wanna get in the ring man!"

Meanwhile, boxing instructor for 25 years is thinking, "Sure thing kid. Whatever you say." Then they send their better boxing prospects to work his dumb ass like a piece of fresh meat for a lion.

Then you see pros spending maybe 20% of their training camp actually sparring...... Floyd Mayweather is not the only one that does this guys.....






Even Lomachenko catches coins and drills hand eye coordination.











These guys refine those "little things" the "typical young man" has no time or patience for. He just wanna fuggin box! He just wanna fuggin fight. Like Right the Fuck Now!

Floyd makes perfect punches in his sleep. Perfect angles, not too far, not too short, perfect shoulder ball angle. Hips, knees, and feet are on point! Everytime!

He was not born this way. He did not learn this from sparring and competition. He learned it from repetitive drills that would make most people vomit or quit from boredom.

Doug Marcaida can slice off a few tendons off your arm in a few seconds with a karambit. Did he learn this in competition? No. He learned it from repetition.

Same thing with the disarms. You do them till you can do them blindfolded.

When it really happens to you someday, it will be second nature, just like Lomachenko doing a pivot in a boxing match.

Tyson is famous for saying that everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face. You may not remember your game plan. He's 100% correct. Your training and your drills makes what you do these things as second nature and that is what you rely on, even if you are hardly conscious and bleeding.

^^Thanks for the vids. I love analyzing these fighters, and drills, bags, speed bags, mitts, I even think forms/katas of traditional martial arts have a lot of value. So not talking about me, or anything I was saying. Wasn't trying to argue or contradict, just maybe complement.

@Kai, what can you say about Frank Ropers?

A few pages ago you recommend me taking Pencat Silat, well looks like this guy's among the most legit in Europe. And they have classes literally right next door to me.

A link to one of his vids, you can find plenty others in the suggestions.







What's your impression?

Quote: (12-28-2017 08:19 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

@Kai, what can you say about Frank Ropers?

A few pages ago you recommend me taking Pencat Silat, well looks like this guy's among the most legit in Europe. And they have classes literally right next door to me.

A link to one of his vids, you can find plenty others in the suggestions.

What's your impression?

I cannot remember if he is the guy I told you about or another guy but it doesn't matter really. Frank is a big dog in the Silat world. France in general is a hub for Silat.

French silat is truly its own style but it's still great to learn. I would study with him myself if I were you.

I love how he is teaching in a mock bar environment. Just goes to show how thorough he is.

Silat teaches you how to attack weak areas a person cannot defend well or at all, taking advantage of the angles given. No sport system can give you this knowledge however I always recommend boxing for guys to get your conditioning at a nice and high level. Learn Silat for a year or two, take a break and box at a local gym to perfect good punches. You could even do it at the same time, it's no problem. Boxing is cheap but the conditioning is priceless.

French use alot of open hands. Jason Bourne used alot more closed and more fists. That's where guys get confused sometimes. Neither is better than another and you can interchange for personal preference.

I always recommend Silat. That's what I learned. Makes you ultra street smart about encounters. Makes you target weak spots like a missile system with your eyes. I found out about Systema later in life. Systema is like a hyper focused version of ju jitstsu. It's not as offensive as Silat is. Watch a Bourne movie and you can notice that he does not wait to be hit, and walks into striking people. Mid stride and bam.

In some ways that style fits certain guys more than Systema might. However Systema has more tools than Silat.

For you in Paris, Silat could save your life big time.

What are somethings an individual could practice if no training facilities are currently available.

I have searched tirelessly for a nearby boxing gym but there is not a single one less than an hour away from my city.

Are there any general routines that can be applied alone or with a partner to enhance ones fighting ability? Not necessarily even boxing.

I will not have consistant access to a gym/dojo for the next few years due to my location sadly.

Quote: (12-28-2017 02:18 PM)Vet-Boy Wrote:  

What are somethings an individual could practice if no training facilities are currently available.

I have searched tirelessly for a nearby boxing gym but there is not a single one less than an hour away from my city.

Are there any general routines that can be applied alone or with a partner to enhance ones fighting ability? Not necessarily even boxing.

I will not have consistant access to a gym/dojo for the next few years due to my location sadly.

If you are living in a remote location I empathize with you and I completely understand. Been there myself a few times growing up.

While no instructor worth his salt would ever recommend someone learn off videos (including myself), I can still recommend : https://www.systemaspetsnaz.com/

Get those, study the mindset, the foundation, and the strategy. When you get older or move out, then get the actual training in person.

The only fighters that can learn from film study are generally advanced/master level/professional level students. Beginners typically cannot learn a martial art like that, mostly because they do not have a base to work off of. I know so many systems myself that I can produce scouting reports for pro fighters and coaches all from watching film for a few hours. It could be damn near anything too. For you, you still need in person instruction to get that foundation. Someday you will get there, so don't worry. Life changes fast and situations too.

If you are not far from Toronto in the future, one of the main schools with Russian teachers is there. In fact the some of the same guys in the video I believe, but don't quote me on that.

Don't go to Toronto for the pussy. Go there for the fighting!

Thanks Kai, signing up next years! See despite the shit show going on Paris this city still has so much to offer.

Quote: (12-27-2017 02:08 PM)Parzival Wrote:  

Quote: (12-17-2017 04:21 PM)Teep Wrote:  

Anyone else interested in bare-knuckle boxing techniques?

It's occurred to me that a boxer (or nak muay in my case) is in many ways ill-prepared for a street fight because of gloves and wrist wraps -- the former producing poor knuckle alignment and the latter weak wrists.

A lot of boxing techniques would GUARANTEE a broken hand in a street fight, leaving a pure boxer defenseless. The open glove jab/flick comes to mind.

What I do is not to wrap my wrist when I train. Also I do makiwara training to harde it up. Not sure how good it is but I'm a fan of the hardcore Karate way that say, when you are harder then the enemies that want to break you, its better. But I did push ups on my knuckles and hit on walls since long time, now got a makiwara. I know two friends that broke their wrist. One started boxing after many years of powerlifting. Hit the heavy bag with to much power and bad technique. Second is my "student" that I did train. I couldn't train in any more so he joined a boxing gym and there it did happen. I just had 6 months training with him, he started from zero. I like the balm strikes as well but in risky situation I do automaticity a fist. Either my training and some sort of luck made me never injury my fist when some stubborn people tried to hit my fist with their head.

Btw I did regular stretching for my legs and I made some small improvements. Can do higher kicks and feel less pain. Still a long way to go. High kicks are still not possible, not to mention any sort of speed kick with a turnaround.

Don't end up hitting rocks next like Morio Higaonna.





My training is almost the same as yours. I do knuckles push ups and heavy bag training to strengthen my wrists and knuckles.

Also, I do a lot of chiishi exercises and a little bit of nigiri gami and ishisashi (using kettlebells) exercises.

Quote: (12-27-2017 03:54 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

Quote: (12-27-2017 03:31 PM)Rain97 Wrote:  

If you had to, in your opinion choose one style overall for being the most practical application to real world which style would you choose?

That is not a short answer but if you want one, Russian Systema incorporates literally everything. The entire Systema Suite is likely Russian military only, but some areas incorporate various guns to varying degrees, like some of the outfits around Washington DC area, where some of the agency dudes do their training.

Since you are UK based, basic Systema is more than enough, but if you take that for a while, it may be good to check out more knife fighting applications and take Filipino Kali/Silat/Escrima. Knives are just tooooo fucking common where you live. Which is why this is not supposed to be a quick answer, it truly depends upon where you live and their local laws.

I wholeheartedly agreed with TravelerKai's suggestions on Systema, FMA (Filipino Martial arts) and Silat.

For years, my training background is focused on traditional Japanese/Okinawan martial arts (karate, kobudo, batto) on top of Hapkido. I have always been interested in FMA despite there isn't a school in my area. I tend to follow Dough Marcaida because there are so many weapons that I didn't even know about. These video contained a wealth of information.

Quote: (12-28-2017 01:29 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

Quote: (12-28-2017 08:19 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

@Kai, what can you say about Frank Ropers?

A few pages ago you recommend me taking Pencat Silat, well looks like this guy's among the most legit in Europe. And they have classes literally right next door to me.

A link to one of his vids, you can find plenty others in the suggestions.

What's your impression?

I cannot remember if he is the guy I told you about or another guy but it doesn't matter really. Frank is a big dog in the Silat world. France in general is a hub for Silat.

French silat is truly its own style but it's still great to learn. I would study with him myself if I were you.

I love how he is teaching in a mock bar environment. Just goes to show how thorough he is.

Silat teaches you how to attack weak areas a person cannot defend well or at all, taking advantage of the angles given. No sport system can give you this knowledge however I always recommend boxing for guys to get your conditioning at a nice and high level. Learn Silat for a year or two, take a break and box at a local gym to perfect good punches. You could even do it at the same time, it's no problem. Boxing is cheap but the c
onditioning is priceless.

French use alot of open hands. Jason Bourne used alot more closed and more fists. That's where guys get confused sometimes. Neither is better than another and you can interchange for personal preference.

I always recommend Silat. That's what I learned. Makes you ultra street smart about encounters. Makes you target weak spots like a missile system with your eyes. I found out about Systema later in life. Systema is like a hyper focused version of ju jitstsu. It's not as offensive as Silat is. Watch a Bourne movie and you can notice that he does not wait to be hit, and walks into striking people. Mid stride and bam.

In some ways that style fits certain guys more than Systema might. However Systema has more tools than Silat.

For you in Paris, Silat could save your life big time.

Have you checked out Fred Mastro's Mastro Defence System (MDS)? If not, it is worth checking him out as he's based in France and his background is also Silat, FMA and Kali.

This one is waaay too good to pass up and not discuss.

How many of you think you could have gotten out of this shitty rear naked chokehold? Have you had any training to know how to do so? This is yet another reason to learn some form of a grappling style (BJJ, Aikido, JJ, Judo, Wrestling) for even just one years worth of time. Boxing would not help you in this situation.

Some quick tips, if this ever happens to you:

1. Pressure Point #10 on the tip of the nose, push it with your thumb and you can peel him off you. You have to push hard and fully commit to pushing the tip of his nose to the side, otherwise he could bob his head down and out of your grip. Use your other 4 fingers and cup his chin and jaw. Use your other hand to pull his choke off.

2. Use both hands under his elbow and push it upward to the sky. If that is not enough, go to number 3.

3. Turn your face into the direction of his chest while doing number 2. Ideally on the grappling mat, during practice, you would always do 2 and 3 together. However, this is a self defense situation. Turning your neck unnecessarily could get you hurt even more.

4. If the above fails, attempt to punch his eyes. He would have to drop some of that grip to avoid that, but you better bring your hands up to cover your face when he does, otherwise he will punch your lights out.

5. Never let yourself get as fat as that guy. Not only did his weight get in the way of his self defense, it contributed to him getting stuck in his seat and unable to pull away from a shitty rear naked choke. This guy's choke was as bad as a first day student in a BJJ class. Maybe worse. A correctly done choke makes a person pass out in 3 seconds. Most decent white belts (with stripes) can do that.

6. If you take Aikido, or Japanese Ju Jitsu (JJ), you can easily break out of these. Using SJM (Small Joint Manipulation), which is illegal in BJJ to use generally, you could break that grip without wasting energy, get the guy off you, and run away (if it makes sense to do so).

Anyway, tell me what you guys think about the video as well as some lessons learned. I gotta get back to it.

EDIT: egregious mistakes

Quote: (01-01-2018 10:27 PM)budoslavic Wrote:  

Quote: (12-28-2017 01:29 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

Quote: (12-28-2017 08:19 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

@Kai, what can you say about Frank Ropers?

A few pages ago you recommend me taking Pencat Silat, well looks like this guy's among the most legit in Europe. And they have classes literally right next door to me.

A link to one of his vids, you can find plenty others in the suggestions.

What's your impression?

I cannot remember if he is the guy I told you about or another guy but it doesn't matter really. Frank is a big dog in the Silat world. France in general is a hub for Silat.

French silat is truly its own style but it's still great to learn. I would study with him myself if I were you.

I love how he is teaching in a mock bar environment. Just goes to show how thorough he is.

Silat teaches you how to attack weak areas a person cannot defend well or at all, taking advantage of the angles given. No sport system can give you this knowledge however I always recommend boxing for guys to get your conditioning at a nice and high level. Learn Silat for a year or two, take a break and box at a local gym to perfect good punches. You could even do it at the same time, it's no problem. Boxing is cheap but the c
onditioning is priceless.

French use alot of open hands. Jason Bourne used alot more closed and more fists. That's where guys get confused sometimes. Neither is better than another and you can interchange for personal preference.

I always recommend Silat. That's what I learned. Makes you ultra street smart about encounters. Makes you target weak spots like a missile system with your eyes. I found out about Systema later in life. Systema is like a hyper focused version of ju jitstsu. It's not as offensive as Silat is. Watch a Bourne movie and you can notice that he does not wait to be hit, and walks into striking people. Mid stride and bam.

In some ways that style fits certain guys more than Systema might. However Systema has more tools than Silat.

For you in Paris, Silat could save your life big time.

Have you checked out Fred Mastro's Mastro Defence System (MDS)? If not, it is worth checking him out[/url] as he's based in France and his background is also Silat, FMA and Kali.

Fred Mastro is a grandmaster. He's big in the Silat world. Watching his French style Silat is always beautiful in action. If I could I would train with him just to learn a few things, even if I don't really need to. If I made a short list of people I would train under just for fun, he's easily in my top 10.

The other French and Belgium dudes in the videos look very solid and seem highly knowledgeable as well.

Quote: (01-31-2018 04:42 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

This one is waaay too good to pass up and not discuss.

How many of you think you could have gotten out of this shitty rear naked chokehold? Have you had any training to know how to do so? This is yet another reason to learn some form of a grappling style (BJJ, Aikido, JJ, Judo, Wrestling) for even just one years worth of time. Boxing would not help you in this situation.

Some quick tips, if this ever happens to you:

1. Pressure Point #10 on the tip of the nose, push it with your thumb and you can peel him off you. You have to push hard and fully commit to pushing the tip of his nose to the side, otherwise he could bob his head down and out of your grip. Use your other 4 fingers and cup his chin and jaw. Use your other hand to pull his choke off.

2. Use both hands under his elbow and push it upward to the sky. If that is not enough, go to number 3.

3. Turn your face into the direction of his chest while doing number 2. Ideally on the grappling mat, during practice, you would always do 2 and 3 together. However, this is a self defense situation. Turning your neck unnecessarily could get you hurt even more.

4. If the above fails, attempt to punch his eyes. He would have to drop some of that grip to avoid that, but you better bring your hands up to cover your face when he does, otherwise he will punch your lights out.

5. Never let yourself get as fat as that guy. Not only did his weight get in the way of his self defense, it contributed to him getting stuck in his seat and unable to pull away from a shitty rear naked choke. This guy's choke was as bad as a first day student in a BJJ class. Maybe worse. A correctly done choke makes a person pass out in 3 seconds. Most decent white belts (with stripes) can do that.

6. If you take Aikido, or Japanese Ju Jitsu (JJ), you can easily break out of these. Using SJM (Small Joint Manipulation), which is illegal in BJJ to use generally, you could break that grip without wasting energy, get the guy off you, and run away (if it makes sense to do so).

Anyway, tell me what you guys think about the video as well as some lessons learned. I gotta get back to it.

EDIT: egregious mistakes

Damn. That's the worst chokehold I've ever seen. Still, it's disturbing to see how even a shitty move can work on you if you are totally untrained. I sometimes forget how little most people know about leveraging, positioning, pressuring, etc.

If the cabbie had pushed the guy's left elbow up, he'd be practically out, the aggressor barely had a grip. You mentioned SJM - after removing the left arm, he could probably have peeled the guy's right arm (the choking arm) off if he grabbed one finger and pulled it/yanked it from left to right.

I think one of the most important takeaways from this video is something that I think you've touched upon before - you gotta fight back.

I was listening to someone on JRE recently and they were talking about how most people associate danger with going into "fight or flight" mode. In reality, it's more like fight, flight or freeze, and most people tend to freeze.

I think he's instinctively doing the right thing by turning to the side he's being choked - it gives him a bit more space to breathe. But he doesn't put up much of a fight. He attemps to break the chokehold, not hurt the aggressor.

Anyways one thing that I think would really get in the way in this scenario is the seatbelt. Presuming I'd escaped that choke first thing I would try to do is get out of the car but by the time I had undone the seatbelt and opened the door the guy might have grabbed me again.

This is a very challening scenario - you have your back to the guy, close quarters, multiple objects in the way.

Side note. found a video that shows similar technique to what I've learned. This is for a front choke but you can see the finger locks. I was very surprised at how effective they were on me when I resisted against them.