Hi Guys -

I'm hoping the esteemed gentlemen on this forum can help me with a girl I was planning to wife-up. I met her in Krakow in July. I'm 39 and she's 26. My notch count is around 50. We first had sex on the 5th date. No tattoos. Good relationship with parents. An IQ of around 130.

This girl is beautiful and smart, traditional and feminine. She has two small businesses and can speak 5 languages. In month three I began to see some cracks. She can be needy (wanting me to text more), controlling, somewhat dismissive at times (saying she's "not interested" if we're on the phone and I begin to tell her something), never asks any real questions about my day-to-day life.

Any minor and sporadic failure living up to the ideal of man-as-leader is noted. I have done my best to correct her behaviour. The way I pack my suitcase is criticised. I'll warn her that I do things my way, and she can do things her way. Controlling behaviour makes my dick go limp. I have warned her about this.

As a result, around the 4 month mark I noticed that I was becoming stressed in her company.

Disclaimer: She treats me well otherwise. She cooks, she cleans, generous blow-jobs.

Admittedly, I've treated her like beta-bucks. This is for many reasons, not least because I was serious about this girl, and because she wasn't just some Tinder ONS. Though I've paid for 85% of things, she has also paid for some of our trips (flights and apartments), and allows me to stay in her home when I'm visiting.

She's also had an ongoing leg injury from a gym session in June, and has started taking a cocktail of pills daily. Her mood is affected by the pain in a huge way. The injury is not healing. I am concerned.

When we first met she had plans to move to Paris. During the "honeymoon period" I was love drunk and agreed to move there with her. We never sat down and had a logistical discussion about this, but it was tacitly agreed. Back then of course I wanted to do this, and was caught up in the idea of it all.

She has recently told me she probably won't have any work there for the first few months while she finds clients. Alarm bells went off as I'm not sure I'm in a financial position to be able to afford this. I pulled out of Paris. I just need to get to know her a bit more before making such a huge decision. Also, this ongoing injury has me worried. It won't heal and her mood will continue to be affected by it.

I feel like she is trying to completely rearrange my life and I don't know her well enough to want to commit to anything at this stage.

She's also leaving Krakow at the end of February and coming to my home before she leaves for Paris, on her own. I'm a little distressed that she comes here and ends up staying as she'll be in effect homeless when she arrives here.

I've realised that at 39 I need to cash my chips in at some point if I want a family.

My gut tells me to jump ship while my brain says not to give up so soon as she has many qualities I've been looking for in a wife.

Thanks, guys!

How much time did you spend with her in person? Is this some long distance thing?

Sounds like you're convenient for her.

Theres seemingly a lot of red flags to be concerned about. If youre not sure then having her come live with you may be just the "try before you buy" opportunity you need to let you know the truth. Nothing like living with a woman to let you know the truth about whats shes really like.

I'll also add that with EE women youre in the LTR game major leagues. You can not show any weaknesses. Take the hard line and call her on her bullshit. Be calm but firm. Stern but not abusive. You have to lead . She will quickly lose respect for you if you dont and any attraction for you will be right behind it.

EE women are the top of the food chain as far as women go for me, I love their look, and they know how to look after a man.

But fuck me they are hard work.

You can't relax, they need a firm hand at all times. They are hard work.

She's been testing you, and you are not quite passing. You should never get stressed at their testing, only brush it off as childish stupidity. But I know how hard that is, and I have failed in the same way. They are relentless, and will find your cracks.

If you can set up the trial live in period, all will be revealed. If you can hang in there, and if she is worth all the HARD WORK.

At almost 40 your learning some valuable lessons from this EE woman. This current life lesson will assist you in the future for saving yourself time and stress. So thank her for that "gift" when your quietly reflecting on your relationship later.

To her your the provider she has let you know by sex that she has entered into a relationship with you

Ukrainians mindset (for girls older than 20) is that anything they have will be taken away (they spend all money quickly) their apartment, thier lifestyle their car and even their man will cheat and leave.

Most older Ukrainian girls being the hardship driven practical people they are know (in their heads) they will be alone and have to provide for themselves (take full advantage of beauty power while they can) and also for a child(s).....soft bellied tender footed touchy feely cry baby rich westerners they have no time for. (who cares about your stupid day...or even who you are!!!!)

The women want relationship failure "upfront" or complete dominance to protect themselves

This isn't a shit test ....it's push/pull and like what PappaTapper wrote "you have to lead"....you almost have to become the womans fucking Father...meaning provider...endless love...confidence...loyal....principled...respected...patience...strength...guid​ance.

If this women is "leading" you to Paris and working on her own career plans you may be right on thinking your just a "platform" for her.

I didn't see where you spoke Ukrainian.....so I assume she's speaking to you in English (Ukrainian to a foreigner wall or divide)

Also remember that Ukrainian woman know "feelings" get them in trouble (especially when highly educated) and she has family and girlfriends that continually reinforce to her to use her head, warn/caution her and to be practical about her life.

In your case she is already well aware of the cracks in your relationship and will ignore them to follow her lifeplan and as you already kinda know, with you or without you

IMO

Quote: (12-19-2017 07:12 PM)Incubus Wrote:  

I didn't see where you spoke Ukrainian.....so I assume she's speaking to you in English (Ukrainian to a foreigner wall or divide)

Yes, she speaks perfect English.

Thanks for everyone's advice to far.

You are so desperate to please her that you've completely set aside your own happiness. You describe her like she is a goddess but not once did you mention your own career ambitions or future plans.

Your mistake here is that you've failed to set the appropriate tone and standard for the relationship in a way that prioritises your own interests.

You followed her to Paris, you let her openly criticise you, you pay for the majority of things and now she expects to move in with you rent free.

On top of this, you're looking to marry her after just 6 months?!

Tell me, what exactly is she contributing to the relationship apart from relieving your insecurity of being an older single guy?

- Be a man and lead.
- Stop trying so hard to please her.
- You should be the priority in the relationship, not her.
- Stop negotiating with her. If she respects you, she will follow you. If she doesn't, consider approaching new girls and don't make the same mistake with them.

Dump that bitch unless you enjoy being challenged and humiliated all the time for no good reason.

I don't know about you, but I have enough bullshit to deal with in my life without dealing with ball busting, disrespectful bitches.

As a Slav who was in relationships with other Slav women including Ukrainians, I can say with certainty that if she busts your balls even now when it's easy for you to walk away, it will get 100 times worse if you marry her and have children with her. Especially if you both settle in a western country, such as France, and she knows she can divorce rape you and take half of your shit plus many more years of child support.

Also, I disagree that at 39 you need to "cash your chips". There is no rush, just read the "Over 40" thread. Keep looking, there are better girls out there.

Appreciate all the advice so far - even if it's been hard to hear. I've done my best to be firm with this particular girl, but it's been a constant challenge, and I haven't done enough. Her shit-testing has been the worst.

Once again, thanks guys for taking the time.

Hmm. Russian/FSU bitches are the best AND the worst, IMO.
I'm British born but Russian/Slavic on my father's side.
The problem is that red flags with FSUers are harder to spot than with Westerners.

The Russian/FSU world is very proud. So you have to ask why a Ukrainian is looking at the West in this way.
That, and numerous other things.

I've a fair bit of experience with FSUers. One in particular stands out. She was very devout Christian, came over as very kind in the early days.
But I soon started picking up the warnings - alcohol, laziness, lack of honesty and a fair bit more. She said she wanted to settle down with me, but
this coward was nervous about leaving her little Siberian town for Moscow/StP/London etc. Her ex used to beat her up and was ultimately as big a waster as her. So she fell back in with forces of inertia. Moving to Nowheregrad was not something I wanted. And I was utterly astounded at how psycho and how damaged she actually turned out (despite all the twists and turns along the way).

The ones who are considering the West often have problems they are running from back home. They lack honesty and openness. They only respect firmness beyond what is usually needed in the West. They can be two-faced. They can be false and obsessed with winning the big ticket. Watch how they turn from the warmest, nicest, kindness most thoughtful girl you ever met, to the cold, icy liar/basket case.

Your one sadly seems to be living in a fantasy land. Sounds like she may also have some sort of painkiller addiction too, as an aside.
Only you know the full details. Maybe you could give her an ultimatum to try and retrieve it all. Maybe you could give her a genuine acid test of it all.
But she sounds like an opportunist, I'm sorry to say. Tread very carefully. I'd say she sounds the classic toxic Novo-Russkiy on the limited amount I've heard. Good luck.

PS we can see what she wants in life. But what do YOU want? Where do you want to live, doing what etc? Have you ever said "I want to do this, if you want to join me, then we can trial it".

   

Like they say in Russia "кольцо и цветы" ! )))

It takes time to get used to the nuances of a Eastern European woman's personality, especially from Ukraine as these creatures are so different to what we are used to in Western Countries.

Of course you are a little bit pussy whipped, no girl would ever dare to tell me how to pack my suitcase unless it was done in a light hearted manner.

Does she speak French? The job prospects for a girl hobbling around Paris not knowing the lingo will be pretty poor.

If you can score with a pretty Ukrainian girl, then maybe best to ditch her and go to Ukraine and find another

Quote: (12-19-2017 04:05 PM)griffinmill Wrote:  

[...] Any minor and sporadic failure living up to the ideal of man-as-leader is noted. I have done my best to correct her behaviour. The way I pack my suitcase is criticised. [...]

I fail to notice how one can fail at packing up once suitcase? This sounds like passive-aggressive and yes, somewhat first stages of controlling behaviour. Not a good sign...

I think this should not have happened in the first place - fitness test or not, if a girl (and so much younger) insinuates such inanities, then probably worth to look back what might have led to the fact she would even entertain picking up at your suticase's packing methodology?

Quote: (12-20-2017 01:36 PM)ksbms Wrote:  

Quote: (12-19-2017 04:05 PM)griffinmill Wrote:  

[...] Any minor and sporadic failure living up to the ideal of man-as-leader is noted. I have done my best to correct her behaviour. The way I pack my suitcase is criticised. [...]

I fail to notice how one can fail at packing up once suitcase? This sounds like passive-aggressive and yes, somewhat first stages of controlling behaviour. Not a good sign...

I think this should not have happened in the first place - fitness test or not, if a girl (and so much younger) insinuates such inanities, then probably worth to look back what might have led to the fact she would even entertain picking up at your suticase's packing methodology?

Packing it unevenly and not methodically so that it doesn't close correctly. Pathetic and I can't believe we actually had a conversation about it.

I warned her during the first few weeks of dating that I wouldn't tolerate controlling or nagging behaviour. But it's crept in, along with dismissive behaviour, and it's more than likely (though I was conscious of it and tried to temper it), I wasn't forceful enough when I saw the first signs of it.

Quote: (12-20-2017 04:58 PM)griffinmill Wrote:  

Quote: (12-20-2017 01:36 PM)ksbms Wrote:  

Quote: (12-19-2017 04:05 PM)griffinmill Wrote:  

[...] Any minor and sporadic failure living up to the ideal of man-as-leader is noted. I have done my best to correct her behaviour. The way I pack my suitcase is criticised. [...]

I fail to notice how one can fail at packing up once suitcase? This sounds like passive-aggressive and yes, somewhat first stages of controlling behaviour. Not a good sign...

I think this should not have happened in the first place - fitness test or not, if a girl (and so much younger) insinuates such inanities, then probably worth to look back what might have led to the fact she would even entertain picking up at your suticase's packing methodology?

Packing it unevenly and not methodically so that it doesn't close correctly. Pathetic and I can't believe we actually had a conversation about it.

I warned her during the first few weeks of dating that I wouldn't tolerate controlling or nagging behaviour. But it's crept in, along with dismissive behaviour, and it's more than likely (though I was conscious of it and tried to temper it), I wasn't forceful enough when I saw the first signs of it.

You should have just told her to shut the fuck up. That's the only kind of talk that these slavic sluts understand. Brutal yet gentle. That's the way to go with them.

If I was going to enter in debates, conversations or getting bittered by everytime a woman says something similar to me, or shows dislike by the way I am doing somethimg... I would be full of grey hair by now.

It's only going to get worse... You're letting your image of her and what you want distract you from the reality of who she really is....Cut your losses and move on.....

Just another quick example: my current main girl did not respond to my message for 2 hours, I have not been responding to hers for nearly 2 days (and counting)
This is the kind of shit that needs to be done with these ukrainian girls to remind them who's the boss...
they regularly and constantly test you, thankfully I am a fucking bastard son of a bitch to start with, that's why she's still hanging around ahahaha

She's already controlling you. Get the leash back asap before losing for forever.

Girls have a great smelling senses whether if guy will stick around no matter how she treats them or not. I think she already knows that you'll stick around. Stand up and let her know where you stand.

Quote: (12-20-2017 04:58 PM)griffinmill Wrote:  

Quote: (12-20-2017 01:36 PM)ksbms Wrote:  

Quote: (12-19-2017 04:05 PM)griffinmill Wrote:  

[...] Any minor and sporadic failure living up to the ideal of man-as-leader is noted. I have done my best to correct her behaviour. The way I pack my suitcase is criticised. [...]

I fail to notice how one can fail at packing up once suitcase? This sounds like passive-aggressive and yes, somewhat first stages of controlling behaviour. Not a good sign...

I think this should not have happened in the first place - fitness test or not, if a girl (and so much younger) insinuates such inanities, then probably worth to look back what might have led to the fact she would even entertain picking up at your suticase's packing methodology?

Packing it unevenly and not methodically so that it doesn't close correctly. Pathetic and I can't believe we actually had a conversation about it.

I warned her during the first few weeks of dating that I wouldn't tolerate controlling or nagging behaviour. But it's crept in, along with dismissive behaviour, and it's more than likely (though I was conscious of it and tried to temper it), I wasn't forceful enough when I saw the first signs of it.

Good example. You should of said "A real woman would have packed it for me". Would that stir some drama? Oh..yeah. But if you held frame and ignored it she'd have come back trying to qualify herself to you after she calmed down.

Like I said you need next level dread game to keep EE women in check

Just thought I'd give a quick update on this situation. I'm currently going no contact on this girl, or very minimal contact, and disentangling myself from the relationship.

Since I last posted I gave it my best shot, but the red flags continued to pile up and my mental health started to suffer. I have never before had this kind of turmoil with any girl in all of my 39 years. Looking into her behaviour I've realised she suffers from a low to mid-level narcissistic personality disorder. The relationship devolved into her guilt-tripping me constantly about us not living together - she was adamant about her joining me here in my own country ("but you promised!"), and though I told her we can reassess that later, the guilt tripping never stopped.

During one of our last conversations, just before I was due to fly out to see her, she informed me I had to come up with a plan for us to be together, and I realised then that my trip would be a week-long exercise in emotional blackmail. In her defence she said she did not want a long-distance relationship, but making such life-changing decisions at the four-month mark is unwise.

She was also recently prescribed anti-anxiety/anti-depression medication, which is something I can sympathise with, but can't get involved with. She also divulged she had been on them before.

The nasty, abusive comments continued, and asserting my boundaries didn't work. She occasionally apologised when she had calmed down, but I found myself on eggshells and being stressed in her company.

She switched back to sweet mode a few days ago when she realised she had went too far again and I may not get on a plane to come and see her, but I stuck to my decision and am cutting her out.

These 4 months have been an intense education and have made me wiser. I can only hope now she goes quietly away and doesn't do anything drastic.

Next!! No woman is worth emotional burden

Pushy then Sweet....or in other words PUSH/PULL.......to a lesser degree manipulated, guilted and shamed

One day hot and the next day cold is not the foundation for a LTR with any chick unless your both schizoprenic

She's 26 and allowed a certain degree of pushiness or frustration and impatience because of the country she's in, and the cultural expectations she puts on herself and wanting her dream/short term plans/goals NOW.

A key part to any relationship is respect for one another, At some point you may realize that your being played with.
This goes straight to resentment towards the player and further weakens the relationship. Doubts on the relationship crop up and questions of honesty/sincerity spring forth.

It's typical western relationship stuff on steroids.

Krakow may be like Kiev. My opinion on Kiev is girls try hard to get to the right side of the city for a better life...and failure to get there means living a failed life ghettoized on the left side of the city or stuck in surrounding towns.

Regardless you've done the weighing, measuring, testing it's not going to work it's all downside with few upsides and at 39 not a long term time investment. Pat yourself on the back for trying......and be grateful you dodged a bullet.

Quote: (01-21-2018 09:08 AM)griffinmill Wrote:  

The relationship devolved into her guilt-tripping me constantly about us not living together - she was adamant about her joining me here in my own country ("but you promised!"), and though I told her we can reassess that later, the guilt tripping never stopped.

OP — be honest about these two things:

1) how eager were you to bring her back to the UK?

2) How many other guys has she done this to?

Quote: (01-21-2018 12:29 PM)JWLZG Wrote:  

Quote: (01-21-2018 09:08 AM)griffinmill Wrote:  

The relationship devolved into her guilt-tripping me constantly about us not living together - she was adamant about her joining me here in my own country ("but you promised!"), and though I told her we can reassess that later, the guilt tripping never stopped.

OP — be honest about these two things:

1) how eager were you to bring her back to the UK?

2) How many other guys has she done this to?

1) Not eager at all after I started seeing the red flags.

2) No idea.

The plan was, she was going to Paris. I alluded to joining her. When I started to back away from that idea she was not a happy bunny.

It was also her idea to visit with me at my home for a few weeks before Paris - okay, fine, but she made me nervous when she suggested staying here if she liked it.

Since our conversations never really involved anything about me (asking about me, asking about my life, my day) and there was silence when I wasn't asking her questions, I wondered if I was just a utility to her.

She has texted 60 times since this morning with all kinds of threats.